The Stock Market

[TV and credit cards]

One of the big sticking points in a $1.8 trillion coronavirus bailout package Senate Republicans are trying to pass is a $500 billion fund for hard-hit businesses and state and local governments. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin would decide the recipients of $425 billion of that money, and the legislation contains no new oversight provisions for how it's doled out, leading Democrats to warn that Mnuchin could use this "slush fund" to bail out politically connected corporations, GOP donors, and even President Trump's private business.

When asked about those concerns during a press conference Monday evening, Trump said: "I'll be the oversight, I'll be the oversight. We're gonna make good deals."



Yeah, okay. Here Trump. Hold my wallet.

 

[Harry Bosch]

One of the big sticking points in a $1.8 trillion coronavirus bailout package Senate Republicans are trying to pass is a $500 billion fund for hard-hit businesses and state and local governments. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin would decide the recipients of $425 billion of that money, and the legislation contains no new oversight provisions for how it's doled out, leading Democrats to warn that Mnuchin could use this "slush fund" to bail out politically connected corporations, GOP donors, and even President Trump's private business.

When asked about those concerns during a press conference Monday evening, Trump said: "I'll be the oversight, I'll be the oversight. We're gonna make good deals."



Yeah, okay. Here Trump. Hold my wallet.

Well, what oversight would you like to see? Secondly, these are loans, not grants. These are companies that are 500 employees or less and non-profits. I don't think that many companies that small are going to be buying their stock back anytime soon (very few are publically traded). But most of them have zero sales right now. Most are retail and restaurant that aren't going to last long if they don't get aid. Workers are getting unemployment, which dosn't equal a full paycheck. They need something. Trump will get reelected if the dems allow it to be perceived that the dems are stalling the stimulus. And I have zero belief that the dems can win in the politics games.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

One of the big sticking points in a $1.8 trillion coronavirus bailout package Senate Republicans are trying to pass is a $500 billion fund for hard-hit businesses and state and local governments. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin would decide the recipients of $425 billion of that money, and the legislation contains no new oversight provisions for how it's doled out, leading Democrats to warn that Mnuchin could use this "slush fund" to bail out politically connected corporations, GOP donors, and even President Trump's private business.

When asked about those concerns during a press conference Monday evening, Trump said: "I'll be the oversight, I'll be the oversight. We're gonna make good deals."



Yeah, okay. Here Trump. Hold my wallet.

Well, what oversight would you like to see? Secondly, these are loans, not grants. These are companies that are 500 employees or less and non-profits. I don't think that many companies that small are going to be buying their stock back anytime soon (very few are publically traded). But most of them have zero sales right now. Most are retail and restaurant that aren't going to last long if they don't get aid. Workers are getting unemployment, which dosn't equal a full paycheck. They need something. Trump will get reelected if the dems allow it to be perceived that the dems are stalling the stimulus. And I have zero belief that the dems can win in the politics games.

There have been so many details, I'm losing touch with it all. I thought there was a fund for 500 and under corporations, but a large slush for other industries like airlines and whatnot. And the whole point of giving money to them would be to keep furloughs and layoffs from happening.

What is funny is the company I work for has grown quite a bit and is over the 500 limit and in terrible danger of going belly up as it has little in the way of assets and cash to fall back on due to the nature of being an engineering company..

 

[Elixir]

Just look at the STEM fields. You'll find an awful lot of jobs.

So that's a "No, I can't provide an example, but I can tell YOU where to look."
Quite as I predicted.

I pointed to a whole pool of them, that's a lot better than pointing to one specific one.

No, it's useless. It's like saying "people who work for companies". An even BIGGER pool, so must be "better".
My point is that hi-cap entities are not automatic outcomes of rich investors, nor are rich investors required for hi-cap employees, as my specific first hand example demonstrates.

BTW STEM fields are reft with people who can do most of their work on $1000 laptops.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Meanwhile, what job losses?

The Trump administration is asking state labor officials to delay releasing the precise number of unemployment claims they are fielding, an indication of how uneasy policymakers are about further roiling a stock market already plunging in response to the coronavirus outbreak.

In an email sent Wednesday, the Labor Department instructed state officials to only “provide information using generalities to describe claims levels (very high, large increase)” until the department releases the total number of national claims next Thursday.

The email, which was shared with The New York Times, noted that the reports were monitored closely by financial markets and should therefore remain embargoed. “States should not provide numeric values to the public,” wrote Gay Gilbert, the administrator of the department’s Office of Employment Insurance.

Republican run Ohio follows suit.

Husted said during a Monday’s daily briefing at the Ohio Statehouse that the state would no longer provide updates on on unemployment claims, citing guidance from the Trump Administration. An ODJFS spokesman later clarified that the state will release its weekly unemployment claims update on Thursday, when nationwide data is released.

“We’ve been asked by the U.S. Department of Labor not to release our numbers on unemployment, so we’re following that guidance,” Husted said.

 

[Harry Bosch]

One of the big sticking points in a $1.8 trillion coronavirus bailout package Senate Republicans are trying to pass is a $500 billion fund for hard-hit businesses and state and local governments. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin would decide the recipients of $425 billion of that money, and the legislation contains no new oversight provisions for how it's doled out, leading Democrats to warn that Mnuchin could use this "slush fund" to bail out politically connected corporations, GOP donors, and even President Trump's private business.

When asked about those concerns during a press conference Monday evening, Trump said: "I'll be the oversight, I'll be the oversight. We're gonna make good deals."



Yeah, okay. Here Trump. Hold my wallet.

Well, what oversight would you like to see? Secondly, these are loans, not grants. These are companies that are 500 employees or less and non-profits. I don't think that many companies that small are going to be buying their stock back anytime soon (very few are publically traded). But most of them have zero sales right now. Most are retail and restaurant that aren't going to last long if they don't get aid. Workers are getting unemployment, which dosn't equal a full paycheck. They need something. Trump will get reelected if the dems allow it to be perceived that the dems are stalling the stimulus. And I have zero belief that the dems can win in the politics games.

There have been so many details, I'm losing touch with it all. I thought there was a fund for 500 and under corporations, but a large slush for other industries like airlines and whatnot. And the whole point of giving money to them would be to keep furloughs and layoffs from happening.

What is funny is the company I work for has grown quite a bit and is over the 500 limit and in terrible danger of going belly up as it has little in the way of assets and cash to fall back on due to the nature of being an engineering company..

I could understand offering grants with strings, but these are loans. Loans to keep them in business; to bridge them until the economy restarts again. There should be no strings other than to comply with existing federal law IMO (such as fair lending, and etc.). Yes, the slush fund for the larger companies is more problematic. But it is also a loan program. And it's only 10% of the total. And I hate to say it, but Boeing employs thousands of Americans with very good wages and benefits. The republicans are very savvy politically and stand to make incredible gains if the dems are seen as playing politics with the stimulus.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

There have been so many details, I'm losing touch with it all. I thought there was a fund for 500 and under corporations, but a large slush for other industries like airlines and whatnot. And the whole point of giving money to them would be to keep furloughs and layoffs from happening.

What is funny is the company I work for has grown quite a bit and is over the 500 limit and in terrible danger of going belly up as it has little in the way of assets and cash to fall back on due to the nature of being an engineering company..

I could understand offering grants with strings, but these are loans. Loans to keep them in business; to bridge them until the economy restarts again. There should be no strings other than to comply with existing federal law IMO (such as fair lending, and etc.). Yes, the slush fund for the larger companies is more problematic. But it is also a loan program. And it's only 10% of the total. And I hate to say it, but Boeing employs thousands of Americans with very good wages and benefits. The republicans are very savvy politically and stand to make incredible gains if the dems are seen as playing politics with the stimulus.

Personally, I'm against giving loans to anyone. Companies need the payroll paid with depressed revenue that is never coming back, so they should be grants. But again, you can't lay anyone off.

I'm still for the $200 billion a week program that pays the payrolls for every company, period, but no layoffs! But the time to do that was near the end of February or early March, when a national stay at home order was put forth.

Electoral Vote.com notes this:

There appear to be three things, in particular, that are holding up the bill. The first, and apparently biggest, is the roughly $500 billion fund that Senate Republicans want to give to Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin to distribute as he sees fit, including the privilege of keeping the exact beneficiaries a secret until after the election. Team McConnell says that putting things in Mnuchin's hands allows maximum flexibility as circumstances on the ground change, while keeping things super-secret will stop the handouts from having an undue impact on the stock prices of corporate recipients.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Personally, I'm against giving loans to anyone. Companies need the payroll paid with depressed revenue that is never coming back, so they should be grants. But again, you can't lay anyone off.

I'm still for the $200 billion a week program that pays the payrolls for every company, period, but no layoffs! But the time to do that was near the end of February or early March, when a national stay at home order was put forth.

Electoral Vote.com notes this:

There appear to be three things, in particular, that are holding up the bill. The first, and apparently biggest, is the roughly $500 billion fund that Senate Republicans want to give to Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin to distribute as he sees fit, including the privilege of keeping the exact beneficiaries a secret until after the election. Team McConnell says that putting things in Mnuchin's hands allows maximum flexibility as circumstances on the ground change, while keeping things super-secret will stop the handouts from having an undue impact on the stock prices of corporate recipients.

Well, I can tell you from personal experience that most companies hate hate hate to lay workers off. It's so difficult to find and train good employees. Then to lay them off, you might never get them back. However, if a company runs out of cash, what can you do? It's better to lay them off and allow them to get unemployment and possibly find a better job.

I favor a low interest loan program because this would create a recurring fund that companies could dip into during times of national emergency. We're going to get through the cornavirus. But we know that another national emergency is coming. Whether it's another virus years from now, or something else, it's coming. But a national fund that is prefunded with little political crap tied to it that can be deployed quickly during an emergency would be a great idea. IMHO

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Personally, I'm against giving loans to anyone. Companies need the payroll paid with depressed revenue that is never coming back, so they should be grants. But again, you can't lay anyone off.

I'm still for the $200 billion a week program that pays the payrolls for every company, period, but no layoffs! But the time to do that was near the end of February or early March, when a national stay at home order was put forth.

Electoral Vote.com notes this:

There appear to be three things, in particular, that are holding up the bill. The first, and apparently biggest, is the roughly $500 billion fund that Senate Republicans want to give to Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin to distribute as he sees fit, including the privilege of keeping the exact beneficiaries a secret until after the election. Team McConnell says that putting things in Mnuchin's hands allows maximum flexibility as circumstances on the ground change, while keeping things super-secret will stop the handouts from having an undue impact on the stock prices of corporate recipients.

Well, I can tell you from personal experience that most companies hate hate hate to lay workers off. It's so difficult to find and train good employees. Then to lay them off, you might never get them back. However, if a company runs out of cash, what can you do? It's better to lay them off and allow them to get unemployment and possibly find a better job.

That is the trouble in this case. Revenues for many industries are collapsing, not merely slowing down. There is no way to afford the payroll when that happens so suddenly. This is an economic equivalent to an asteroid strike where the existing business models are entirely incapable of adapting.

I favor a low interest loan program because this would create a recurring fund that companies could dip into during times of national emergency.

But we are entering a freeze, not a recession. So I don't see how loans work. Demand evaporating eliminates revenue, this isn't merely a slowdown. Hence, this is a call for free money, but only works with a nationwide shutdown.

The Government is really running out of options here, are there any left really? Trump pulled a W equivalent with Afghanistan. The time to address the economic and bio related consequences was weeks ago (end of February/start of March). You can save employees in a payroll if they were already laid off! The US still only has a minority of states in a shutdown, and even those are adapting to becoming more conservative.

Trump has told states to stop releasing data on unemployment, and the unemployment system is about (currently) getting throttled. People will not get relief, will start dipping in to savings or suffering very shortly. A couple checks isn't going to cut it for too long.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Electoral Vote.com notes this:

There appear to be three things, in particular, that are holding up the bill. The first, and apparently biggest, is the roughly $500 billion fund that Senate Republicans want to give to Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin to distribute as he sees fit, including the privilege of keeping the exact beneficiaries a secret until after the election. Team McConnell says that putting things in Mnuchin's hands allows maximum flexibility as circumstances on the ground change, while keeping things super-secret will stop the handouts from having an undue impact on the stock prices of corporate recipients.

There are the two comments I don’t like. Why is Mnuchin in charge of doling it out and how does this not affect stock prices?

A political appointee in charge of these loans with what accountability? It’s all moving too fast for me so I have to say if the Dems were satisfied with the accountability, they’d push it through. That they are not is reason enough for me.

And how does hiding a company’s financials aid its stock price? Who invests in such companies? Not my money.

I don’t see the Dems being blamed for trying to have accountability for public money being shoveled out to corporate America. Not even the memories of Republican voters are this short.

I agree, money handed out should/should have been to cover paychecks. Other company overhead can be paid in arrears.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

One of the big sticking points in a $1.8 trillion coronavirus bailout package Senate Republicans are trying to pass is a $500 billion fund for hard-hit businesses and state and local governments. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin would decide the recipients of $425 billion of that money, and the legislation contains no new oversight provisions for how it's doled out, leading Democrats to warn that Mnuchin could use this "slush fund" to bail out politically connected corporations, GOP donors, and even President Trump's private business.

When asked about those concerns during a press conference Monday evening, Trump said: "I'll be the oversight, I'll be the oversight. We're gonna make good deals."



Yeah, okay. Here Trump. Hold my wallet.

Well, what oversight would you like to see? Secondly, these are loans, not grants. These are companies that are 500 employees or less and non-profits. I don't think that many companies that small are going to be buying their stock back anytime soon (very few are publically traded). But most of them have zero sales right now. Most are retail and restaurant that aren't going to last long if they don't get aid. Workers are getting unemployment, which dosn't equal a full paycheck. They need something. Trump will get reelected if the dems allow it to be perceived that the dems are stalling the stimulus. And I have zero belief that the dems can win in the politics games.

I don't know exactly what form it would take but I have a hard time believing this would be distributed remotely fairly. It's going to the ones who kowtow to His Flatulence and make bigly campaign contributions.

 

[ZiprHead]

One of the big sticking points in a $1.8 trillion coronavirus bailout package Senate Republicans are trying to pass is a $500 billion fund for hard-hit businesses and state and local governments. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin would decide the recipients of $425 billion of that money, and the legislation contains no new oversight provisions for how it's doled out, leading Democrats to warn that Mnuchin could use this "slush fund" to bail out politically connected corporations, GOP donors, and even President Trump's private business.

When asked about those concerns during a press conference Monday evening, Trump said: "I'll be the oversight, I'll be the oversight. We're gonna make good deals."



Yeah, okay. Here Trump. Hold my wallet.

One of Randi Rhodes' favorite phrases is "In chaos they can steal".

 

[TV and credit cards]

Kiplinger

"Over the last 10 years, in the wake of the financial crisis, airlines have bought back $45 billion of stock. Today the airline industry is asking for approximately $50 billion of aid to bail them out. This creates the potential for a political nightmare. The people who thought that the bailout of the big companies was bad in the financial crisis are going to look at this and say, 'Why don't we let these people just go bankrupt?'"

Fuckin A right.

-The People

 

[TV and credit cards]

Enjoy your Dead Cat Bounce? If I'm using the term correctly. Now, can there be any good news going forward? I see nothing but ugly on the horizon.

The big 2T stimulator is injected into market psychology. And who cares? They can inject all the liquidity they want. They can't inject consumer confidence. And Trump trying to hide unemployment data and encourage people to go out and spend will only work against that confidence. What it can do is really mess things up. We could end up being history's poster child for how not to handle a pandemic. If Trump strong-arms states to open up and we get a second wave, it will be devastating. Not just to the US but to the world's globalized supply chains. I expect he'll back down.
Money is needed for economic survival not economic stimulation.

21 states have shut down all non-essential business. That includes the world's fifth largest economy, California and the fifteenth, New York. Plus 19 small fries like PA, OH, IL, NJ, etc. Economic news is just coming in from China and it is far worse than expected. And now, with their supply chains wanting to feed the world, they'll have to wait for the rest of us.

I hear best case scenario is mid May if Trump doesn't fuck this up. What are the odds Trump doesn't listen to any prudent advice and goes with his gut/Kudlow. Anyone want to invest in Trump's gut? You're in for a lot of Dollar Cost Averaging along the way.
I wish McConnell & Co would/could shut him up. Insist that the professionals address the nation.

Trump
Pence
2016
How You Like Me Now?​

 

[Harry Bosch]

Enjoy your Dead Cat Bounce? If I'm using the term correctly. Now, can there be any good news going forward? I see nothing but ugly on the horizon.

The big 2T stimulator is injected into market psychology. And who cares? They can inject all the liquidity they want. They can't inject consumer confidence. And Trump trying to hide unemployment data and encourage people to go out and spend will only work against that confidence. What it can do is really mess things up. We could end up being history's poster child for how not to handle a pandemic. If Trump strong-arms states to open up and we get a second wave, it will be devastating. Not just to the US but to the world's globalized supply chains. I expect he'll back down.
Money is needed for economic survival not economic stimulation.

21 states have shut down all non-essential business. That includes the world's fifth largest economy, California and the fifteenth, New York. Plus 19 small fries like PA, OH, IL, NJ, etc. Economic news is just coming in from China and it is far worse than expected. And now, with their supply chains wanting to feed the world, they'll have to wait for the rest of us.

I hear best case scenario is mid May if Trump doesn't fuck this up. What are the odds Trump doesn't listen to any prudent advice and goes with his gut/Kudlow. Anyone want to invest in Trump's gut? You're in for a lot of Dollar Cost Averaging along the way.
I wish McConnell & Co would/could shut him up. Insist that the professionals address the nation.

Trump
Pence
2016
How You Like Me Now?​

Well, it could have been a lot worse. I think that it would have been a disaster if dems had used stock buybacks in the past as an excuse to delay the stimulus. Most voters don't understand what a stock buyback is. But they do know that they need jobs. And this package will keep some companies afloat and able to provide jobs after this virus is over. People vote their pocketbook first.

Trump will be heavily condemned in the months following this due to his mismanagement of the crisis at the beginning.

 

[Harry Bosch]

One of the big sticking points in a $1.8 trillion coronavirus bailout package Senate Republicans are trying to pass is a $500 billion fund for hard-hit businesses and state and local governments. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin would decide the recipients of $425 billion of that money, and the legislation contains no new oversight provisions for how it's doled out, leading Democrats to warn that Mnuchin could use this "slush fund" to bail out politically connected corporations, GOP donors, and even President Trump's private business.

When asked about those concerns during a press conference Monday evening, Trump said: "I'll be the oversight, I'll be the oversight. We're gonna make good deals."



Yeah, okay. Here Trump. Hold my wallet.

Well, what oversight would you like to see? Secondly, these are loans, not grants. These are companies that are 500 employees or less and non-profits. I don't think that many companies that small are going to be buying their stock back anytime soon (very few are publically traded). But most of them have zero sales right now. Most are retail and restaurant that aren't going to last long if they don't get aid. Workers are getting unemployment, which dosn't equal a full paycheck. They need something. Trump will get reelected if the dems allow it to be perceived that the dems are stalling the stimulus. And I have zero belief that the dems can win in the politics games.

I don't know exactly what form it would take but I have a hard time believing this would be distributed remotely fairly. It's going to the ones who kowtow to His Flatulence and make bigly campaign contributions.

Well, there are existing SBA products right now that have been functioning well for years: the SBA 504 and 7a programs. These are not political programs.

 

[funinspace]

Trump
Pence
2016
How You Like Me Now?​

Trump
Pence
2020
I Want to Fuck You Like an Animal​

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Enjoy your Dead Cat Bounce? If I'm using the term correctly. Now, can there be any good news going forward? I see nothing but ugly on the horizon.

The big 2T stimulator is injected into market psychology. And who cares? They can inject all the liquidity they want. They can't inject consumer confidence. And Trump trying to hide unemployment data and encourage people to go out and spend will only work against that confidence. What it can do is really mess things up. We could end up being history's poster child for how not to handle a pandemic. If Trump strong-arms states to open up and we get a second wave, it will be devastating. Not just to the US but to the world's globalized supply chains. I expect he'll back down.
Money is needed for economic survival not economic stimulation.

21 states have shut down all non-essential business. That includes the world's fifth largest economy, California and the fifteenth, New York. Plus 19 small fries like PA, OH, IL, NJ, etc. Economic news is just coming in from China and it is far worse than expected. And now, with their supply chains wanting to feed the world, they'll have to wait for the rest of us.

I hear best case scenario is mid May if Trump doesn't fuck this up. What are the odds Trump doesn't listen to any prudent advice and goes with his gut/Kudlow. Anyone want to invest in Trump's gut? You're in for a lot of Dollar Cost Averaging along the way.
I wish McConnell & Co would/could shut him up. Insist that the professionals address the nation.

Trump
Pence
2016
How You Like Me Now?​

Well, it could have been a lot worse. I think that it would have been a disaster if dems had used stock buybacks in the past as an excuse to delay the stimulus. Most voters don't understand what a stock buyback is. But they do know that they need jobs. And this package will keep some companies afloat and able to provide jobs after this virus is over. People vote their pocketbook first.

Trump will be heavily condemned in the months following this due to his mismanagement of the crisis at the beginning.

Stock buybacks were a second-tier hurdle. #1 was letting SCROTUS decide, in secret, who would get the money. NFW.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Trump
Pence
2016
How You Like Me Now?​

Trump
Pence
2020
I Want to Fuck You Like an Animal​

Are you trying to say that dems should fight the stimulus to prevent the market from recovering in order to hurt Trump?

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Trump
Pence
2016
How You Like Me Now?​

Trump
Pence
2020
I Want to Fuck You Like an Animal​

Are you trying to say that dems should fight the stimulus to prevent the market from recovering in order to hurt Trump?

Trump would be the fucker, not the fuckee.