Roe v Wade is on deck

[Metaphor]

I'm saying what you said is clearly false. You have the right to smoke weed in some states but not in others, for example.

We're kinda working on that one, but when it comes to the others we've already sorted out...

By your (apparent) reasoning, the right to vote can be selectively granted depending upon what state you live in or what color your skin might be.

Well, no. Not if something in the Constitution forbids the restriction of voting rights like that.

A state has a "right" to restrict the rights of individuals as they see fit, so whether it is weed or boogers or showing up at the polls, the state rules supreme.

Isn't that exactly the case in the United States? The states have the power to make some things illegal, unless the Constitution forbids the states from making it illegal.

It gets real tedious trying to explain US Constitutional Law to someone that has a very very limited (non-existent) understanding of it.

What have I said that is wrong?

After the Civil War and the 14th Amendment was added to the Constitution, the reservations in the Constitution started getting applied to the states via Due Process. This was a long road. It started in 1897 with eminent domain, free speech in the 1920s, 1960s with double jeopardy, etc...

Then there is the "right to privacy", which I feel is implied in the 4th Amendment, but it takes until 1891 for SCOTUS to begin viewing it as something that does exist. And the 9th Amendment explicitly points out that just because it isn't mentioned specifically, doesn't mean it isn't a right. That fear was one reason the Bill of Rights almost never existed, because the Founding Fathers feared its use would be perverted.

So, this isn't as simple as "the states have the power to make some things illegal, unless the Constitution forbids the states". The Constitution does not explicitly state that the 14th Amendment means states have to abide by Constitutional Protections.

The States have the power to make some things illegal. State law doesn't override Federal law and Federal law can't override the Constitution.

So unless something is unconstitutional for States to forbid, people in different States can have different rights.

All of this talk about this ban being for the health of the woman is flat out lie. And the care of babies post birth by most pro-lifers is grossly deficient in empathy.

I have not made any arguments for or against allowing abortion. All I pointed out was that you can have the right to do something in one state and you may not have the right to do it in another.

 

[Hermit]

Death cult.

or its a person with a sign

There is the whole technicality of not knowing what she believes. This could be a daughter of a rape victim. It could be a pro-lifer being sarcastic.

I don't understand why everyone seems to think that the text on the sign in that picture is in any way related to what the person in the picture had written on her sign.

It screams fake to me. It would take five minutes to make a copy of that picture with completely different text on the sign.

The woman in the picture is Fallon O'Connor. Last Tuesday she participated in a protest against the leaked opinion regarding the abortion issue. The protest took place in Milwaukee, Philadelphia. Ximena Conde, a reporter employed by The Philadelphia Inquirer, posted it, and pictures of several other participants along with brief comments about them and what they said, on Twitter. Conde also wrote a brief article about the protest, which was published by the paper she works for.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The abortion pill. This will be an interesting aside... except if the State has the "best interests" in a "woman's health", SCOTUS will probably vote 5-4 to allow bans on the abortion pill as well. Then we move to the daily use pill. Rinse, wash, repeat. Probably draw the line on condoms.

Why stop there? They're after the right to privacy--that would take out everything based on it.

Because condoms don't impact the internal body and the state has no viable interest in regulating it, unless they try a make an argument that they are regulating unsafe behavior, which would be extraordinarily dangerous of them... and I'm moving to Canada.

It is hard to tell just how hard they attack the right to privacy. Recriminalizing gay sex, I don't see it. I think that'd be a bridge too far for even this court. But gay marriage? It seems too radical, but this court and how Alito is butchering the Constitution and precedence, maybe not too radical for them. What makes things hard to read is that their reversal of Roe v Wade is chopping away at a lot of different things and without much reason but what they read on Focus on Family's website.

Griswold v. Connecticut - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That's the decision that made contraception legal and it's based on the right to privacy.

 

[Angry Floof]

 

[steve_bank]

Polls show at least a majoroty support for abortion.

The reponse shoud be voting for candidates who support abortion.

There is a Senate republican propsed law with a loop hole that allows individual providers to opt out of performing abortions. Of coyrse the democrats will never consider any kind of compromise bill for a federal law, and so the problem continues.

Democrats will have to wait for SCOTUS to have a liberal majority and have it change yet again.

While today the left is railing against the right on the court, FDR tried to pack the Supreme Court. Nothing new today, it is busyness as usual. Note that the republicans refused to have heairngs for Obama late term appointees.

Judicial Procedures Reform Bill of 1937 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In the Judiciary Act of 1869, Congress had established that the Supreme Court would consist of the chief justice and eight associate justices. During Roosevelt's first term, the Supreme Court struck down several New Deal measures as being unconstitutional. Roosevelt sought to reverse this by changing the makeup of the court through the appointment of new additional justices who he hoped would rule that his legislative initiatives did not exceed the constitutional authority of the government. Since the U.S. Constitution does not define the Supreme Court's size, Roosevelt believed it was within the power of Congress to change it. Members of both parties viewed the legislation as an attempt to stack the court, and many Democrats, including Vice President John Nance Garner, opposed it.[4][5] The bill came to be known as Roosevelt's "court-packing plan", a phrase coined by Edward Rumely.[2]

 

[Toni]

View attachment 38468

Unfortunately, there are those who would disagree.

 

[ZiprHead]

How many of the women rallying against overturning Roe are over-educated, under-loved millennials who sadly return from protests to a lonely microwave dinner with their cats, and no bumble matches?

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[Ford]

The christian taliban are going to be throwing women in prison and charging them with murder if they are not able to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt it was a miscarriage. Even if they can they will probably still charge the women with murder for a miscarriage. I am truly learning to DESPISE the United States. I want the fuck out of this country.

It isn't enough to fill prisons with the poor and mentally ill. They want to throw women, doctors, nurses, and that friend who drove you to the clinic in prison. What's that? The clinic is in another state where abortion is legal?

Give it time. Their cries of "states rights!" will go right out the fucking window the moment they figure out how to prosecute someone for crossing state lines for an abortion, or they'll bring another case and will leave it to the right wing of the court to decide that "well just like we figured the 4th doesn't really grant a right to privacy, the Supremacy Clause and the 14th Amendment were poorly worded."

And if that sounds crazy, consider this: Republicans are probably gonna win in the mid-terms. Definitely the Senate (they already have a majority with Manchin and Sinema anyway), probably the House, and they will do everything they can to make sure that what little progress has been made in the first 2 years of the Biden administration will be undone, the government will grind to a halt (government shutdowns, every nominee - judicial and otherwise - denied hearings), and will ruin the country so that Trump can triumphantly return. If he doesn't actually win? Get ready for Coup 2.0. They are working on it right now. January 6th was a dry run.

With Trump back in the Oval Office by hook or crook (or both) and the GQP in charge of Congress?

"America: It was fun while it lasted."

 

[ZiprHead]

It isn't enough to fill prisons with the poor and mentally ill. They want to throw women, doctors, nurses, and that friend who drove you to the clinic in prison. What's that? The clinic is in another state where abortion is legal?

The GQP's idea of freedom: Become a mother or become an inmate.

 

[ZiprHead]

Roe V. Wade Spotlights Savita Halappanavar's Death After Abortion Denied

Halappanavar died in Ireland in 2012 after being denied a timely abortion, sparking reforms to the country's abortion laws in the years that followed.

www.newsweek.com

Jo Kaur, founder of the Riaan Research Initiative, a non-profit organization hunting for a cure for rare genetic diseases affecting children, tweeted: "On nights like this I can't help but think of Savita Halappanavar, a beautiful 31 year-old dentist who died at 17 weeks pregnant after being denied an abortion in Ireland because it was illegal then. She died of sepsis bc they wouldn't abort. How many Savitas will die in the US?"

After examination, doctors found that Halappanavar's pregnancy was inevitably going to fail due to complications and she was admitted that same day. On October 22 her water broke but the fetus was not expelled.

On October 23, Halappanavar and her husband asked whether her labor could be induced since they did not want to wait longer than necessary if the pregnancy was to fail anyway. They were told by a consultant that this was not possible under Irish law—they had not identified adequate risk to the patient.

Over time Halappanavar's condition worsened and she was diagnosed with sepsis on October 24. That same day she miscarried and delivered the fetus. She was admitted to an intensive care unit on the morning of October 25, and her health continued to worsen.

Halappanavar died on Sunday, October 28. The cause of her death was documented as multi-organ failure following sepsis and E. coli infection.

A report into the case found that there had been failings in the care that Halappanavar received, including that health staff did not recognize early signs of infection that might have spurred them to terminate pregnancy earlier due to a threat to her life, which would have been permissible according to The Life Institute.

Many women and girls are going to die due to the actions of the "Right To Life" party.

 

[steve_bank]

I would think a woman dying after being denied abortion would lay the grounds for another legal approach. Sue the state for a wrongful death due to denial of life saving medical procedures.

 

[Toni]

I would think a woman dying after being denied abortion would lay the grounds for another legal approach. Sue the state for a wrongful death due to denial of life saving medical procedures.

How very comforting. I wonder how many women would need to die in order to more legislators or courts. Women di d for hundreds of years due to inadequate care related to pregnancy, miscarriage and childbirth, abs the aftermath. Women used to routinely die from mastitis, which is treated with antibiotics these days. It took until 1973 for the US Supreme Court to rule in the Roe V Wade case, a necessity because states refused to allow women to seek appropriate health care.

My mother in law who grew up and raised her young family on NYC’s upper east side, told me of some of her friends who could not face another pregnancy and were turned away by their doctors—only to find the same doctor in the room whose address was provided by a friend of a friend. Oh, some went to other countries but sometimes that was not practical.

In my high school, sometimes girls took a trip to NY to visit an aunt. And some were forced to drop out of high school. The fathers of their babies continued on the basketball team.. a neighbor around the corner had her younger sister from out of town live with her for a summer.

People have not really changed in the last 50 years….

 

[Ford]

Roe V. Wade Spotlights Savita Halappanavar's Death After Abortion Denied

Halappanavar died in Ireland in 2012 after being denied a timely abortion, sparking reforms to the country's abortion laws in the years that followed.

www.newsweek.com

Jo Kaur, founder of the Riaan Research Initiative, a non-profit organization hunting for a cure for rare genetic diseases affecting children, tweeted: "On nights like this I can't help but think of Savita Halappanavar, a beautiful 31 year-old dentist who died at 17 weeks pregnant after being denied an abortion in Ireland because it was illegal then. She died of sepsis bc they wouldn't abort. How many Savitas will die in the US?"

After examination, doctors found that Halappanavar's pregnancy was inevitably going to fail due to complications and she was admitted that same day. On October 22 her water broke but the fetus was not expelled.

On October 23, Halappanavar and her husband asked whether her labor could be induced since they did not want to wait longer than necessary if the pregnancy was to fail anyway. They were told by a consultant that this was not possible under Irish law—they had not identified adequate risk to the patient.

Over time Halappanavar's condition worsened and she was diagnosed with sepsis on October 24. That same day she miscarried and delivered the fetus. She was admitted to an intensive care unit on the morning of October 25, and her health continued to worsen.

Halappanavar died on Sunday, October 28. The cause of her death was documented as multi-organ failure following sepsis and E. coli infection.

A report into the case found that there had been failings in the care that Halappanavar received, including that health staff did not recognize early signs of infection that might have spurred them to terminate pregnancy earlier due to a threat to her life, which would have been permissible according to The Life Institute.

Many women and girls are going to die due to the actions of the "Right To Life" party.

It has never been about the "Right to Life."

Here's a hypothetical that has at least partially already happened. A young woman...17 or so...goes on a trip with her boyfriend. They travel from, say, Florida to Georgia, have a weekend at a nice hotel (her boyfriend just got a really good paying job) and a little while later after missing her period she goes to the Walgreens and gets a test.

She contacts the boyfriend, and (remember, he's got a pretty good job) pays for her to go to the beach for a weekend in Pensacola. Because there's a clinic there. She comes back, it's done, and the few people "in the know" hug the affected party and give assurances that nobody will ever know.

And by "affected party" I mean the boyfriend. He's a Congressman, after all, and this could ruin his career. And that's the thing. When the rubber hits the road...or breaks...suddenly the "right to life" of that precious fetus goes right out the window, and the future or the Congressman (I'm talking about Matt Gaetz, in case you haven't figured it out yet) becomes the primary concern. The traumatized teen girl is an inconvenience, and the priority becomes protecting the man (or high school basketball star) from consequences. All the "but that baby you aborted could have been the next Jesus!" arguments fall away, and the fetus, the young woman, and the "right to life" suddenly becomes the least important thing.

The crazy thing? If this leaked draft turns into an actual ruling, and states like Florida and Texas go whole hog on criminalizing abortion? Matt's teenage girlfriend, the doctor who performed the procedure, and the clinic workers who helped all become criminals, while the young Congressman suffers little more than the indignity of making a teary-eyed confession and asking Jesus for forgiveness.

 

[Toni]

I think the only rational way forward for women is to withhold sex and to be armed at all times to defend against rapists until legislators decide to return to rationality.

BTW, this is a thing that is being talked about.

 

[Elixir]

I think the only rational way forward for women is to withhold sex and to be armed at all times to defend against rapists until legislators decide to return to rationality.

BTW, this is a thing that is being talked about.

A lot of it is gang related, so they need to have the big clip(s).

 

[Angry Floof]

A couple of things for you all to share around.

How to get abortion pills: https://adiaccess.org/

Get help paying for an abortion or get access to an abortion provider: https://abortionfunds.org/

 

[SigmatheZeta]

A couple of things for you all to share around.

How to get abortion pills: https://adiaccess.org/

Get help paying for an abortion or get access to an abortion provider: https://abortionfunds.org/

Yep. That sort of stuff was being circulated widely among Irish women, too. If you want an idea of how to wage a pro-abortion political movement under oppressive and untenable conditions, then look no further than Ireland. The women there created an underground resistance network that was a sort of insurgency in its own right, and they succeeded at fighting back.

 

[steve_bank]

I would think a woman dying after being denied abortion would lay the grounds for another legal approach. Sue the state for a wrongful death due to denial of life saving medical procedures.

How very comforting. I wonder how many women would need to die in order to more legislators or courts. Women di d for hundreds of years due to inadequate care related to pregnancy, miscarriage and childbirth, abs the aftermath. Women used to routinely die from mastitis, which is treated with antibiotics these days. It took until 1973 for the US Supreme Court to rule in the Roe V Wade case, a necessity because states refused to allow women to seek appropriate health care.

My mother in law who grew up and raised her young family on NYC’s upper east side, told me of some of her friends who could not face another pregnancy and were turned away by their doctors—only to find the same doctor in the room whose address was provided by a friend of a friend. Oh, some went to other countries but sometimes that was not practical.

In my high school, sometimes girls took a trip to NY to visit an aunt. And some were forced to drop out of high school. The fathers of their babies continued on the basketball team.. a neighbor around the corner had her younger sister from out of town live with her for a summer.

People have not really changed in the last 50 years….

More like 50,000 years. Evolution made us horny and capable of conception 24/7. We fuck like rabbits.

From a show on the history of contrceptives in the 19th century it was not uncommon for a woman to get marrid utterly ignorant of sex.

In the 80s a woman who woked with an international birth control said condoms were distributed to some people who for some reason would not use them. It turned out the color of the condoms was a special color to the people. Connecting the color to sex was somehow offensive. Change the condom color and they used them.

To me a large part of the problem is the bizarre twisted views of sex derived from the three Abrahamic relgions. Women as property good for making babies and pleasure and nothing else.

There was a pope who hacked the penis off Vatican statues and put fig laevs on nude paintings.

 

[Copernicus]

Since we are sharing internet memes...