Special Counsel investigation of Trump part 2

[LoAmmo]

I also think he's trying to trigger another attempt at overthrowing the government. He thinks he would be made king or something like it. But also: the electorate rejected me so I'll burn the place down. But mostly he's in it for the attention and $$.

Yup. He’s still chasing ratings, as if he’s still a reality-show star. And maybe he is, at that.

If so, special bonus points for getting thrown in the slammer by a black, female, Obama-appointed judge—who, in a gift clearly sent from either Heaven or central casting, is a fucking IMMIGRANT from one o’ them shithole countries, into this once-proud nation!!1!!

Tune in!! Must See!! Will Be Wild!!

 

[Shadowy Man]

But it’s not going to happen spontaneously. Despite what they would want you to believe Jan 6 uprising was not spontaneous. The question now is does he have enough people organized enough to foment another attack? And is there a good enough target like the Jan 6 electoral count procedure to rally around and make happen?

 

[LoAmmo]

But it’s not going to happen spontaneously. Despite what they would want you to believe Jan 6 uprising was not spontaneous. The question now is does he have enough people organized enough to foment another attack?

I guess the short answer is, “Jesus, I hope not.”

Realistically, all of these very public Jan 6 verdicts and sentences surely have had at least *some* suppressive effect on the Right’s proclivities to “take the fight to the streets.”
Unless you’re one of the true, dyed-in-the-wool nut jobs, you’ll probably be content to wear your little “TRUMP WON” hat to Home Depot, and nod your head along with Sean Hannity from the safety of your home, rather than do actual violence in his service. As long as those Republicans far outnumber the genuine crazies, democracy has a future in America.

And is there a good enough target like the Jan 6 electoral count procedure to rally around and make happen?

I hope not, and I think not. They may have shot their wad at the Capitol.

One would think the “next best thing” might be all these arraignment courthouses, but…the MAGA response there has been decidedly spotty and unresponsive. Of course, security has been very visibly on guard for attempted fuckery on these occasions, leading perhaps to the meek protests that one might even call…snowflaky.

 

[Shadowy Man]

But it’s not going to happen spontaneously. Despite what they would want you to believe Jan 6 uprising was not spontaneous. The question now is does he have enough people organized enough to foment another attack?

I guess the short answer is, “Jesus, I hope not.”

Realistically, all of these very public Jan 6 verdicts and sentences surely have had at least *some* suppressive effect on the Right’s proclivities to “take the fight to the streets.”
Unless you’re one of the true, dyed-in-the-wool nut jobs, you’ll probably be content to wear your little “TRUMP WON” hat to Home Depot, and nod your head along with Sean Hannity from the safety of your home, rather than do actual violence in his service. As long as those Republicans far outnumber the genuine crazies, democracy has a future in America.

And is there a good enough target like the Jan 6 electoral count procedure to rally around and make happen?

I hope not, and I think not. They may have shot their wad at the Capitol.

One would think the “next best thing” might be all these arraignment courthouses, but…the MAGA response there has been decidedly spotty and unresponsive. Of course, security has been very visibly on guard for attempted fuckery on these occasions, leading perhaps to the meek protests that one might even call…snowflaky.

The Jan 6 assault had a very specific goal, which was just a part of the plan, not the plan itself. That is, they intended to delay the counting of electoral votes to allow for enough time for one of their other actions to take effect, such as utilizing the fake electors. I don't actually think the assault itself was an insurrection, per se; that is, I don't think the people who went in to the Capitol intended to themselves become the new government, but their actions were in furtherance of a coup attempt that would have happened on more legalistic grounds.

What would be the goal of any attack now? Assault a courthouse? For what? To kidnap or kill a judge? There are more judges that can oversee the cases. To "rescue" Trump? Does he want to be a fugitive? There are no levers of government at play here; I don't see what they could accomplish. Perhaps they could intimidate the prosecution with terrorism, but then we'd have the government negotiating with terrorists. Maybe just to try to force a delay, which ultimately is Trump's only play. If he can delay long enough to win another election he can corrupt the government and make this all go away.

 

[Elixir]

But it’s not going to happen spontaneously. Despite what they would want you to believe Jan 6 uprising was not spontaneous. The question now is does he have enough people organized enough to foment another attack?

I guess the short answer is, “Jesus, I hope not.”

Realistically, all of these very public Jan 6 verdicts and sentences surely have had at least *some* suppressive effect on the Right’s proclivities to “take the fight to the streets.”
Unless you’re one of the true, dyed-in-the-wool nut jobs, you’ll probably be content to wear your little “TRUMP WON” hat to Home Depot, and nod your head along with Sean Hannity from the safety of your home, rather than do actual violence in his service. As long as those Republicans far outnumber the genuine crazies, democracy has a future in America.

And is there a good enough target like the Jan 6 electoral count procedure to rally around and make happen?

I hope not, and I think not. They may have shot their wad at the Capitol.

One would think the “next best thing” might be all these arraignment courthouses, but…the MAGA response there has been decidedly spotty and unresponsive. Of course, security has been very visibly on guard for attempted fuckery on these occasions, leading perhaps to the meek protests that one might even call…snowflaky.

The Jan 6 assault had a very specific goal, which was just a part of the plan, not the plan itself. That is, they intended to delay the counting of electoral votes to allow for enough time for one of their other actions to take effect, such as utilizing the fake electors. I don't actually think the assault itself was an insurrection, per se; that is, I don't think the people who went in to the Capitol intended to themselves become the new government, but their actions were in furtherance of a coup attempt that would have happened on more legalistic grounds.

What would be the goal of any attack now? Assault a courthouse? For what? To kidnap or kill a judge? There are more judges that can oversee the cases. To "rescue" Trump? Does he want to be a fugitive? There are no levers of government at play here; I don't see what they could accomplish. Perhaps they could intimidate the prosecution with terrorism, but then we'd have the government negotiating with terrorists. Maybe just to try to force a delay, which ultimately is Trump's only play. If he can delay long enough to win another election he can corrupt the government and make this all go away.

I agree that the lunatic fringe shot their collective wad on 1/6. Trump's chagrin at his inability to move people to further violence in defense of his criminal career, is more than evident. This is a level of frustration that is going to keep growing, along with the extreme nature of his rhetoric.
This afternoon, his lawyer goons are ordered to give their response to the prosecution's request for a protective order. Obviously the "1A" red herring isn't gonna swim, so a protective order will likely be given, tailored to ensure that any violation thereof will have to be so blatant as to be undeniable. IOW, it will proscribe stuff that Trump is unlikely to do anyway, and Trump will probably be goaded into violating it anyhow. The interesting thing will be how the court responds. On one hand, his continued flouting of the law cannot remain unaddressed, but on the other, it would be counterproductive to provide a point of focus for all the vitriol that is now channeled into unhinged ravings of a terrified lunatic.
That said, I think Hair Furor's ability to get the public to commit the violent crimes on his behalf, is greatly diminished at this point and will continue to decline as the net tightens, protective order or not.

 

[ZiprHead]

I thought for sure there was a thread here about having this trial on tv but I cannot find it.

I saw Glen Kirshner on tv this morning. He made the case that it should be. Basically there are laws that give access to victims to attend the trial of their oppressor. He said the victims in this case were all the people that cast ballots in the election. The Trump crime syndicate tried to steal the right to have votes properly recorded and acted upon. Since all the victims cannot be in the courtroom, the trial should be televised.

I agree.

 

[TomC]

Basically there are laws that give access to victims to attend the trial of their oppressor. He said the victims in this case were all the people that cast ballots in the election.

That's pretty weak, IMHO.
I'm not fond of the concept of giving the media access to courtrooms. I don't want our judiciary turned into a reality TV show.

Full disclosure by transcription. Maybe even a fixed camera feed available to anyone. From a bit of distance, with a lag, and someone who can cut the feed temporarily.

But trials on TV sounds like a terrible idea to me. Even worse, trials on internet. There's little worse or more unfair than trial in "the Court of the Internet", which is already happening.
Tom

 

[starwater]

The Watergate hearings were televised. I know they were hearings and not a trial by judge. Seems this may be a precedent though.

 

[TomC]

The Watergate hearings were televised. I know they were hearings and not a trial by judge. Seems this may be a precedent though.

That was also a pre-internet world.
Things are different now.
Tom

 

[pood]

Trump may calculate that he needs to up the ante—create a spectacle that MAGA World can’t simply whine and cry about but, at the end of the day, passively accept. The drama of him being very publicly handcuffed (probably accented by a staged “struggle”) and frog-marched into prison, to a guy who’s always been all about “the show,” probably appeals to him as a way to force the hand of his supporters. He may even be figuring, deep down, that he’s probably going to be sentenced for one of these felonies anyway; so why not try to turn it into a “win.”

An illusory win, like the vast bulk of his “wins,” but, I just wonder if a thought process like that is underpinning these ridiculous posts right in front of a judge who’s warned him explicitly about them.

The Argentine writer Jorge Luis Borges wore this during World War II:

Nazism suffers from unreality, like Erigena's hells. It is uninhabitable; men can only die for it, lie for it, kill and wound for it. No one, in the intimate depths of his being, can wish it to triumph. I shall hazard this conjecture: Hitler wants to be defeated. Hitler is collaborating blindly with the inevitable armies that will annihilate him ...

 

[ZiprHead]

Basically there are laws that give access to victims to attend the trial of their oppressor. He said the victims in this case were all the people that cast ballots in the election.

That's pretty weak, IMHO.
I'm not fond of the concept of giving the media access to courtrooms. I don't want our judiciary turned into a reality TV show.

Full disclosure by transcription. Maybe even a fixed camera feed available to anyone. From a bit of distance, with a lag, and someone who can cut the feed temporarily.

But trials on TV sounds like a terrible idea to me. Even worse, trials on internet. There's little worse or more unfair than trial in "the Court of the Internet", which is already happening.
Tom

What are the reasons you would not like this trial televised?

 

[TomC]

What are the reasons you would not like this trial televised?

I'm not fond of the concept of giving the media access to courtrooms. I don't want our judiciary turned into a reality TV show.

The defendant is not able to do much besides headline a reality TV show. I don't want any of them turned into such, but especially not this one.
Tom

 

[LoAmmo]

Tom, I think there’s potential upside on the other side of that coin—yes, as you say, it’s likely that Trump, being Trump, would want to turn a televised trial into a reality show. Starring Donald J. Trump, natch.
But
1) He wouldn’t be able to. His talking will all be done through lawyers unless, (oh, please, oh, please, oh, please,) Trump’s ego makes him take the stand, hoping to turn it into another well-publicized whine about his imaginary grievances.
Not only would the judge immediately shut that down, but Jack Smith would get the chance to flay him alive on cross-examination if he opens his dumb mouth.

2) Perhaps more importantly, maybe (just maybe) a widely televised trial could be the first real “aha” moment for many of his ignorant supporters to learn just what all this man really did.
They certainly haven’t seen it on Fox News, they don’t watch Rachel Maddow, they sure as hell didn’t watch the J6 hearings, they don’t read critical, reality-based internet sources, but they would be glued to the TV to see their hero sticking it to Teh Deep State.
But they would (likely for the first time) get a very different picture instead.

That…could be worth a lot.

 

[ZiprHead]

Jack Smith Has an Indictment. Trump Has a Massive Plan for Revenge

The thrice-indicted former president and his allies have long been drawing plans to undo Smith’s investigations, as well as to punish everyone involved

www.rollingstone.com

Donald Trump is a long, long way from winning the GOP primary, let alone retaking the White House. But he always has revenge on his mind, and his allies are preparing to use a future administration to not only undo all of Special Counsel Jack Smith’s work — but to take vengeance on Smith, and on virtually everyone else, who dared investigate Trump during his time out of power.

Rosters full of MAGAfied lawyers are being assembled. Plans are being laid for an entire new office of the Justice Department dedicated to “election integrity.” An assembly line is being prepared of revenge-focused “special counsels” and “special prosecutors.” Gameplans for making Smith’s life hell, starting in Jan. 2025, have already been discussed with Trump himself. And a fresh wave of pardons is under consideration for Trump associates, election deniers, and — the former president boasts — for Jan. 6 rioters.

The preparations have been underway since at least last year, with Trump being briefed on the designs by an array of attorneys, political and policy advisers, former administration officials, and other allies. The aim is to build a government-in-waiting with the hard-right infrastructure needed to turn the Justice Department into an instrument of Trump’s agenda, according to five sources familiar with these matters and another two people briefed on them.

Trump’s spokesperson did not respond to a request for comment on this story.

 

[ZiprHead]

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

Let's see! My political Opponent, Crooked Joe Biden, tells Merrick Garland and the DOJ to indict and arrest me on bogus charges and accusations, trying desperately to steal the Election. But that wasn't enough! He now wants Thug Prosecutor, Deranged Jack Smith, to file for a Court Order taking away my first amendment rights, SPEECH. So, based on yet another Radical Left Hoax, I'll be the only "Politician" in American history not allowed to SPEAK. THE NEVER ENDING WITCH HUNT CONTINUES. MAGA!

 

[Toni]

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

Let's see! My political Opponent, Crooked Joe Biden, tells Merrick Garland and the DOJ to indict and arrest me on bogus charges and accusations, trying desperately to steal the Election. But that wasn't enough! He now wants Thug Prosecutor, Deranged Jack Smith, to file for a Court Order taking away my first amendment rights, SPEECH. So, based on yet another Radical Left Hoax, I'll be the only "Politician" in American history not allowed to SPEAK. THE NEVER ENDING WITCH HUNT CONTINUES. MAGA!

I really love how Trump inadvertently types the truth—in this case placing parentheses around politician.

It would be foolish to discount the potential for grace harm should he gain office again. His first term was a practice run. Next time would involve seasoned professional criminals, not rank amateurs.

 

[Elixir]

"I'll be the only "Politician" in American history not allowed to SPEAK" ... or, otherwise, you'll the only criminal defendant EVER given official permission to harass, intimidate and threaten witnesses, judges, jurors, accomplices etc. after establishing a personal record of doing just that. And that, Donald, is what you said you were going to do.
And this BS about it being bad for your so-called campaign? BULLSHIT! These cases ARE your campaign. You do nothing but whine, scream and cry for money. No policies but "lock em all up!" whoever "they" are (most of America), just grievance, promises to destroy our Constitution and legal system to make himself Supreme Dear Leader.

I am really eager to see if the frogs want a king as badly as the ones in the fable.

 

[LoAmmo]

People say that you get the government you deserve; if so, we’re in a world of trouble.

 

[Elixir]

Full disclosure by transcription.

Just what Trump wants.
Nice clean printed words that can be excerpted (and slightly rearranged if necessary) to PROVE BEYOND ANY DOUBT that Trump is innocent, and has been railroaded by Jack Smith whose entire illegal gang needs to be rounded up and shot. PERFECT!
And ya know what? Give him that platform and let him manipulate the EC and that's exactly what he will do.* He would like nothing more than to put some literal heads on literal pikes and show the world what happens when you fuck with The Donald!

* (I.e. get someone else to do - he is a coward himself)

Fears of letting Trump turn a televised trial into a circus, are ridiculous. @TomC, you've never seen a criminal trial in court, right? Perhaps Aileen Cannon would allow it, but no jurist with any experience is going to let that happen. Certainly not Judge Chutkan. Trump will be made to sit down, shut up and wait his turn. Which will never come because his lawyers won't allow it. If he speaks anyway he will be jailed or put in one of those funny cages for the duration of the trial. (THAT would make great TV!)
His lawyers are not going to put their own liberty at risk for the orange turd; they can be counted on to try every dirty trick that can be tried within the constraints of acceptable courtroom behavior, but they aren't going to go full reality TV brawl and end up with their law licenses hanging in the balance.
But the overarching principle should be that we, the victims, have an absolute right to witness the proceedings. There should be suits filed under exactly that premise.

 

[ZiprHead]

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

So now that I have full Subpoena Power because of the Freedom of Speech Sham Indictment by Crooked Joe Biden, Deranged Jack Smith, and the DOJ, it has just been reported that the Unselect January 6th Committee of Political Hacks and Thugs has illegally destroyed their Records and Documents. This is unthinkable, and the Fake Political Indictment against me must be immediately withdrawn. The system is Rigged & Corrupt, very much like the Presidential Election of 2020. We are a

Nation in Decline!

"It has just been reported" is Trump speak for "I'm making it up."