The incel issue

[Loren Pechtel]

And what you're missing is that for those at the lower end of the attractiveness scale it can be a barrier many are unable to overcome.

That's not something I've commented on in this thread. I know that for some the barrier can be very high, even impossible, but the reality that 'finding a partner is an individual problem' is still true for them. You're replying to an argument I never made.

If you want to talk about people who are locked out of the dating pool, that's fine, it just doesn't have much to do with anything I've said in this thread.

I'm not even saying completely locked out, but rather those that get very few dates--and very well might not meet anyone compatible in the few chances they get.

 

[Toni]

There seems to be attitude about incels in this thread that incels are just making excuses, aren't trying hard enough, can't handle a little rejection, lack confidence, etc. and if they would just quit whining and put their mind to it, they could find someone. As a woman yourself, what would suggest as a remedy for this person to free herself from the incel pity party?

Yup--those who have it easy can't comprehend that it's not easy for everyone.

It's all kinda weird when you think about it. Take the example in the earlier video about the short guys. When asked what it would take for the women to consider the short guys, one woman said she might consider them if the taller men were murderers and the other women laughed and agreed. On the other hand, suppose instead of short guys, it was black guys and they went through the same sort of rejection and ridicule from the women as the short guys received, just because of their skin color. I'm sure there would be outrage here (and rightfully so) about that situation, but with the short guys the attitude is basically "<shrug> too bad...just try harder ". Height and skin color are both immutable physical characteristics, so how/why would the attitude be so completely opposite?

You're misrepresenting the views expressed in this thread. Nobody is shunning people who have trouble finding a partner. But there's not really a polite and inoffensive way to say - 'if you want a romantic partner, that's your problem to solve'. We all get that some people have a harder time, and have sympathy for them, but that doesn't make the reality for these people any different than those who don't have a hard time.

Race is an entirely different scenario, but I won't bother getting into it.

And what you're missing is that for those at the lower end of the attractiveness scale it can be a barrier many are unable to overcome.

Do you know what is very attractive? Self confidence and a genuine interest in other people. Writing as the friend of more than one not conventionally beautiful person who ‘married out of their league.’ In the height of my youth and beauty, I was pretty darn average looking but my husband is quite handsome and so we’re a couple of boyfriends back in my dating days. To the point that I got looks that clearly indicated they thought I was way out of my league.

 

[rousseau]

There seems to be attitude about incels in this thread that incels are just making excuses, aren't trying hard enough, can't handle a little rejection, lack confidence, etc. and if they would just quit whining and put their mind to it, they could find someone. As a woman yourself, what would suggest as a remedy for this person to free herself from the incel pity party?

Yup--those who have it easy can't comprehend that it's not easy for everyone.

It's all kinda weird when you think about it. Take the example in the earlier video about the short guys. When asked what it would take for the women to consider the short guys, one woman said she might consider them if the taller men were murderers and the other women laughed and agreed. On the other hand, suppose instead of short guys, it was black guys and they went through the same sort of rejection and ridicule from the women as the short guys received, just because of their skin color. I'm sure there would be outrage here (and rightfully so) about that situation, but with the short guys the attitude is basically "<shrug> too bad...just try harder ". Height and skin color are both immutable physical characteristics, so how/why would the attitude be so completely opposite?

You're misrepresenting the views expressed in this thread. Nobody is shunning people who have trouble finding a partner. But there's not really a polite and inoffensive way to say - 'if you want a romantic partner, that's your problem to solve'. We all get that some people have a harder time, and have sympathy for them, but that doesn't make the reality for these people any different than those who don't have a hard time.

Race is an entirely different scenario, but I won't bother getting into it.

And what you're missing is that for those at the lower end of the attractiveness scale it can be a barrier many are unable to overcome.

Do you know what is very attractive? Self confidence and a genuine interest in other people. Writing as the friend of more than one not conventionally beautiful person who ‘married out of their league.’ In the height of my youth and beauty, I was pretty darn average looking but my husband is quite handsome and so we’re a couple of boyfriends back in my dating days. To the point that I got looks that clearly indicated they thought I was way out of my league.

The question of 'how can I find a partner' should really be re-framed as 'would I make a good parent or life partner'. There are plenty of homely, short, tall, or awkward people that make great parents, and find themselves in happy relationships. But if you can't meet the criteria of - 'would I be a good parent or life partner' - there's a more serious problem at play.

My guess is that social and job skills are a bigger problem than appearance for many single people. Although appearance can definitely have it's day as well.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It all comes into play. Looks, personality, cohesivity, interests, there are many different aspects to relationships.

But that is off-topic. Because incels are not complaining about not being able to find life long commitments. They demand to get fucked by women they consider to be hot... because the incel is owed it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And what you're missing is that for those at the lower end of the attractiveness scale it can be a barrier many are unable to overcome.

Do you know what is very attractive? Self confidence and a genuine interest in other people. Writing as the friend of more than one not conventionally beautiful person who ‘married out of their league.’ In the height of my youth and beauty, I was pretty darn average looking but my husband is quite handsome and so we’re a couple of boyfriends back in my dating days. To the point that I got looks that clearly indicated they thought I was way out of my league.

Self confidence and a genuine interest in people only come through with time, they do nothing about a left swipe.

 

[Toni]

And what you're missing is that for those at the lower end of the attractiveness scale it can be a barrier many are unable to overcome.

Do you know what is very attractive? Self confidence and a genuine interest in other people. Writing as the friend of more than one not conventionally beautiful person who ‘married out of their league.’ In the height of my youth and beauty, I was pretty darn average looking but my husband is quite handsome and so we’re a couple of boyfriends back in my dating days. To the point that I got looks that clearly indicated they thought I was way out of my league.

Self confidence and a genuine interest in people only come through with time, they do nothing about a left swipe.

True, I suppose for people who pick their dates out of a catalogue.

Confidence and interest in other people is quickly apparent when you meet someone in person.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And what you're missing is that for those at the lower end of the attractiveness scale it can be a barrier many are unable to overcome.

Do you know what is very attractive? Self confidence and a genuine interest in other people. Writing as the friend of more than one not conventionally beautiful person who ‘married out of their league.’ In the height of my youth and beauty, I was pretty darn average looking but my husband is quite handsome and so we’re a couple of boyfriends back in my dating days. To the point that I got looks that clearly indicated they thought I was way out of my league.

Self confidence and a genuine interest in people only come through with time, they do nothing about a left swipe.

True, I suppose for people who pick their dates out of a catalogue.

Confidence and interest in other people is quickly apparent when you meet someone in person.

I was thinking "dating app", not "catalogue". The problem is that is becoming a major part of dating.

 

[Toni]

And what you're missing is that for those at the lower end of the attractiveness scale it can be a barrier many are unable to overcome.

Do you know what is very attractive? Self confidence and a genuine interest in other people. Writing as the friend of more than one not conventionally beautiful person who ‘married out of their league.’ In the height of my youth and beauty, I was pretty darn average looking but my husband is quite handsome and so we’re a couple of boyfriends back in my dating days. To the point that I got looks that clearly indicated they thought I was way out of my league.

Self confidence and a genuine interest in people only come through with time, they do nothing about a left swipe.

True, I suppose for people who pick their dates out of a catalogue.

Confidence and interest in other people is quickly apparent when you meet someone in person.

I was thinking "dating app", not "catalogue". The problem is that is becoming a major part of dating.

I was thinking dating app = catalogue. At least on some subconscious level

 

[ZiprHead]

And what you're missing is that for those at the lower end of the attractiveness scale it can be a barrier many are unable to overcome.

Do you know what is very attractive? Self confidence and a genuine interest in other people. Writing as the friend of more than one not conventionally beautiful person who ‘married out of their league.’ In the height of my youth and beauty, I was pretty darn average looking but my husband is quite handsome and so we’re a couple of boyfriends back in my dating days. To the point that I got looks that clearly indicated they thought I was way out of my league.

Self confidence and a genuine interest in people only come through with time, they do nothing about a left swipe.

True, I suppose for people who pick their dates out of a catalogue.

Confidence and interest in other people is quickly apparent when you meet someone in person.

I was thinking "dating app", not "catalogue". The problem is that is becoming a major part of dating.

I was thinking dating app = catalogue. At least on some subconscious level

I was thinking "There's a catalogue?!?"

 

[rousseau]

And what you're missing is that for those at the lower end of the attractiveness scale it can be a barrier many are unable to overcome.

Do you know what is very attractive? Self confidence and a genuine interest in other people. Writing as the friend of more than one not conventionally beautiful person who ‘married out of their league.’ In the height of my youth and beauty, I was pretty darn average looking but my husband is quite handsome and so we’re a couple of boyfriends back in my dating days. To the point that I got looks that clearly indicated they thought I was way out of my league.

Self confidence and a genuine interest in people only come through with time, they do nothing about a left swipe.

True, I suppose for people who pick their dates out of a catalogue.

Confidence and interest in other people is quickly apparent when you meet someone in person.

I was thinking "dating app", not "catalogue". The problem is that is becoming a major part of dating.

A significant chunk of dating app use is done by non-serious people trying to get laid, where appearance is going to factor in differently.

For those who are serious about finding a long term relationship there are more serious apps, where I imagine people are given more careful consideration.

But yes if you're not the ideal type it's reasonable to expect it to be a little harder under any scenario.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And what you're missing is that for those at the lower end of the attractiveness scale it can be a barrier many are unable to overcome.

Do you know what is very attractive? Self confidence and a genuine interest in other people. Writing as the friend of more than one not conventionally beautiful person who ‘married out of their league.’ In the height of my youth and beauty, I was pretty darn average looking but my husband is quite handsome and so we’re a couple of boyfriends back in my dating days. To the point that I got looks that clearly indicated they thought I was way out of my league.

Self confidence and a genuine interest in people only come through with time, they do nothing about a left swipe.

True, I suppose for people who pick their dates out of a catalogue.

Confidence and interest in other people is quickly apparent when you meet someone in person.

I was thinking "dating app", not "catalogue". The problem is that is becoming a major part of dating.

I was thinking dating app = catalogue. At least on some subconscious level

I was thinking "There's a catalogue?!?"

Mitt Romney has binders.

 

[Toni]

And what you're missing is that for those at the lower end of the attractiveness scale it can be a barrier many are unable to overcome.

Do you know what is very attractive? Self confidence and a genuine interest in other people. Writing as the friend of more than one not conventionally beautiful person who ‘married out of their league.’ In the height of my youth and beauty, I was pretty darn average looking but my husband is quite handsome and so we’re a couple of boyfriends back in my dating days. To the point that I got looks that clearly indicated they thought I was way out of my league.

Self confidence and a genuine interest in people only come through with time, they do nothing about a left swipe.

True, I suppose for people who pick their dates out of a catalogue.

Confidence and interest in other people is quickly apparent when you meet someone in person.

I was thinking "dating app", not "catalogue". The problem is that is becoming a major part of dating.

I was thinking dating app = catalogue. At least on some subconscious level

I was thinking "There's a catalogue?!?"

Mitt Romney has binders.

I had forgotten about his binders…

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I was thinking "dating app", not "catalogue". The problem is that is becoming a major part of dating.

A significant chunk of dating app use is done by non-serious people trying to get laid, where appearance is going to factor in differently.

For those who are serious about finding a long term relationship there are more serious apps, where I imagine people are given more careful consideration.

But yes if you're not the ideal type it's reasonable to expect it to be a little harder under any scenario.

My impression of dating apps (never used one as I've been married since before the internet) is that they are pretty much only useful for getting laid. Match has bought up almost every other dating app out there and remade them in it's mold. Someone just looking to get laid will keep coming back for more, someone looking for a relationship isn't a very good customer because success leaves them not coming back for more.

 

[ZiprHead]

I was thinking dating app = catalogue. At least on some subconscious level

I was thinking "There's a catalogue?!?"

Mitt Romney has binders.

Binders sounds a little creepy where catalogue sounds French.

 

[Toni]

I was thinking "dating app", not "catalogue". The problem is that is becoming a major part of dating.

A significant chunk of dating app use is done by non-serious people trying to get laid, where appearance is going to factor in differently.

For those who are serious about finding a long term relationship there are more serious apps, where I imagine people are given more careful consideration.

But yes if you're not the ideal type it's reasonable to expect it to be a little harder under any scenario.

My impression of dating apps (never used one as I've been married since before the internet) is that they are pretty much only useful for getting laid. Match has bought up almost every other dating app out there and remade them in it's mold. Someone just looking to get laid will keep coming back for more, someone looking for a relationship isn't a very good customer because success leaves them not coming back for more.

I know more than one married couple who met via a dating app.

 

[rousseau]

I was thinking "dating app", not "catalogue". The problem is that is becoming a major part of dating.

A significant chunk of dating app use is done by non-serious people trying to get laid, where appearance is going to factor in differently.

For those who are serious about finding a long term relationship there are more serious apps, where I imagine people are given more careful consideration.

But yes if you're not the ideal type it's reasonable to expect it to be a little harder under any scenario.

My impression of dating apps (never used one as I've been married since before the internet) is that they are pretty much only useful for getting laid. Match has bought up almost every other dating app out there and remade them in it's mold. Someone just looking to get laid will keep coming back for more, someone looking for a relationship isn't a very good customer because success leaves them not coming back for more.

Well the primary purpose of dating apps isn't technically a relationship, it's connecting with others. Why you want to connect isn't something the app can really control. But as you mention, those looking for quick hookups are going to be there in higher proportion by definition. Because the app excludes everyone who's already found someone or is no longer looking.

I know at least one married couple who met via online dating. It can work if you're serious about it.

 

[Toni]

I was thinking "dating app", not "catalogue". The problem is that is becoming a major part of dating.

A significant chunk of dating app use is done by non-serious people trying to get laid, where appearance is going to factor in differently.

For those who are serious about finding a long term relationship there are more serious apps, where I imagine people are given more careful consideration.

But yes if you're not the ideal type it's reasonable to expect it to be a little harder under any scenario.

My impression of dating apps (never used one as I've been married since before the internet) is that they are pretty much only useful for getting laid. Match has bought up almost every other dating app out there and remade them in it's mold. Someone just looking to get laid will keep coming back for more, someone looking for a relationship isn't a very good customer because success leaves them not coming back for more.

Well the primary purpose of dating apps isn't technically a relationship, it's connecting with others. Why you want to connect isn't something the app can really control. But as you mention, those looking for quick hookups are going to be there in higher proportion by definition. Because the app excludes everyone who's already found someone or is no longer looking.

I know at least one married couple who met via online dating. It can work if you're serious about it.

Or it can work because what you thought of was just a date or a hook up turns into more.

 

[lostone]

People who want to get laid may also want to begin a long term relationship

 

[Bronzeage]

I was thinking "dating app", not "catalogue". The problem is that is becoming a major part of dating.

A significant chunk of dating app use is done by non-serious people trying to get laid, where appearance is going to factor in differently.

For those who are serious about finding a long term relationship there are more serious apps, where I imagine people are given more careful consideration.

But yes if you're not the ideal type it's reasonable to expect it to be a little harder under any scenario.

My impression of dating apps (never used one as I've been married since before the internet) is that they are pretty much only useful for getting laid. Match has bought up almost every other dating app out there and remade them in it's mold. Someone just looking to get laid will keep coming back for more, someone looking for a relationship isn't a very good customer because success leaves them not coming back for more.

Well the primary purpose of dating apps isn't technically a relationship, it's connecting with others. Why you want to connect isn't something the app can really control. But as you mention, those looking for quick hookups are going to be there in higher proportion by definition. Because the app excludes everyone who's already found someone or is no longer looking.

I know at least one married couple who met via online dating. It can work if you're serious about it.

Or it can work because what you thought of was just a date or a hook up turns into more.

I've tried to have a one night stand, but it never worked out. There was always another stand after that and before you know it, you've got a 180 night stand, or a 3285 night stand. Right now I'm working on a 10,950 night stand.

My current stand and I met because she put an ad in the paper. This was pre-internet days and I can write a really good introduction letter.

 

[Tharmas]

I know at least one married couple who met via online dating. It can work if you're serious about it.

My daughter met her husband via a dating app. They seem to be a perfect match, have two great kids now, and are living the good life. As an added bonus, the rest of the family loves him.