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The Purge

ImGod said:
Shadowy Man said:
Has it been clarified as to where the money will come from to pay these people the eight months they aren’t working?
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The last appropriation pays for it through the government fiscal year. So think of it as pre-paid.
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sure. Unless you need to hire a replacement then there’s no money for that. So if useful people actually leave or if new positions open up to fill with promotions there’s no new money for that.
 
Elixir said:
ImGod said:
I think we gave more money to Ukraine last year than the combined cost of fed employees for the 250 year history of the country.
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Check your sources.
If you place full retail value on stuff we gave Ukraine so we wouldn’t have to pay to destroy it ourselves, you’re still not even close.
Our ANNUAL federal payroll is (was) 110 billion.
As of February 2025, the United States has provided approximately $53.7 billion in direct military aid to Ukraine since Russia’s invasion in February 2022.
Less than half of last year’s payroll alone.

WHO IS FEEDING YOU THIS BS?

I mean, exact figure for historical total payroll figures are not even available, so someone is blowing smoke.
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You are correct. I missed some zeros in my estimate.
 
ImGod said:
I missed some zeros in my estimate.
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You are far from alone.
Missing decimal point placements is epidemic among Trump voters. I think this one is off by more than tenfold. But looking forward, employees will probably have to pay Trump for the privilege of working in government, so the cost of federal payroll will become a negative number.
 
Elixir said:
ImGod said:
I missed some zeros in my estimate.
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You are far from alone.
Missing decimal point placements is epidemic among Trump voters. I think this one is off by more than tenfold. But looking forward, employees will probably have to pay Trump for the privilege of working in government, so the cost of federal payroll will become a negative number.
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My wife will be done with her 25 year government career next Wednesday. It was originally next Friday. They changed it to yesterday on Thursday. Then sent an email last night at 9pm and said Wed.

That's the organizational skills of the administration right now. None.

She is early retiring. Because there is no working for this government.

The latest stuff coming out today by email is like frat hazing to get people to leave. I bet 90% would leave tomorrow if they didn't have families and lives to worry about.
 
My guess is that they'll fire all these people, tout all the money saved, and then begin hiring inexperienced people to fill the void, but who also swear loyalty to TrumpCo.

These things don't happen in free countries. Saddam Hussein was indeed a very bad man, part of which required that every government employee to be a member of the Baathist party. For some reason, unfathomable to all but the greatest minds, Saddam garnered 90+ percent of the vote in every "election."

It's going to be very interesting to see it, but I don't want to live in interesting times.
 
Colonel Sanders said:
My guess is that they'll fire all these people, tout all the money saved, and then begin hiring inexperienced people to fill the void, but who also swear loyalty to TrumpCo.

These things don't happen in free countries. Saddam Hussein was indeed a very bad man, part of which required that every government employee to be a member of the Baathist party. For some reason, unfathomable to all but the greatest minds, Saddam garnered 90+ percent of the vote in every "election."

It's going to be very interesting to see it, but I don't want to live in interesting times.
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I worry we're going to get in a list making phase. Like how some people are targeting Tesla owners because of Musk. But most are liberals because conservatives buy fewer EVs. List making pushes us to further extremes.

I agree that they push out everyone they can then find party people. Then another election changes parties and the precedence was set to replace every government employee with party people before Jan 6th.

If the pendulum gets out of control then the country comes apart. I know people in the neighborhood that are on my list of don't do anything with them.
 

Trump administration fires top US general and Navy chief in unprecedented purge of military leadership​


(CNN) — In an unprecedented purge of the military’s senior leadership Friday night, President Donald Trump fired the top US general just moments before his defense secretary fired the chief of the US Navy and the vice chief of the Air Force.

...

The removal of the second Black man to serve as America’s most senior general and the first woman to serve on the Joint Chiefs of Staff appears to send a strong signal from an administration that has outlawed diversity and inclusion efforts across the military and wider government.

Hegseth called Franchetti a “DEI hire” in his 2024 book, in which he wrote: “If naval operations suffer, at least we can hold our heads high. Because at least we have another first! The first female member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff — hooray.”
...
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Another general was fired as well as a top JAG officer. Can't have those pesky military lawyers trying to use the rule of law!

More on CQ Brown:
...
Although Hegseth had been meeting regularly with Brown since the former Fox News host took over the top Pentagon job last month, he had openly questioned whether Brown had been named chair because he was Black. “Was it because of his skin color? Or his skill? We’ll never know, but always doubt – which on its face seems unfair to CQ. But since he has made the race card one of his biggest calling cards, it doesn’t really much matter,” Hegseth wrote in one of his books.

Brown had been praised, including by Time, for breaking racial barriers in the military and for his “warfighter” credentials. When he was sworn in as the air force chief of staff in 2020, during the first Trump administration, Brown acknowledged previous US military service members who had been denied advancement because of their race, Time reported. “It is due to their trials and tribulations in breaking barriers that I can address you today as the air force chief of staff,” Brown said.

In 2020, Trump himself had celebrated Brown’s confirmation on social media “as the USA’s first-ever African American military service chief” and noted that he had appointed him to that role....
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Basically, making up stuff about people and then firing them because of the conspiracy you made up....which also just happens to be discrimination.
 
crazyfingers said:
GenesisNemesis said:
www.yahoo.com

Trump’s FBI Moves to Criminally Charge Major Climate Groups

The Trump administration is targeting climate organizations that received a Biden-era grant.
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com

The arrests of political opponents are beginning.
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I have to wonder what law would make it criminal to file false charges against someone/organization. These have to be false charges. Can these organizations get the legal help they would need to prove tRrumped up charges.
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Probably but I doubt it's going to be a walk in the park.
 
https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/13/politics/judge-opm-probationary-employees-fired-hearing/index.html

San FranciscoCNN —
A federal judge has ordered half a dozen federal agencies to “immediately” reinstate probationary employees fired last month as part of the Trump administration’s effort to rapidly shrink the federal workforce, calling the effort a “sham.”

The preliminary injunction issued from the bench Thursday by US District Judge William Alsup requires the departments of Veterans Affairs, Agriculture, Defense, Energy, Interior and Treasury to rehire the employees. The judge said that he might extend the order to cover other federal agencies at a later time.

Alsup, an appointee of former President Bill Clinton, said he was making the ruling because he believes the Office of Personnel Management unlawfully directed the agencies earlier this year to lay off the probationary employees, who generally have been on the job for less than a year.

U.S. President Donald Trump reacts as he meets with Irish Taoiseach (Prime Minister) Micheal Martin (not pictured), in the Oval Office at the White House in Washington, D.C., U.S., March 12, 2025. REUTERS/Evelyn Hockstein

RELATED LIVE-STORYTrump’s presidency: Ukraine ceasefire talks, DOGE’s government overhaul and the looming shutdown
“The court finds that Office of Personnel Management did direct all agencies to terminate probationary employees with the exception of mission critical employees,” he said, rejecting arguments from the Justice Department that OPM merely issued “guidance” to the agencies that then led to the firings.

The judge said the order is effective immediately: “This is the order and it counts.”

The ruling came in a case brought by labor unions and others challenging OPM’s role in the firings, which affected thousands of employees and sent shockwaves through various federal agencies, some of which later rehired some of the workers.
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And, I'm happy to say that my son who works for the DOD just got a notice telling him he was considered an essential employee despite being technically on probation since he went from sub contractor to employee just a few months ago. Maybe there is hope.
 
The preliminary injunction issued from the bench Thursday by US District Judge William Alsup requires the departments of Veterans Affairs, Agriculture, Defense, Energy, Interior and Treasury to rehire the employees. The judge said that he might extend the order to cover other federal agencies at a later time.

Alsup, an appointee of former President Bill Clinton...
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...has just put himself at the top of the list for the next round of firings.

Of course, it would be unlawful for Trump to fire him, but as Alsup must be fully aware, that minor detail has not been any kind of constraint up until now.
 
Like the tariffs, the on and off again nature of the process and daily verbal confusion creates instability. Anyone that can leave, will leave. Anyone younger will avoid looking there as an option.

There will be a large drain gap created even if the courts get involved. Who has time to figure out how courts will rule or deal with getting fired and reinstated week to week, if there is rent to pay and food to buy. If you can, find a new job anyway. Private sector has always paid better. Government jobs were about stability and long term defered compensation. That's over.

The permanent damage to trade and government structure is significant and we're only a couple months in to the administration. It will not get better. Especially, if Congress cuts budgets and/or agencies.
 
southernhybrid said:
https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/13/politics/judge-opm-probationary-employees-fired-hearing/index.html

San FranciscoCNN —
A federal judge has ordered half a dozen federal agencies to “immediately” reinstate probationary employees fired last month as part of the Trump administration’s effort to rapidly shrink the federal workforce, calling the effort a “sham.”

The preliminary injunction issued from the bench Thursday by US District Judge William Alsup requires the departments of Veterans Affairs, Agriculture, Defense, Energy, Interior and Treasury to rehire the employees. The judge said that he might extend the order to cover other federal agencies at a later time.

Alsup, an appointee of former President Bill Clinton, said he was making the ruling because he believes the Office of Personnel Management unlawfully directed the agencies earlier this year to lay off the probationary employees, who generally have been on the job for less than a year.

U.S. President Donald Trump reacts as he meets with Irish Taoiseach (Prime Minister) Micheal Martin (not pictured), in the Oval Office at the White House in Washington, D.C., U.S., March 12, 2025. REUTERS/Evelyn Hockstein
RELATED LIVE-STORYTrump’s presidency: Ukraine ceasefire talks, DOGE’s government overhaul and the looming shutdown
“The court finds that Office of Personnel Management did direct all agencies to terminate probationary employees with the exception of mission critical employees,” he said, rejecting arguments from the Justice Department that OPM merely issued “guidance” to the agencies that then led to the firings.

The judge said the order is effective immediately: “This is the order and it counts.”

The ruling came in a case brought by labor unions and others challenging OPM’s role in the firings, which affected thousands of employees and sent shockwaves through various federal agencies, some of which later rehired some of the workers.
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And, I'm happy to say that my son who works for the DOD just got a notice telling him he was considered an essential employee despite being technically on probation since he went from sub contractor to employee just a few months ago. Maybe there is hope.
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Ya. It's at least good to see. I posted this in the other topic but should have remembered this thread. It's good to see someone call this the big lie that it is.

Federal judge rules mass firing of federal workers illegal and orders them rehired.

Whether that will happen, I have my doubts, but it feels good to read what the judge said.

...

U.S. District Judge William Alsup described the mass firings as a “sham” strategy by the government’s central human resources office to sidestep legal requirements for reducing the federal workforce.

...

Alsup, a San Francisco-based appointee of President Bill Clinton, ordered the Defense, Treasury, Energy, Interior, Agriculture and Veterans Affairs departments to “immediately” offer all fired probationary employees their jobs back. The Office of Personnel Management, the judge said, had made an “unlawful” decision to terminate them.

...

Alsup also lashed out at the Justice Department over its handling of the case, saying he believes that Trump administration lawyers were hiding the facts about who directed the mass firings.
“You will not bring the people in here to be cross-examined. You’re afraid to do so because you know cross examination would reveal the truth,” the judge said to a DOJ attorney during a hearing Thursday. “I tend to doubt that you’re telling me the truth. … I’m tired of seeing you stonewall on trying to get at the truth.”

Alsup also said the administration attempted to circumvent federal laws on reducing the workforce by attributing the firings to “performance” when that was not in fact the case. The judge called the move “a gimmick.”

“It is sad, a sad day when our government would fire some good employee and say it was based on performance when they know good and well that’s a lie,” Alsup said.
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I recall it was so obvious that it was a lie to say that all those thousands of people were fired over poor performance. Glad to see the judge call it a lie.

 
bilby said:
The preliminary injunction issued from the bench Thursday by US District Judge William Alsup requires the departments of Veterans Affairs, Agriculture, Defense, Energy, Interior and Treasury to rehire the employees. The judge said that he might extend the order to cover other federal agencies at a later time.

Alsup, an appointee of former President Bill Clinton...
Click to expand...
...has just put himself at the top of the list for the next round of firings.

Of course, it would be unlawful for Trump to fire him, but as Alsup must be fully aware, that minor detail has not been any kind of constraint up until now.
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Judicial branch judges, federal court judges, can't be fired by the Executive branch. ( Not talking about judges inside the executive branch like immigration judges or Trade commission judges).

Judicial branch judges can only be removed by impeachment by congress.

But they will probably try to impeach him.
 
^Yes. And it was a sham. Here's my understanding...

Congress, specifically the House, has the ability to initiate budget legislation. The Senate and House come up with the budget and the President signs off on it, enacting a law for the fiscal year, saying what will be spent, how much each dept gets for what purpose etc.

A rogue President cannot come along and usurp the power of Congress saying he wants his own budget for the govt and start mass laying off people for his own budgetary reasons. Congress would have had to enact a law he signed off on to do so.

Now the President IS the chief executive and can fire some low-level incompetent people, but not for budgetary reasons. He cannot let someone go for impeachable offenses either since that is Congress, too.

So, they did this unconstitutionally for budgetary reasons and to make it LOOK LIKE he had authority to do it, they pointed out these people were on probationary status so it would seem they were problem employees...so it would seem to fall under the purview of Presidential powers as chief executive. Many of the probationary status employees were simply new in their roles, though.

There is a lot of danger, too, because his party was ceding their authority to the President, creating an implicit precedent. It is necessary for judges to rule against this kind of thing all over the place to stop that precedent from forming and moving toward more authoritarianism.
 
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