Split Rs vs Ds And The Middle Class - split from RFK -D ???

[RVonse]

His anti-vax position already sounds more like a -R and now this:



Strangely specific numbers...

That anti-vaccine overlap between the far left and right-wings was newness. Almost populist.

There was a time and not that long ago that the Democrat party was more focused on the needs of individuals and working class than powerful pharmaceutical monopolies. Especially poor individuals who had no way to discern what large corporations were really up to. Fast forward to today.... when the Democrat challenger even brings up possible issues regarding possible sub standard vaccines brought out before they were trialed properly.... now that candidate now gets branded by you as a republican right wing kook.

Times really have changed indeed.

 

[bilby]

There was a time and not that long ago that the Democrat party was more focused on the needs of individuals and working class than powerful pharmaceutical monopolies.

Those things need not necessarily be in conflict.

Vaccines aren't a way for greedy manufacturers to fleece unwary consumers; They're a way for manufacturers and consumers to achieve a mutual benefit, by providing protection to the consumer against deadly disease, while also allowing manufacturers to make a small profit.

The assumption that vaccines are not massively beneficial for those who receive them is complete and utter nonsense. It's a bizarrely popular belief, but that's true of a very large fraction of utter nonsense.

The real "problem" with vaccines is that they depend for their effectiveness on being deployed on a population wide basis, so their effectiveness is significantly degraded if lots of people don't get them; And if most people do get them, the benefits are also gained by the few who do not.

This is only a problem if it's combined with a population who believe that their individual rights outweigh their duty to others - that is, if the population has too many selfish people in it.

The GOP has made an absolute fetish of selfishness, and raised it as a virtue supreme amongst all others. This has the direct consequence of risking the lives of millions, as the selfish people refuse to accept even the most trivial amount of discomfort or risk, when to do so would primarily benefit others.

Someone who exhibits this level of hyper-selfishness, by buying into the nonsensical and irrational arguments against vaccination, is positioning himself firmly on the GOP side of the R - D divide, whether he understands that fact or not.

Refusing to be vaccinated, like refusing to pay taxes, is a crime against society as a whole, and yet is considered by the hyper-selfish to be not only acceptable, but even laudable. This failure to comprehend the very system upon which they depend for their ongoing comfort and safety is the hallmark of the modern Republican Party, and is the reason why the guy they are most likely to put up as their candidate for President is a guy who has committed the most severe possible federal crimes, and who firmly believes that those crimes were completely justified because they benefited him personally.

 

[Ford]

There was a time and not that long ago that the Democrat party was more focused on the needs of individuals and working class than powerful pharmaceutical monopolies. Especially poor individuals who had no way to discern what large corporations were really up to.

And the Republicans are suddenly the crusaders against powerful business interests? The Republican Party is suddenly on the side of the poor folks against the big corporations? An interesting take, to say the least.

Tell me...if the right is such an ardent champion of "the little guy," then how are they doing in their fight against big oil? What's their plan to cut off tax dollars from those poor folks flowing to the military industrial complex and defense contractors that massively overcharge for equipment that the kids of those poor people and little guys use when they sign up for military service?

What is the GOP doing to reign in health care costs for the "needs of individuals and the working class?"

To paraphrase your above quote, there NEVER was a time - not long ago or recently - where the right wing in this country was focused on the needs of working class individuals over the desires of the capitalist class. In fact, conservatives have always consistently fought for the rights of the owners of capital against the rights of "the little guy."

Yes, the "Democrat party" (such a childish slur) has been far less than perfect. Moneyed interests have corrupted what was once a party of the people. Yet there are elements within that end of the political spectrum that are attempting to pull the party back to being on the side of the working man. "The left" is still out there.

Your side of the political fence doesn't give a company fuck about the needs of the working class. They never have.

 

[scombrid]

brings up possible issues regarding possible sub standard vaccines b

He didn't just bring up "possible issues" he made specific claims of deliberate harm, spread unfounded conspiracy theories, and has been anti-vax since well before covid. He isn't doing anything good for the needs of individuals or the working man by grifting off of deliberate medical disinformation.

 

[RVonse]

There was a time and not that long ago that the Democrat party was more focused on the needs of individuals and working class than powerful pharmaceutical monopolies. Especially poor individuals who had no way to discern what large corporations were really up to.

Your side of the political fence doesn't give a company fuck about the needs of the working class. They never have.

Yes, I agree. But where does the middle class go when the leadership of the Democrat party calls them deplorable and spews hate towards them. At least the Republicans are willing to let them sit at their table.....they aren't feeding them yet but they aren't calling them names and belittling them either.

Hillary Clinton is a lot of things but she was not dumb with polling. She knew the middle class is no longer a majority (since 2015) so they can all go and eat shit for what she cared about. https://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/10/middle-class-americans-no-longer-majority.html

Today the Democrats represent the ultra rich, the ultra poor, and the non US citizens of Latin America. The Republicans represent the ultra rich and the other people (rich or poor) who still want personal freedom. Its not the perfect fit for what used to be the middle class...but its the only place they can go.

 

[RVonse]

brings up possible issues regarding possible sub standard vaccines b

He didn't just bring up "possible issues" he made specific claims of deliberate harm, spread unfounded conspiracy theories, and has been anti-vax since well before covid. He isn't doing anything good for the needs of individuals or the working man by grifting off of deliberate medical disinformation.

That is what the corporate sponsored media will tell you. And anyone who disagrees with their narrative will always be called a conspiracy theorist. It's their brain dead slogan borrowed from the CIA they like to parrot......just like "no ones above the law!"

 

[RVonse]

There was a time and not that long ago that the Democrat party was more focused on the needs of individuals and working class than powerful pharmaceutical monopolies.

Refusing to be vaccinated, like refusing to pay taxes,

Even now you don't know this. Because even now, after the pandemic is over with we actually do not have any valid data with regards showing how un-vaccinated populations did against the vaccinated ones. I'm guessing the Amish (who were not vaccinated) had far fewer deaths than anyone else. I'm guessing young age and fitness had a lot more to do with survival than a vaccine. But we will never know either way for sure since this is a political hot topic.

 

[Ford]

There was a time and not that long ago that the Democrat party was more focused on the needs of individuals and working class than powerful pharmaceutical monopolies. Especially poor individuals who had no way to discern what large corporations were really up to.

Your side of the political fence doesn't give a company fuck about the needs of the working class. They never have.

Yes, I agree. But where does the middle class go when the leadership of the Democrat party calls them deplorable and spews hate towards them. At least the Republicans are willing to let them sit at their table.....they aren't feeding them yet but they aren't calling them names and belittling them either.

Hillary Clinton is a lot of things but she was not dumb with polling. She knew the middle class is no longer a majority (since 2015) so they can all go and eat shit for what she cared about. https://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/10/middle-class-americans-no-longer-majority.html

Today the Democrats represent the ultra rich, the ultra poor, and the citizens of Latin America. The Republicans represent the ultra rich and the other people (rich or poor) that still want freedom. Its not a perfect fit for what used to be the middle class...but its the only place they can go.

Jesus, you didn't just drink the Kool-Aid. You bought stock in the company.

The DemocratIC party didn't call the middle class "deplorables." That was Clinton's term for the blindly loyal dumb fuck Trump supporters who can't seem to grasp that the guy who sold himself as "like, really rich" was grifting them for money they can ill afford.

And Republicans give them a seat at the table? What planet are you talking about here?

Back in the middle of the last decade, I (a middle class voter) sent a letter to my Congressman to complain about a piece of legislation he supported. Two months later, I got a robo-signed form letter back thanking me for my "support of this important piece of legislation." I immediately sent an email to the campaign of his Democratic opponent, and a staffer got back to me within 24 hours. We exchanged a couple of emails and the candidate won my support and the subsequent election. He was a decent public servant. A few years later I met the previous guy, and he was a pretentious, preening douchenozzle.

I had another exchange with the daughter of Arizona's late Senator McCain. In it, she tried to make the case that her father was a man of the people, because I could go see him at a town hall. I pointed out that while us average middle class folks might be able to get a chance to ask a question once a year at such an event, if I had the means to write a big enough check, I'd get a one on one meeting with the Senator. These encounters are consistent with my other interactions with politicians over the years. Republicans are tools of the rich who don't have time for you unless you're a millionaire, while Democrats are more than happy to talk to "the little people." My current state representative won my vote by knocking on my door (in my middle class neighborhood) and talking with me one on one about the issues. I only met Republicans when they were at my studio to promote something.

And get the fuck out of here with that "Republicans still want freedom" bullshit. The leader of the Republican party is currently under federal indictment for attempting to illegally seize power and install himself as a de facto dictator. The rank and file among the GOP still overwhelmingly support him. They're like "a dictator? That's what we want! Tell us what to do, daddy!"

 

[Politesse]

I had another exchange with the daughter of Arizona's late Senator McCain. In it, she tried to make the case that her father was a man of the people, because I could go see him at a town hall. I pointed out that while us average middle class folks might be able to get a chance to ask a question once a year at such an event, if I had the means to write a big enough check, I'd get a one on one meeting with the Senator. These encounters are consistent with my other interactions with politicians over the years. Republicans are tools of the rich who don't have time for you unless you're a millionaire, while Democrats are more than happy to talk to "the little people." My current state representative won my vote by knocking on my door (in my middle class neighborhood) and talking with me one on one about the issues. I only met Republicans when they were at my studio to promote something.

Ooh, I know someone who exemplifies that in spades, it's exactly how he manages to hold on to his seat in a Republican majority voting district. Elected 2008 and still there. Not because he caves and turns traitor to his party on every significant vote like some other congresspersons I could name, but because people know him, and know he'll listen if they really have something they want to talk to him about. His Republican predecessor seldom left Washington, and his office in town was almost always closed. Whereas Josh or at least one of his staff seem to be at every civic event, and opportunities to hash things over with him abound. Consequently people have gotten to know his staff pretty well also. It must be exhausting to keep up the game, but it's a show of fundamental priorities - and principles - that few manage to match.

 

[Patooka]

There was a time and not that long ago that the Democrat party was more focused on the needs of individuals and working class than powerful pharmaceutical monopolies.

Refusing to be vaccinated, like refusing to pay taxes,

Even now you don't know this. Because even now, after the pandemic is over with we actually do not have any valid data with regards showing how un-vaccinated populations did against the vaccinated ones. I'm guessing the Amish (who were not vaccinated) had far fewer deaths than anyone else. I'm guessing young age and fitness had a lot more to do with survival than a vaccine. But we will never know either way for sure since this is a political hot topic.

Can you please stop with the bad faith "we don't know for sure" bullshit argument. You do this all the time. How do you know if jamming a nail file into your dick hole is going to hurt unless you actually do it? How can you really know for sure?

Being vaccinated improves your chances. Fuck off with your "can't tell for sure" bullshit.

 

[scombrid]

brings up possible issues regarding possible sub standard vaccines b

He didn't just bring up "possible issues" he made specific claims of deliberate harm, spread unfounded conspiracy theories, and has been anti-vax since well before covid. He isn't doing anything good for the needs of individuals or the working man by grifting off of deliberate medical disinformation.

That is what the corporate sponsored media will tell you. And anyone who disagrees with their narrative will always be called a conspiracy theorist. It's their brain dead slogan borrowed from the CIA they like to parrot......just like "no ones above the law!"

I don’t follow the media. I can read and evaluated his claims for myself.

 

[Rhea]

But where does the middle class go when the leadership of the Democrat party calls them deplorable and spews hate towards them.

1. It appears that you do not know that a significant part of the middle class is democrats. What is it that made you think that?
2. It appears that when Hillary Clinton said that half of the republican party was acting badly (and yes she said half, she never said all) that you thought she was talking about you. Why do you identify with the part of the Republican party that is okay with grabbing women and mocking the disabled and wearing “fuck your feelings” tee shirts? My husband is a republican and he definitely did not think she was talking about him - why do you?
3. It appears that you have no issue with Romney’s “47%” remark nor Trump’s, “I love the uneducated” remark. Why do you not lament that the Republican party is mocking the middle class?
4. It appears that you like using the childish and juvenile mocking term “Democrat” Party when you know as well as I do that it is “Democratic Party.” Why do you like being seen as someone who bis a namecaller - just like Hillary?

Hillary was never talking about ”the middle class” and the rest of the middle class knows that.

 

[RVonse]

There was a time and not that long ago that the Democrat party was more focused on the needs of individuals and working class than powerful pharmaceutical monopolies. Especially poor individuals who had no way to discern what large corporations were really up to.

Your side of the political fence doesn't give a company fuck about the needs of the working class. They never have.

Yes, I agree. But where does the middle class go when the leadership of the Democrat party calls them deplorable and spews hate towards them. At least the Republicans are willing to let them sit at their table.....they aren't feeding them yet but they aren't calling them names and belittling them either.

Hillary Clinton is a lot of things but she was not dumb with polling. She knew the middle class is no longer a majority (since 2015) so they can all go and eat shit for what she cared about. https://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/10/middle-class-americans-no-longer-majority.html

Today the Democrats represent the ultra rich, the ultra poor, and the citizens of Latin America. The Republicans represent the ultra rich and the other people (rich or poor) that still want freedom. Its not a perfect fit for what used to be the middle class...but its the only place they can go.

And get the fuck out of here with that "Republicans still want freedom" bullshit. The leader of the Republican party is currently under federal indictment for attempting to illegally seize power and install himself as a de facto dictator. The rank and file among the GOP still overwhelmingly support him. They're like "a dictator? That's what we want! Tell us what to do, daddy!"

But how is Trump going to jail relevant to an individual's personal freedom and/or liberty? Trump is just one person who according to our current law should still be presumed innocent.

What matters to individual freedom is the Constitution's limiting role of government powers and maintaining our bill of rights (1st and 2nd amendments). This is what the Republicans try to protect and what the Democrats don't want. Clearly the Democrats are the party we look to for censorship and cancellation of everyone and to "take away all the gun"s. And I'm not even going to say its a bad thing for most people NOT to have individual freedom, there are a lot of people who don't even want it.

But you can not say with a straight face that the Republicans are not trying to protect these freedoms better then the Democrats.

 

[Ford]

There was a time and not that long ago that the Democrat party was more focused on the needs of individuals and working class than powerful pharmaceutical monopolies. Especially poor individuals who had no way to discern what large corporations were really up to.

Your side of the political fence doesn't give a company fuck about the needs of the working class. They never have.

Yes, I agree. But where does the middle class go when the leadership of the Democrat party calls them deplorable and spews hate towards them. At least the Republicans are willing to let them sit at their table.....they aren't feeding them yet but they aren't calling them names and belittling them either.

Hillary Clinton is a lot of things but she was not dumb with polling. She knew the middle class is no longer a majority (since 2015) so they can all go and eat shit for what she cared about. https://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/10/middle-class-americans-no-longer-majority.html

Today the Democrats represent the ultra rich, the ultra poor, and the citizens of Latin America. The Republicans represent the ultra rich and the other people (rich or poor) that still want freedom. Its not a perfect fit for what used to be the middle class...but its the only place they can go.

And get the fuck out of here with that "Republicans still want freedom" bullshit. The leader of the Republican party is currently under federal indictment for attempting to illegally seize power and install himself as a de facto dictator. The rank and file among the GOP still overwhelmingly support him. They're like "a dictator? That's what we want! Tell us what to do, daddy!"

But how is Trump going to jail relevant to my personal individual freedom and/or liberty? Trump is just one person who according to our current law is still presumed innocent. What matters to individual freedom is the Constitution's limiting of government powers and maintaining our bill of rights (1st and 2nd amendments). This is what the Republicans try to protect and what the Democrats don't want. Clearly the Democrats are the party we look to censor and cancel everyone and "take away all the gun"s. And I'm not even going to say its a bad thing for most people NOT to have individual freedom because a lot of them don't even want it.

But you can not say with a straight face that the Republicans are not trying to protect these freedoms better then the Democrats.

Wow. You really don't get it, do you?

At the moment, Fuckface Von Clownstick is - as you say - just one person who is presumed innocent. Yet the crimes (plural) he is charged with are - not to put too fine a point on it - him attempting to overthrow that Constitution limiting government powers and maintaining the Bill of Rights (and there are 10 Amendments, not just 2). He knew he lost the election. Let me type that slowly so you can understand:


He knew that he lost the election. He didn't give a fuck.


He instructed his people to figure out a way he could stay in office despite the clear message from the voters that said "we no longer want you to be President." Generally speaking, elected officials who lose elections and then attempt to stay in office in opposition of the will of the voters are not exactly amenable to the rights of the people, the right to choose their leaders included.

Again...the voters (a wide majority of them) said "go away, we don't want you" and Trump said "fuck you." At the time, he was still ensconced in the White House, and it was only our Constitution limiting government powers (specifically those of the Executive Branch) that led to him being more or less forcibly removed from that building. What part of this do you not understand?

The Democrats rightly impeached him over this. He is rightly being prosecuted for these crimes. And yes...I can say with a straight face that the Republicans are not trying to protect our freedoms. Trump - the only President who has refused to step down after losing an election - is the far and away favorite to be the Republican nominee for President in 2024. The GOP is throwing their full weight behind him even as he faces trial for literally attempting to overthrow our democratic republic.


But please...explain to me how you figure Trump overthrowing the US Constitution was a great idea. I'll wait.

 

[ZiprHead]

There was a time and not that long ago that the Democrat party was more focused on the needs of individuals and working class than powerful pharmaceutical monopolies.

Refusing to be vaccinated, like refusing to pay taxes,

Even now you don't know this. Because even now, after the pandemic is over with we actually do not have any valid data with regards showing how un-vaccinated populations did against the vaccinated ones. I'm guessing the Amish (who were not vaccinated) had far fewer deaths than anyone else. I'm guessing young age and fitness had a lot more to do with survival than a vaccine. But we will never know either way for sure since this is a political hot topic.

We do know that Republicans die at a 43% higher rate than Democrats because Republicans believed their god-king when he said vaccines are bad.

 

[TomC]

This is what the Republicans try to protect and what the Democrats don't want.

I'm positive that the folks who attacked EC to overturn the Constitutional election results were and mostly still are Trump supporting Republicans.
Are you claiming differently?
Tom

 

[RVonse]

There was a time and not that long ago that the Democrat party was more focused on the needs of individuals and working class than powerful pharmaceutical monopolies. Especially poor individuals who had no way to discern what large corporations were really up to.

Your side of the political fence doesn't give a company fuck about the needs of the working class. They never have.

Yes, I agree. But where does the middle class go when the leadership of the Democrat party calls them deplorable and spews hate towards them. At least the Republicans are willing to let them sit at their table.....they aren't feeding them yet but they aren't calling them names and belittling them either.

Hillary Clinton is a lot of things but she was not dumb with polling. She knew the middle class is no longer a majority (since 2015) so they can all go and eat shit for what she cared about. https://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/10/middle-class-americans-no-longer-majority.html

Today the Democrats represent the ultra rich, the ultra poor, and the citizens of Latin America. The Republicans represent the ultra rich and the other people (rich or poor) that still want freedom. Its not a perfect fit for what used to be the middle class...but its the only place they can go.

And get the fuck out of here with that "Republicans still want freedom" bullshit. The leader of the Republican party is currently under federal indictment for attempting to illegally seize power and install himself as a de facto dictator. The rank and file among the GOP still overwhelmingly support him. They're like "a dictator? That's what we want! Tell us what to do, daddy!"

But how is Trump going to jail relevant to my personal individual freedom and/or liberty? Trump is just one person who according to our current law is still presumed innocent. What matters to individual freedom is the Constitution's limiting of government powers and maintaining our bill of rights (1st and 2nd amendments). This is what the Republicans try to protect and what the Democrats don't want. Clearly the Democrats are the party we look to censor and cancel everyone and "take away all the gun"s. And I'm not even going to say its a bad thing for most people NOT to have individual freedom because a lot of them don't even want it.

But you can not say with a straight face that the Republicans are not trying to protect these freedoms better then the Democrats.

Wow. You really don't get it, do you?

At the moment, Fuckface Von Clownstick is - as you say - just one person who is presumed innocent. Yet the crimes (plural) he is charged with are - not to put too fine a point on it - him attempting to overthrow that Constitution limiting government powers and maintaining the Bill of Rights (and there are 10 Amendments, not just 2). He knew he lost the election. Let me type that slowly so you can understand:


He knew that he lost the election. He didn't give a fuck.


He instructed his people to figure out a way he could stay in office despite the clear message from the voters that said "we no longer want you to be President." Generally speaking, elected officials who lose elections and then attempt to stay in office in opposition of the will of the voters are not exactly amenable to the rights of the people, the right to choose their leaders included.

Again...the voters (a wide majority of them) said "go away, we don't want you" and Trump said "fuck you." At the time, he was still ensconced in the White House, and it was only our Constitution limiting government powers (specifically those of the Executive Branch) that led to him being more or less forcibly removed from that building. What part of this do you not understand?

The Democrats rightly impeached him over this. He is rightly being prosecuted for these crimes. And yes...I can say with a straight face that the Republicans are not trying to protect our freedoms. Trump - the only President who has refused to step down after losing an election - is the far and away favorite to be the Republican nominee for President in 2024. The GOP is throwing their full weight behind him even as he faces trial for literally attempting to overthrow our democratic republic.


But please...explain to me how you figure Trump overthrowing the US Constitution was a great idea. I'll wait.

If he did what you accuse him then I agree.

 

[ZiprHead]

If he did what you accuse him then I agree.

You do know every witness that testified against Trump is a Republican, right?

 

[Ford]

If he did what you accuse him then I agree.

It's not me that's doing the accusing. See, this is where our constitutional system of government comes into play. I would suggest you read the indictments. Trump's own defense attorney said - on live television no less - that the plan was to throw out the slate of electors that the states had sent to Washington and (for lack of a better term) have a "do over" where Trump won.

 

[ZiprHead]

If he did what you accuse him then I agree.

It's not me that's doing the accusing. See, this is where our constitutional system of government comes into play. I would suggest you read the indictments. Trump's own defense attorney said - on live television no less - that the plan was to throw out the slate of electors that the states had sent to Washington and (for lack of a better term) have a "do over" where Trump won.

They even posted their fraudulent documents online for all to see.