Tennessee School Board Bans Holocaust Graphic Novel

[Trausti]

Anyone have a link to the language of this ban? (I hate doing searches on my phone. )
I'm curious if we applied this new standard to the bible, how it would fair....

It'll fare fine, really.
They left an out.

They'll just say the Bible's depictions of rape, violence, genocide, mass murder, and women with lovers who are hung like a mule is necessary. Not the same thing at all.

I don't see an out here--

But it's GOD'S WORD! And GOD'S WORD tells us that GOD'S WORD is appropriate for instruction. Any word in there would not be in there iff'n it wasn't part of His ineffable plan.
Thus, necessary.

What public school teaches the Bible?

 

[laughing dog]

Anyone have a link to the language of this ban? (I hate doing searches on my phone. )
I'm curious if we applied this new standard to the bible, how it would fair....

It'll fare fine, really.
They left an out.

They'll just say the Bible's depictions of rape, violence, genocide, mass murder, and women with lovers who are hung like a mule is necessary. Not the same thing at all.

I don't see an out here--

But it's GOD'S WORD! And GOD'S WORD tells us that GOD'S WORD is appropriate for instruction. Any word in there would not be in there iff'n it wasn't part of His ineffable plan.
Thus, necessary.

What public school teaches the Bible?

When I was in public school, I had a class "The Bible as Literature".

 

[Keith&Co.]

My wife taught a bible unit in tenth grade English, because so much literature alludes to bible characters, events. The kids cannot parse a reference to Moses, Noah, Sodom, Abraham, or half the Disciples, because they're not attending Sunday School, or they're on their phones if they do.
It's getting to be lije watching a Mel Brooks movie but not knowing about Hitler & The Jews. Or even just tgat Yiddish is a thing. So many jokes fall flat...

 

[Gospel]

I wonder Who TF decided to complain about nude imagery when the holocaust itself makes any image ever appearing on any canvas pale in comparison.

 

[Politesse]

So, its a little hard to take his work too seriously.

Yes, I too assume that because someone is a comical cartoonist in one part of their life, their unrelated autobiographical about the fricking Holocaust and its destruction of their family must be a joke as well.



You ever think about what motivates someone to devote their life to comedy and satire?

 

[Politesse]

I wonder Who TF decided to complain about nude imagery when the holocaust itself makes any image ever appearing on any canvas pale in comparison.

People who know that nudity is a good "hot button" issue they can get people to react to immediately and without thinking. It's like bringing up abortion in relation to stem cell research, you know the link is tenuous but you also know that people already have a firm opinion on the other issue so if you can map it on to yours you have a willing audience for your ideas from the word go. And some people just really lose their shit at the notion that a child might encounter nudity, in any context.

 

[Jarhyn]

If I could just address the elephant in the room, we all know who is solely responsible for this fiasco...

Show

I'll never not want to steal that painting from JO. I want it in my bedroom.

 

[Toni]

Things that are banned in some parts of Tennessee, at least in part:

• Any possibility at all of white people feeling discomfort for historical events or current events;
• Historical memoir depicted by anthropomorphized cats and mice, to include dead mice, nude mouse depicting the author's mother's suicide who was a Holocaust survivor, vulgar words by Nazi cats and other terrible real things that happened such as hanging "mice" and shooting them, ... to be read by ~14 year olds as a means of learning some history in a format that 14 year olds would typically appreciate--a graphic novel, i.e. comic book.

Things that are allowed in Tennessee:

• If you find roadkill, you can pick it up and eat it;
• A 9 year old can go hunting...and what that means is that a 9 year old can be given a rifle or shotgun and kill a wild, naked cat or wild, naked mouse or many of them, not to mention other species of animal typical and allowed to be hunted, and quite a lot of them.

Don't forget: 9 of Tennessee's 95 counties are completely dry.

 

[Patooka]

Don't forget: 9 of Tennessee's 95 counties are completely dry.

Seriously? That's still a thing? I keep getting told by people like Tim Poole and TSwizzle that I'm living in a fascist nation, but trust me - you say "No beer" and the revolution would start and finish real fucking quickly.

I'm starting to have the idea yanks have no fucking idea what freedom really means (Just kidding, many in laws and loved one live in the states, but please fucking lift your game).

 

[TomC]

Don't forget: 9 of Tennessee's 95 counties are completely dry.

Seriously? That's still a thing? I keep getting told by people like Tim Poole and TSwizzle that I'm living in a fascist nation, but trust me - you say "No beer" and the revolution would start and finish real fucking quickly.

I'm starting to have the idea yanks have no fucking idea what freedom really means (Just kidding, many in laws and loved one live in the states, but please fucking lift your game).

Ha ha!
US blue laws are ridiculous.

Only recently did it become legal to sell alcohol on Sunday in Indiana. It's still restricted to noon til 8pm. I was quite annoyed recently. I was in a department store check out line for so long that it was 8:01pm when the clerk scanned my bottle of vino. That was because she's not 21, so couldn't legally scan it herself, had to call a manager to come push it past the scanner. By the time manager got there it was illegal to sell it.

It was only recently that you could buy alcoholic beverages on Sunday at all. The main people opposing Sunday sales were liquor store owners, who didn't want to pay to staff the stores 7 days a week. But they didn't want grocery stores and such cutting into their sales either.

Yeah. The USA is just a hoot.
Tom

 

[Toni]

Don't forget: 9 of Tennessee's 95 counties are completely dry.

Seriously? That's still a thing? I keep getting told by people like Tim Poole and TSwizzle that I'm living in a fascist nation, but trust me - you say "No beer" and the revolution would start and finish real fucking quickly.

I'm starting to have the idea yanks have no fucking idea what freedom really means (Just kidding, many in laws and loved one live in the states, but please fucking lift your game).

Yes, indeed. In some parts of some states, it is illegal to purchase alcohol.

OTOH, some years ago, I was having dinner with friends and family in Wisconsin (I don't live in Wisconsin) and learned that they have a really peculiar law regarding legal age: In our party were 4 adults (over 40), and 5 minors with regards to alcohol consumption. One was my son who was 20 at the time. Another was the other couple's son, who was 17 at the time, so a minor. The other kids were under 17. Because of the vagueries of Wisconsin law, my 20 year old son was not able to legally be served a beer: he was legally an adult at 18 but under the legal age of consumption which was 21. The other couple (who are not American)'s son was 17 and legally a minor. With his parents' permission, he was legally allowed to be served alcohol, whatever his parents chose to purchase for him. Because parents can legally purchase alcohol for their minor children and allow them to drink whatever the parent feels is reasonable. At 17, our friends' son was a minor and not legally responsible for himself. Our 20 year old son was a legally an adult but under the age of consumption could not legally drink or purchase alcohol nor could we purchase it for him.

*Our friends were outraged and quietly purchased a beer and slipped it to our son.

Laws are sometimes very peculiar.

Other weird things: Where I grew up, parents could not take ANYONE, including a babe in arms, into the voting booth with them. Here, we can take our kids with us which is very convenient for parents of young children. Also where I grew up, children were NOT ALLOWED in any kind of bar. Here, stop by a bar during (name the sport) season and you'll find entire families, including babies in high chairs sitting around tables, watching the game. ON SUNDAYS.

The other thing about having some types of businesses closed on Sundays or with shorter hours. Sure, the origins were in blue laws, to restrict Sundays for God. But the truth is that having a business be closed or have shorter hours on Sundays gave a lot of working families their only time in a week that was just family time. So, those salesmen on car lots and appliance stores could spend precious time with their families. For that reason, sometimes the repeal of such restrictions is opposed--Not because it violates the sanctity of Sundays for God but because it violates the sanctity of Sundays for Family. Which I totally get. As a kid, Sunday afternoons were very often spent at grandparents' homes or later, my aunt and uncle's.

 

[TomC]

The other thing about having some types of businesses closed on Sundays or with shorter hours. Sure, the origins were in blue laws, to restrict Sundays for God. But the truth is that having a business be closed or have shorter hours on Sundays gave a lot of working families their only time in a week that was just family time. So, those salesmen on car lots and appliance stores could spend precious time with their families. For that reason, sometimes the repeal of such restrictions is opposed--Not because it violates the sanctity of Sundays for God but because it violates the sanctity of Sundays for Family. Which I totally get. As a kid, Sunday afternoons were very often spent at grandparents' homes or later, my aunt and uncle's.

I'm totally with you on this. "Keeping the Sabbath" was billed as a religious notion, but I don't think it is. People need to spend a little time doing stuff besides chasing the Almighty dollar. One day every seven is a good balance. We may as well all choose the same one, so we can plan accordingly.

Doesn't matter if you're doing family stuff or hiking or indulging in your postage stamp collection. Do things you're drawn towards, instead of stuff you feel required to do.

There's a good, secular, reason for Sabbath.
Tom

 

[Playball40]

Dude, why don't you download and read the meeting minutes in question, and highlight the sections in it that you think have to do with racism or anti-semitism. Then we can have a discussion. At this point, it seems you and others seem to think that's what this is all about, but my interpretation is its the wrong focus. Its a little community in Tennessee that's got some prudish attitudes...that's about all you can say about the whole story IMHO. Just show me the racism. "Dog whistles" and "personal feelings about rural southern people" don't count.

Are you truly naive enough to believe that this is about mouse nudity? There are a lot of images of animals without clothing on the shelves of any children's library, both illustrated and in photographs. Hundreds of titles, even in a small library. Why, in your opinion, are they concerned about this specific book and not any of the others?

Winnie the Pooh has no pants on.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Winnie the Pooh has no pants on.

You have sern the Disney cartoon where someone opens the door to Donald Duck after his bath and he covers up?
The duck that walks around bare-assed covers up His nudity?
Weird...

 

[Loren Pechtel]

OTOH, some years ago, I was having dinner with friends and family in Wisconsin (I don't live in Wisconsin) and learned that they have a really peculiar law regarding legal age: In our party were 4 adults (over 40), and 5 minors with regards to alcohol consumption. One was my son who was 20 at the time. Another was the other couple's son, who was 17 at the time, so a minor. The other kids were under 17. Because of the vagueries of Wisconsin law, my 20 year old son was not able to legally be served a beer: he was legally an adult at 18 but under the legal age of consumption which was 21. The other couple (who are not American)'s son was 17 and legally a minor. With his parents' permission, he was legally allowed to be served alcohol, whatever his parents chose to purchase for him. Because parents can legally purchase alcohol for their minor children and allow them to drink whatever the parent feels is reasonable. At 17, our friends' son was a minor and not legally responsible for himself. Our 20 year old son was a legally an adult but under the age of consumption could not legally drink or purchase alcohol nor could we purchase it for him.

*Our friends were outraged and quietly purchased a beer and slipped it to our son.

I knew about the serving alcohol to your children bit (and I think it's a good idea--introduce it gradually, not all at once), I didn't realize it was only minor children.

Other weird things: Where I grew up, parents could not take ANYONE, including a babe in arms, into the voting booth with them. Here, we can take our kids with us which is very convenient for parents of young children. Also where I grew up, children were NOT ALLOWED in any kind of bar. Here, stop by a bar during (name the sport) season and you'll find entire families, including babies in high chairs sitting around tables, watching the game. ON SUNDAYS.

That's always been my experience. Children are not allowed in a place whose primary business is alcohol.

The other thing about having some types of businesses closed on Sundays or with shorter hours. Sure, the origins were in blue laws, to restrict Sundays for God. But the truth is that having a business be closed or have shorter hours on Sundays gave a lot of working families their only time in a week that was just family time. So, those salesmen on car lots and appliance stores could spend precious time with their families. For that reason, sometimes the repeal of such restrictions is opposed--Not because it violates the sanctity of Sundays for God but because it violates the sanctity of Sundays for Family. Which I totally get. As a kid, Sunday afternoons were very often spent at grandparents' homes or later, my aunt and uncle's.

But there's no reason for it to be specified as Sunday. That's religious.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I'm totally with you on this. "Keeping the Sabbath" was billed as a religious notion, but I don't think it is. People need to spend a little time doing stuff besides chasing the Almighty dollar. One day every seven is a good balance. We may as well all choose the same one, so we can plan accordingly.

Doesn't matter if you're doing family stuff or hiking or indulging in your postage stamp collection. Do things you're drawn towards, instead of stuff you feel required to do.

There's a good, secular, reason for Sabbath.
Tom

1) Putting it on Sunday is clearly religious.

2) You're making an argument that jobs should not be 7 days/week--something I think is a good idea. We already require overtime for more than 40 hr/wk, I'd like to see the same concept applied to over 5 days/wk. That says nothing about whether businesses can be 7 days/week, though--it's not the same people every day!

 

[Toni]

OTOH, some years ago, I was having dinner with friends and family in Wisconsin (I don't live in Wisconsin) and learned that they have a really peculiar law regarding legal age: In our party were 4 adults (over 40), and 5 minors with regards to alcohol consumption. One was my son who was 20 at the time. Another was the other couple's son, who was 17 at the time, so a minor. The other kids were under 17. Because of the vagueries of Wisconsin law, my 20 year old son was not able to legally be served a beer: he was legally an adult at 18 but under the legal age of consumption which was 21. The other couple (who are not American)'s son was 17 and legally a minor. With his parents' permission, he was legally allowed to be served alcohol, whatever his parents chose to purchase for him. Because parents can legally purchase alcohol for their minor children and allow them to drink whatever the parent feels is reasonable. At 17, our friends' son was a minor and not legally responsible for himself. Our 20 year old son was a legally an adult but under the age of consumption could not legally drink or purchase alcohol nor could we purchase it for him.

*Our friends were outraged and quietly purchased a beer and slipped it to our son.

I knew about the serving alcohol to your children bit (and I think it's a good idea--introduce it gradually, not all at once), I didn't realize it was only minor children.

Other weird things: Where I grew up, parents could not take ANYONE, including a babe in arms, into the voting booth with them. Here, we can take our kids with us which is very convenient for parents of young children. Also where I grew up, children were NOT ALLOWED in any kind of bar. Here, stop by a bar during (name the sport) season and you'll find entire families, including babies in high chairs sitting around tables, watching the game. ON SUNDAYS.

That's always been my experience. Children are not allowed in a place whose primary business is alcohol.

The other thing about having some types of businesses closed on Sundays or with shorter hours. Sure, the origins were in blue laws, to restrict Sundays for God. But the truth is that having a business be closed or have shorter hours on Sundays gave a lot of working families their only time in a week that was just family time. So, those salesmen on car lots and appliance stores could spend precious time with their families. For that reason, sometimes the repeal of such restrictions is opposed--Not because it violates the sanctity of Sundays for God but because it violates the sanctity of Sundays for Family. Which I totally get. As a kid, Sunday afternoons were very often spent at grandparents' homes or later, my aunt and uncle's.

But there's no reason for it to be specified as Sunday. That's religious.

Not really. It needs to be the most convenient day community wide. In some communities, Saturday would be better—it would better accommodate the religious beliefs and cultural traditions of the dominant groups abs allow everyone family time. In other communities, Sundays work best to accommodate religious beliefs of the dominant group as well as to allow everyone family time.

To me, it dies t matter if the original purpose was to accommodate religion. It matters that culture, community abs commerce have been centered around a week that allows at least one day where most people are able to observe a day of not being at their jobs. Whether they spend it worshipping, fishing, cleaning out the attic, barbecuing or weeding grandma’s garden is nobody’s concern. But in order for it to wirk, it needs to be a commonly held day/days off for most people.*

Obviously some people would need to staff essential wirk: healthcare, public safety, etc. and some people would prefer a different day of rest to better accommodate their religious practices, family time, cultural customs, etc.

 

[TomC]

1) Putting it on Sunday is clearly religious.

Clearly not true.
God Himself made the Sabbath. It's from sundown Friday til sundown Saturday.

You seem to be mistaking the tradition of a bizarre jewish/pagan heresy amalgamation for "religious". God disagrees.


Tom

 

[repoman]

That this tangentially got Whoopi Goldberg suspended is so weird.

 

[thebeave]

That this tangentially got Whoopi Goldberg suspended is so weird.

Yep. For two weeks.

WHOOPI GOLDBERG SUSPENDED FROM 'THE VIEW'

Whoopi got in trouble on the show Monday, when she said, "Let’s be truthful about it because Holocaust isn’t about race. It’s not about race. It’s not about race. It’s about man’s inhumanity to man."

Ana Navarro challenged Whoopi, arguing ... "But it’s about white supremacists going after Jews."

Whoopi's response ... "But these are two white groups of people. The minute you turn it into race it goes down this alley. Let’s talk about it for what it is. It’s how people treat each other. It doesn’t matter if you’re Black or white, Jews, it’s each other."

She tried a make-good Tuesday, saying ... "Yesterday on the show I misspoke. [The Holocaust] is indeed about race, because Hitler and the Nazis considered the Jews to be an inferior race. Now, words matter, and mine are no exception. I regret my comments and I stand corrected. I also stand with the Jewish people."

This is madness. She was misinformed, said stupid shit, reconsidered her view, then she apologized in an appropriate manner. Then ABC grounded her for two weeks. I guess we should be thankful they didn't make her walk down Hollywood Blvd with her head down while the crowd throws rotted vegetables at her, and yelling "Shame...shame". That seems to be where we are headed.