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The trials of the Capitol assaulters

Other presidential clemencies are very much relevant to the discussion of Trump's. Trump does not exist in a vacuum, he can and should be compared to other presidents, such as Biden.
No other president has pardoned anti government insurrectionists.
Never.

Hell, back in the 50s people were executed for Trump's behavior concerning top secret military documents.
Tom
 
The part that keeps stunning me is people like @Derec referring to the violent insurrectionists who tried to overthrow the USA government as "trespassers".
Most of the 1,500 or so J6ers were just that. Some attacked police, and those do deserve jail time.

In most places for most of history they wouldn't have gotten off the Capitol steps alive.
I doubt it.
 
You did not lead with that one, but once again, you come up with someone who is a not a white male.
It is not my fault that that's the kind of violent extremists Dem presidents like to commute sentences for.
David Gilbert is a white male, but he was convicted on state charges, and thus he was freed by Cuomo and not Biden. Just as wrong, but you can't play race and gender card there.
Are you really that self unaware?
I am self-aware, but that is not relevant here. I am also aware that a disproportionate share of left-wing extremists, including violent ones, are non-white and female. It's hardly surprising that violent Puerto Rican separatists, or violent Amerindian extremists are non-white for example.

Your suspicions about motivations based on race reflect on your obsession about race, not reality.
You really think that if Peltier was a white nationalist who murdered FBI agents instead of an Amerindian nationalist who murdered FBI agents that there would be a) clamoring from the Left to release him and b) a snowball's chance in hell for Biden to actually commute his sentence?

This has nothing to do with any imaginary obsessions you think I have and everything with racial politics in the US.
 
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The people who are fine with this are always fine with police use of violence. It is a shame they didn't cut these people down.
I am not fine with this. Those among J6ers who attacked police officers or otherwise committed violent crimes should have stayed in prison. But then again, so should Leonard Peltier. And Oscar López Rivera for that matter.
I don't think anyone would mistake a commuting of sentence for Peltier or anyone in Weather Underground to be an endorsement of the violence committed several decades ago
What is it endorsement of then?
(heck, I would expect most people under the age of 40 would think Weather Underground was a weather website).
Just because a lot of Millennials and Gen Z are woefully uninformed about anything they don't see on TikTok does not mean it was justifiable to let murderous WU terrorists free. Btw, unlike J6ers, WU and the allied BLA had an explicitly insurrectionist goal to overthrow the US government.
Unlike this very broad set of pardons, which sends a chilling message.
Again, I don't support these pardons. But neither do I support freeing people who set bombs as a political tactic or with people who murdered FBI agents in cold blood.
 
Last night I read quite a bit about the life of Peltier and I've decided that anyone with an ounce of compassion would agree that he has served far more than necessary. When he was a boy, he was taken away from his tribe, and forced to attend a white school, in an attempt to force him to give up his Native American Culture.
How does that justify murder?
As a young adult, he became an activist to work against the brutality that many Native American were facing from the police.
Activist? You mean terrorist.
He didn't have a fair trial as a lot of evidence wasn't permitted to be shown. While he did admit guilt, I'm sure well informed Americans know that sometimes people are treated in ways that lead them to exhaustion and they admit guilt to crimes they never committed.
He also admitted he did it to Anna Mae Aquash (a fellow AIMer), who then was executed by AIM members when they started suspecting taht she was an informant, with possible (probable?) involvement by Peltier.
In These Times said:
Specifically, [Ka-Mook Nichols] stated that in the months following the shooting, Peltier, speaking to Pictou-Aquash and her, said of one of the FBI agents, “The motherfucker was begging for his life, but I shot him anyway.” With regard to Pictou-Aquash, whom some AIM leaders mistakenly believed was an FBI informant, Nichols said Peltier told her “he believed she was a fed and that he was going to get some truth serum and give it to her so that she would tell the truth.”
The Truth About Leonard
Peltier has been the darling of the LWNJs and also of the glitterati like Marlon Brando, but he is really a piece of shit.

So, regardless of how I might sometimes feel about our constitution permitting presidential pardons, I think commuting the prison sentence of Peltier was the right thing to do. In fact, I think it should have been done years ago, all things considered.
Would you feel the same if it was a white nationalist and not an Amerindian nationalist under similar circumstances, i.e. admits to shootout (and thus felony murder) but officially denies the execution style murder, but then again there is witness, a fellow white nationalist, who claims that he admitted to executing the agents even though one of them was "begging for his life"?
The first was an unjust act, and the second was an act of compassion.
I say both were unjust acts.
And, these so called violent militias are now permitted to get some "mothafuckin" guns. Just what do you think they might have in mind?
Maybe they can fight the militias who were not even prosecuted for their insurrectionist occupations of sovereign US territory in places like Seattle and Atlanta in 2020.
 
The guy with his feet up on Pelosi's desk was looking for Pelosi so he could murder her, torture her, or terrorize her, something really bad anyway in order to effect political change such as stop the legitimate President from eventually taking office.
Do you have any evidence for that?
 
The guy with his feet up on Pelosi's desk was looking for Pelosi so he could murder her, torture her, or terrorize her, something really bad anyway in order to effect political change such as stop the legitimate President from eventually taking office.
Do you have any evidence for that?

Holy Bejeebus, he brought a stun gun and was looking for her. Next, are you going to ask for evidence that the people screaming to hang Mike Pence weren't going to hurt him if they found him?
 
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The people who are fine with this are always fine with police use of violence. It is a shame they didn't cut these people down.
I am not fine with this. Those among J6ers who attacked police officers or otherwise committed violent crimes should have stayed in prison. But then again, so should Leonard Peltier. And Oscar López Rivera for that matter.
Peltier served nearly 5 decades in a prison. Rivera over three decades. These were long detainments.
I don't think anyone would mistake a commuting of sentence for Peltier or anyone in Weather Underground to be an endorsement of the violence committed several decades ago
What is it endorsement of then?
Letting people out of prisons when they get really old.
(heck, I would expect most people under the age of 40 would think Weather Underground was a weather website).
Just because a lot of Millennials and Gen Z are woefully uninformed about anything they don't see on TikTok does not mean it was justifiable to let murderous WU terrorists free.
The point it, it isn't sending a message, releasing people older than Trump from prison. No one knows about Peltier or Rivera or Weather Underground who is 40 or younger. Recidivism isn't a threat. They are old. You keep trying to make such actions seem like some grand gesture to an extinct cause.
Btw, unlike J6ers, WU and the allied BLA had an explicitly insurrectionist goal to overthrow the US government.
Of course, the J6ers got riled into a frenzy and tried, en masse. Once the rush started dying off, it became more of a prank. But during their riot boner, they had seriously bad legal intent. Trump and his minions saw to it. So they shouldn't get a pass because security successfully managed to get Congress to safety.
Unlike this very broad set of pardons, which sends a chilling message.
Again, I don't support these pardons.
Your whataboutisms on non-congruent cases really implies you think some portion of this is justified.
But neither do I support freeing people who set bombs as a political tactic or with people who murdered FBI agents in cold blood.
But this isn't the Hobby Horse thread. This is a thread about Trump's rioters, who he just let get off on trying to overthrow an election he knowingly falsely claimed was stolen from him.
 
The guy with his feet up on Pelosi's desk was looking for Pelosi so he could murder her, torture her, or terrorize her, something really bad anyway in order to effect political change such as stop the legitimate President from eventually taking office.
Do you have any evidence for that?

Holy Bejeebus, he brought a stun gun and was looking for her. Next, are you going to ask for evidence that the people screaming to hang Mike Pence weren't going to hurt him if they found him?
Well Of course, silly. It was an empty threat just like “lock her up” and “build the wall”. Other things that never happened despite Trump getting his followers to chant it like mindless drones. It was a “day of love” after all.

If there were truly a threat anybody’s lives in the Capitol then surely the President would have acted to stop it. I mean, c’mon, right??
 
You did not lead with that one, but once again, you come up with someone who is a not a white male.
It is not my fault that that's the kind of violent extremists Dem presidents like to commute sentences for…..
You carefully selected your examples to include only people of color. You chose to bring up the lack of moral high ground of Democrats in a thread about the trials of the Capitol assaulters. You constantly trivialize the actions of the white nationalist insurrectionist rioters. You impute racist motivations onto others. Those are mot imaginings but facts.
 
The guy with his feet up on Pelosi's desk was looking for Pelosi so he could murder her, torture her, or terrorize her, something really bad anyway in order to effect political change such as stop the legitimate President from eventually taking office.
Do you have any evidence for that?

Holy Bejeebus, he brought a stun gun and was looking for her. Next, are you going to ask for evidence that the people screaming to hang Mike Pence weren't going to hurt him if they found him?
Well Of course, silly. It was an empty threat just like “lock her up” and “build the wall”. Other things that never happened despite Trump getting his followers to chant it like mindless drones. It was a “day of love” after all.

Of course. What was I thinking? The guy with the zip ties just brought them to tie up the garbage bags and take them out, too.
 
The part that keeps stunning me is people like @Derec referring to the violent insurrectionists who tried to overthrow the USA government as "trespassers".
Most of the 1,500 or so J6ers were just that.
You're not taking into account the purpose of their trespass and the potential for violence if they had actually caught a MOC.

 
The part that keeps stunning me is people like @Derec referring to the violent insurrectionists who tried to overthrow the USA government as "trespassers".
Most of the 1,500 or so J6ers were just that.

And most did not receive very harsh sentences for the trespassing.

Some attacked police, and those do deserve jail time.

The President disagrees with you.

In most places for most of history they wouldn't have gotten off the Capitol steps alive.
I doubt it.
According to standards upheld by many on this board, the cops had a right to open fire but surprisingly did not (except in one case).
 
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