The vanguard of the Caravan is already in Mexico City, more than halfway to the border

[PyramidHead]

What is missed, or ignored, by those in this thread that are upset that the caravan is not allowed in is that the U.S. is one of the most welcoming nations on the planet to immigration. Approximately a million immigrants are allowed entry and citizenship each year. This caravan consists of those who don't want to be bothered by going through the legal process and think they deserve to cut in line ahead of those already waiting for their legal access.

1. Do you know these people and their intentions somehow?

Intentions? You seem to believe that you know their intentions judging by the two straw men I clipped from your post? I only stated that the U.S. has one of the most liberal and generous immigration policies on the planet and allow about a million immigrants entry and citizenship each year. If those in the caravan want access then they should demonstrate that they would be honest law abiding U.S. citizens if given citizenship then they should start by following the immigration laws.

What laws are they breaking or do they demonstrably plan to break? Is there a law against walking towards the United States?

 

[skepticalbip]

Intentions? You seem to believe that you know their intentions judging by the two straw men I clipped from your post? I only stated that the U.S. has one of the most liberal and generous immigration policies on the planet and allow about a million immigrants entry and citizenship each year. If those in the caravan want access then they should demonstrate that they would be honest law abiding U.S. citizens if given citizenship then they should start by following the immigration laws.

What laws are they breaking or do they demonstrably plan to break? Is there a law against walking towards the United States?

What news do you read? Whatever it is, you should consider trying a new source.

Pretty much all news outlets covered their storming of the border in southern Mexico and seriously injuring several Mexican police.

Last week Al Jazeera reported that about six hundred of the caravan were caught and arrested illegally crossing into the U.S.

The BBC just reported that about one hundred of those involved in the storming of the border incident yesterday where the U.S. border patrol used tear gas to repel have been deported by Mexico.

 

[ZiprHead]

Migrant mom falls off border fence, is impaled in front of her kids

 

[PyramidHead]

Intentions? You seem to believe that you know their intentions judging by the two straw men I clipped from your post? I only stated that the U.S. has one of the most liberal and generous immigration policies on the planet and allow about a million immigrants entry and citizenship each year. If those in the caravan want access then they should demonstrate that they would be honest law abiding U.S. citizens if given citizenship then they should start by following the immigration laws.

What laws are they breaking or do they demonstrably plan to break? Is there a law against walking towards the United States?

What news do you read? Whatever it is, you should consider trying a new source.

Pretty much all news outlets covered their storming of the border in southern Mexico and seriously injuring several Mexican police.

Last week Al Jazeera reported that about six hundred of the caravan were caught and arrested illegally crossing into the U.S.

The BBC just reported that about one hundred of those involved in the storming of the border incident yesterday where the U.S. border patrol used tear gas to repel have been deported by Mexico.

And this, you would say, is a justified use of tear gas? To attack desperate poor people and their families? I don't share your view of who is in the wrong here. Nothing justifies treating people as dispensable, least of all the interests of a nation that (a) played a large role in creating the conditions of their hardship and (b) have no moral standing to denounce their migration without also denouncing the colonization that established America itself, far more invasive and destructive than anything the caravan could muster.

You know, the United States exercises plenty of leniency and restraint in which of its laws it chooses to enforce and how. Something being illegal is not, in itself, a license for any and all measures of retaliation to be taken against the behavior. Lots of laws are never enforced, or only lightly enforced until they are finally taken off the books. So, I'm not impressed by appeals to the law regarding how to treat fellow human beings who want to live somewhere other than their place of birth. And I'm not scared of poor people who attack police officers. I'm scared of police officers who attack poor people.

 

[skepticalbip]

What news do you read? Whatever it is, you should consider trying a new source.

Pretty much all news outlets covered their storming of the border in southern Mexico and seriously injuring several Mexican police.

Last week Al Jazeera reported that about six hundred of the caravan were caught and arrested illegally crossing into the U.S.

The BBC just reported that about one hundred of those involved in the storming of the border incident yesterday where the U.S. border patrol used tear gas to repel have been deported by Mexico.

And this, you would say, is a justified use of tear gas? To attack desperate poor people and their families? I don't share your view of who is in the wrong here. Nothing justifies treating people as dispensable, least of all the interests of a nation that (a) played a large role in creating the conditions of their hardship and (b) have no moral standing to denounce their migration without also denouncing the colonization that established America itself, far more invasive and destructive than anything the caravan could muster.

You know, the United States exercises plenty of leniency and restraint in which of its laws it chooses to enforce and how. Something being illegal is not, in itself, a license for any and all measures of retaliation to be taken against the behavior. Lots of laws are never enforced, or only lightly enforced until they are finally taken off the books. So, I'm not impressed by appeals to the law regarding how to treat fellow human beings who want to live somewhere other than their place of birth. And I'm not scared of poor people who attack police officers. I'm scared of police officers who attack poor people.

You have a strange understanding of the word, "attack".

Five or six hundred people running at the border guards while throwing stones and bottles at them is hardly a peaceful action. Were the guards supposed to just stand there and be run over? The guards knew what the mob had done to the Mexican police. The use of mustard gas to break up that mob did no permanent harm, only temporary discomfort. A physical confrontation to stop them would have resulted in serious injuries on both sides.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Pulling up roots and traveling thousands of miles to abandon their former homes in search of something better is an act of independent agency. Or is that only noble when Europeans do it?

"Search for something better" is not a valid grounds for asylum. Maybe they should exercise their independent agency to make their home countries better.

... that's what asylum is. What is seeking asylum if not "searching for a situation better than the one you are currently in"??

 

[Elixir]

Pulling up roots and traveling thousands of miles to abandon their former homes in search of something better is an act of independent agency. Or is that only noble when Europeans do it?

"Search for something better" is not a valid grounds for asylum. Maybe they should exercise their independent agency to make their home countries better.

... that's what asylum is. What is seeking asylum if not "searching for a situation better than the one you are currently in"??

The alt-right definition of someone eligible for asylum seems to be "a person who has died a violent death from a conflict in which they were not a participant".
If you have not yet died of such causes, Trump will be happy to arrange for your eligibility.

 

[skepticalbip]

Pulling up roots and traveling thousands of miles to abandon their former homes in search of something better is an act of independent agency. Or is that only noble when Europeans do it?

"Search for something better" is not a valid grounds for asylum. Maybe they should exercise their independent agency to make their home countries better.

... that's what asylum is. What is seeking asylum if not "searching for a situation better than the one you are currently in"??

Asylum is sanctuary from imminent political threat.

 

[PyramidHead]

What news do you read? Whatever it is, you should consider trying a new source.

Pretty much all news outlets covered their storming of the border in southern Mexico and seriously injuring several Mexican police.

Last week Al Jazeera reported that about six hundred of the caravan were caught and arrested illegally crossing into the U.S.

The BBC just reported that about one hundred of those involved in the storming of the border incident yesterday where the U.S. border patrol used tear gas to repel have been deported by Mexico.

And this, you would say, is a justified use of tear gas? To attack desperate poor people and their families? I don't share your view of who is in the wrong here. Nothing justifies treating people as dispensable, least of all the interests of a nation that (a) played a large role in creating the conditions of their hardship and (b) have no moral standing to denounce their migration without also denouncing the colonization that established America itself, far more invasive and destructive than anything the caravan could muster.

You know, the United States exercises plenty of leniency and restraint in which of its laws it chooses to enforce and how. Something being illegal is not, in itself, a license for any and all measures of retaliation to be taken against the behavior. Lots of laws are never enforced, or only lightly enforced until they are finally taken off the books. So, I'm not impressed by appeals to the law regarding how to treat fellow human beings who want to live somewhere other than their place of birth. And I'm not scared of poor people who attack police officers. I'm scared of police officers who attack poor people.

You have a strange understanding of the word, "attack".

Five or six hundred people running at the border guards while throwing stones and bottles at them is hardly a peaceful action. Were the guards supposed to just stand there and be run over? The guards knew what the mob had done to the Mexican police. The use of mustard gas to break up that mob did no permanent harm, only temporary discomfort. A physical confrontation to stop them would have resulted in serious injuries on both sides.

Don't fall for the propaganda. You make it seem like they came running at the border fence like a horde of barbarians. Many of them were just standing around the fence looking over the border, and a lot of the rock throwing was in retaliation to seeing children getting fucking gassed.

As usual, I can always count on the proponents of 'small government' to swallow every rationalization that uniformed agents of state power provide for themselves. You talk about the news media as if there is any way to get as charitable a treatment of the Hondurans, Guatemalans, and El Salvadorians as they give to the guys in riot gear with chemical weapons. One side has the benefit of official spokespeople, teams of lawyers, and decades of quid-pro-quo with the major broadcasting companies who disseminate the news. The other side gets to comment on their perspective if they happen to be asked about it by a reporter with a translator. I know a little about history, so I'll continue to assume that the border patrol agents are doing what they usually do, which is to protect the interests of the wealthy at the expense of everyone else under the guise of making us safer.

 

[skepticalbip]

You have a strange understanding of the word, "attack".

Five or six hundred people running at the border guards while throwing stones and bottles at them is hardly a peaceful action. Were the guards supposed to just stand there and be run over? The guards knew what the mob had done to the Mexican police. The use of mustard gas to break up that mob did no permanent harm, only temporary discomfort. A physical confrontation to stop them would have resulted in serious injuries on both sides.

Don't fall for the propaganda. You make it seem like they came running at the border fence like a horde of barbarians. Many of them were just standing around the fence looking over the border, and a lot of the rock throwing was in retaliation to seeing children getting fucking gassed.

As usual, I can always count on the proponents of 'small government' to swallow every rationalization that uniformed agents of state power provide for themselves. You talk about the news media as if there is any way to get as charitable a treatment of the Hondurans, Guatemalans, and El Salvadorians as they give to the guys in riot gear with chemical weapons. One side has the benefit of official spokespeople, teams of lawyers, and decades of quid-pro-quo with the major broadcasting companies who disseminate the news. The other side gets to comment on their perspective if they happen to be asked about it by a reporter with a translator. I know a little about history, so I'll continue to assume that the border patrol agents are doing what they usually do, which is to protect the interests of the wealthy at the expense of everyone else under the guise of making us safer.

Yet again dude, where the hell do you get your news? Mexican news agencies reported that the mob broke through the Mexican police line (a few were caught) then through the fence on the Mexican side of the Tijuana river. Hundreds then stormed across the Tijuana river and rushed the fence on the U.S. side of the river. This is where the confrontation happened and the mob was broken up with mustard gas. The Mexican authorities only identified about a hundred of them and deported them.

ETA:
Or is it that you don't read news reports and just make up stories to fit what you want to believe?

The U.S. news media seem to like to show video of people standing at the fence at International Park or Playa Tijuana. That isn't where this incident happened.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

... that's what asylum is. What is seeking asylum if not "searching for a situation better than the one you are currently in"??

Asylum is sanctuary from imminent political threat.

Oh.

 

[Derec]

The alt-right definition of someone eligible for asylum seems to be "a person who has died a violent death from a conflict in which they were not a participant".
If you have not yet died of such causes, Trump will be happy to arrange for your eligibility.

The alt-left definition of someone eligible for asylum seems to be anybody who is seeking a better life.

 

[Derec]

"Search for something better" is not a valid grounds for asylum. Maybe they should exercise their independent agency to make their home countries better.

... that's what asylum is. What is seeking asylum if not "searching for a situation better than the one you are currently in"??

That's not what asylum is. It's protection from persecution by powers that be. Just looking for a better situation is hardly sufficient, as that applies to pretty much all immigrants.
What you want is use of asylum to facilitate unrestricted immigration. That is what's basically happening in Europe - every illegal migrant that is arriving at Europe's shores is demanding "asylum" no matter the reason they have come.

 

[Derec]

Migrant mom falls off border fence, is impaled in front of her kids

That's US's fault for building fences and certainly not the illegal migrant's fault for climbing over a border fence illegally! </progresso-authoritarian>

 

[blastula]

The alt-right definition of someone eligible for asylum seems to be "a person who has died a violent death from a conflict in which they were not a participant".
If you have not yet died of such causes, Trump will be happy to arrange for your eligibility.

The alt-left definition of someone eligible for asylum seems to be anybody who is seeking a better life.

Everyone is eligible to request asylum, and the US is legally required to process their requests.

 

[Elixir]

The alt-right definition of someone eligible for asylum seems to be "a person who has died a violent death from a conflict in which they were not a participant".
If you have not yet died of such causes, Trump will be happy to arrange for your eligibility.

The alt-left definition of someone eligible for asylum seems to be anybody who is seeking a better life.

Everyone is eligible to request asylum, and the US is legally required to process their requests.

Legally schmeagally! If they're looking for a better life they should have been fucking BORN here!
No - wait. They should have been WHITE and born here! </Alt-white moronics>

 

[Derec]

Everyone is eligible to request asylum, and the US is legally required to process their requests.

If they are requesting asylum without having a legitimate reason for asylum

Again, you and other open borders advocates just want to misuse the asylum system to facilitate mass migration. Just like what's been happening in Europe.

 

[blastula]

A request doesn't mean they will be approved. Most of them will be rejected. It's called due process. It makes tear gassing scenes unnecessary.

 

[untermensche]

Everyone is eligible to request asylum, and the US is legally required to process their requests.

If they are requesting asylum without having a legitimate reason for asylum..

You actually have to talk to them first to know this.

Is fleeing the effects of climate change good enough?

 

[Elixir]

Everyone is eligible to request asylum, and the US is legally required to process their requests.

If they are requesting asylum without having a legitimate reason for asylum

Again, you and other open borders advocates just want to misuse the asylum system to facilitate mass migration. Just like what's been happening in Europe.

Such bullshit. Not having legitimate claims to asylum IS WHY THEY HAVE HEARINGS. If their claim is not legitimate, they are DEPORTED.
Wanting them to have hearings to which they are LEGALLY ENTITLED is NOT wanting "open borders" or misusing the asylum system.
You don't want them to get hearings - just gas 'em - or shoot 'em if they throw rocks. Make 'em go home, right?
Sorry pal - you need to GET THE LAW changed if you want your bigotry institutionalized.

As usual, consider the source of the bigoted characterizations - that alone should suffice to dismiss them.