The Virus - Are You Affected?

[lpetrich]

What It's Really Like to Quarantine in San Francisco - YouTube by Rebecca Watson

I like that -- it hasn't been very horrible for her, certainly not what right-wingers seem to imagine it is.

The Medical Mask Becomes a Protest Symbol - The New York Times - "Commentators on the right have tried to paint the mask as a cowardly affectation. A flood of masked demonstrators tells a different story."

It is the pandemic’s defining symbol, a visual stand-in for the coronavirus itself. In America, the medical mask used to be confined to hospital dramas and operating rooms, but now the bare face is what registers as a choice. The mask is a public health device, but it has also revealed itself as a mask in the more traditional sense: a tool in a social ritual, a fetish object that signifies a person’s politics, gender expression and relationship to truth itself.

To its supporters, mask-wearing is a visual expression of civic duty, an affirmation of scientific authority and a show of respect. To its critics, it is a sign of weakness, emasculation and deceit. Most Americans accept the medical benefits of masks, but the ones who do not are, more often than not, Republican and male.

That's Trump's main demographic, it seems.

Among their ranks is R.R. Reno, the editor of the conservative religious journal First Things (“Masks = enforced cowardice,” he wrote in a Twitter rant about the mask “regime”), and Donald Trump. (“Somehow, I don’t see it for myself,” he said, even as he announced the C.D.C. guideline urging people to wear masks in public.) Last month, as a maskless Trump toured an Arizona mask factory, his supporters heckled the masked reporter BrieAnna J. Frank outside. “It’s submission, it’s muzzling yourself, it looks weak — especially for men,” one man told her.

To these men, masking signals not just cowardice but hypocrisy. Mask-wearers stand accused of cowering in fear, but also of cynically exaggerating the virus’s threat. The mask is cast as both a defensive shield and an accessory in a masquerade of political correctness. A recent email from the Trump campaign called Joe Biden a “basement dweller and virtue signaler,” and accused him of colluding with “the media mask-shamers” to deceive the public by only covering up when the cameras were rolling.

The implication is that people who choose to wear masks aren’t just protecting themselves — they’re attacking the president and his supporters. Recently a sign appeared on the door of a Texas restaurant banning masks: “Due to our concern for our customers, if they FEEL (not think), that they need to wear a mask, they should stay home until they FEEL that it’s safe to be in public without one,” it read.

 

[Politesse]

What It's Really Like to Quarantine in San Francisco - YouTube by Rebecca Watson

I like that -- it hasn't been very horrible for her, certainly not what right-wingers seem to imagine it is.

I really jive with that! Despite living in this state for most of my life aside from the odd research trip abroad, I barely even recognize the "California" that right-wing media sources seem to believe exists. Yet conservative Californians clearly seem to agree that they do in fact live in the virtueless hell-hole Trump et al claim exists here? It's weird. And Europeans should realize, they feel the same way about your entire continent, that everyone who lives there is desperately miserable due to over-exposure to basic compassion, dignity, and education.

I'm glad I live somewhere where the stores and so forth voluntarily enforce basic disease prevention measures, I don't want to have to fight the entire patriarchy or whatever just to buy a bag of chips without falling over dead two weeks later because some idiot coughed on me. And I'm glad my employer isn't expecting me to drive in to work, potentially infecting hundreds of students with a potentially fatal virus picked up two counties away, for no truly pressing academic reason.

 

[bilby]

Can you please provide me with some links? This is something I've been tracking fairly judiciously for work. If you've got reliable current sources that suggest it's not nearly as bad as my industry and profession are currently assuming, it would be very helpful.

If you have been tracking this as you say you are, then you will know that the vast, VAST majority of people who contract the virus show no symptoms or mild symptoms, those that do show symptoms that are more severe most will recover and the the ones that die are in the upper age bracket usually with other health issues. i.e. one foot in the grave and the other on a banana skin. In California, anywhere between 50% to 65% of the deaths (depending on city) have been in care homes. The lockdown did these poor souls no favors.

The curve has been flattened and the health services never came close to being overrun in most places.

Anyway, lockdown is almost lifted (such as it was) so it is a moo point.

Is "moo point" a synonym for "load of bull"?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Aha... just what we need now, another outbreak of Ebola. Let's hope this one doesn't become a pandemic as well.

https://www.who.int/csr/don/14-May-2020-ebola-drc/en/

 

[DrZoidberg]

I have a friend who is a consultant for statistics. He's been working with the Botswana government for a long time. He mentioned that Botswana is doing exactly nothing about Covid-19, because they don't have to. All those in the at risk group are already dead in AIDS.

The Botswana government still has put a bunch of rules and regulations about Covid-19. But it's just for show. They are all aware that trying to limit Covid-19 in Botswana is a waste of time.

Sobering... and a bit depressing.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I have a friend who is a consultant for statistics. He's been working with the Botswana government for a long time. He mentioned that Botswana is doing exactly nothing about Covid-19, because they don't have to. All those in the at risk group are already dead in AIDS.

The Botswana government still has put a bunch of rules and regulations about Covid-19. But it's just for show. They are all aware that trying to limit Covid-19 in Botswana is a waste of time.

Sobering... and a bit depressing.

Huh? Since when did AIDS kill off the elderly?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I have a friend who is a consultant for statistics. He's been working with the Botswana government for a long time. He mentioned that Botswana is doing exactly nothing about Covid-19, because they don't have to. All those in the at risk group are already dead in AIDS.

The Botswana government still has put a bunch of rules and regulations about Covid-19. But it's just for show. They are all aware that trying to limit Covid-19 in Botswana is a waste of time.

Sobering... and a bit depressing.

Huh? Since when did AIDS kill off the elderly?

Elderly now, not elderly during AIDS outbreak. Granted, we'd be talking about those in their 40s and 50s at that time to make the math work.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I have a friend who is a consultant for statistics. He's been working with the Botswana government for a long time. He mentioned that Botswana is doing exactly nothing about Covid-19, because they don't have to. All those in the at risk group are already dead in AIDS.

The Botswana government still has put a bunch of rules and regulations about Covid-19. But it's just for show. They are all aware that trying to limit Covid-19 in Botswana is a waste of time.

Sobering... and a bit depressing.

Huh? Since when did AIDS kill off the elderly?

Elderly now, not elderly during AIDS outbreak. Granted, we'd be talking about those in their 40s and 50s at that time to make the math work.

Yes, exactly. AIDS causes a demographic shift. People in AIDS hit countries have loads of babies, strongly tilting the demographics towards young people.

 

[DrZoidberg]

What It's Really Like to Quarantine in San Francisco - YouTube by Rebecca Watson

I like that -- it hasn't been very horrible for her, certainly not what right-wingers seem to imagine it is.

The Medical Mask Becomes a Protest Symbol - The New York Times - "Commentators on the right have tried to paint the mask as a cowardly affectation. A flood of masked demonstrators tells a different story."

It is the pandemic’s defining symbol, a visual stand-in for the coronavirus itself. In America, the medical mask used to be confined to hospital dramas and operating rooms, but now the bare face is what registers as a choice. The mask is a public health device, but it has also revealed itself as a mask in the more traditional sense: a tool in a social ritual, a fetish object that signifies a person’s politics, gender expression and relationship to truth itself.

To its supporters, mask-wearing is a visual expression of civic duty, an affirmation of scientific authority and a show of respect. To its critics, it is a sign of weakness, emasculation and deceit. Most Americans accept the medical benefits of masks, but the ones who do not are, more often than not, Republican and male.

That's Trump's main demographic, it seems.

Among their ranks is R.R. Reno, the editor of the conservative religious journal First Things (“Masks = enforced cowardice,” he wrote in a Twitter rant about the mask “regime”), and Donald Trump. (“Somehow, I don’t see it for myself,” he said, even as he announced the C.D.C. guideline urging people to wear masks in public.) Last month, as a maskless Trump toured an Arizona mask factory, his supporters heckled the masked reporter BrieAnna J. Frank outside. “It’s submission, it’s muzzling yourself, it looks weak — especially for men,” one man told her.

To these men, masking signals not just cowardice but hypocrisy. Mask-wearers stand accused of cowering in fear, but also of cynically exaggerating the virus’s threat. The mask is cast as both a defensive shield and an accessory in a masquerade of political correctness. A recent email from the Trump campaign called Joe Biden a “basement dweller and virtue signaler,” and accused him of colluding with “the media mask-shamers” to deceive the public by only covering up when the cameras were rolling.

The implication is that people who choose to wear masks aren’t just protecting themselves — they’re attacking the president and his supporters. Recently a sign appeared on the door of a Texas restaurant banning masks: “Due to our concern for our customers, if they FEEL (not think), that they need to wear a mask, they should stay home until they FEEL that it’s safe to be in public without one,” it read.

FYI, the mask is not a political symbol in Europe. Here it's more of a symbol of care. People with at risks in their families tend to wear them. Most do not. Unless it's mandatory.

It's intersting how things become different in different countries.

 

[DrZoidberg]

The head of the Swedish CDC yesterday went out with admission that they handled the Corona response badly. And lists a bunch of reasons. But they're changing nothing. They're just doing what they have been doing all the time.

Denmark has now aligned itself with Sweden and has the same policies. If Sweden's Corona response sucked so much, why are they keeping it and why are others copying it?

It looks like just politics and a bunch of stuff said, for political reasons, that nobody believes in. I can't explain it any other way. Thoughts?

 

[DrZoidberg]

The Black Lives Matter rallies being held around the world... WTF?!? How the hell can people be so absurdly irresponsible? It's like people are only capable of worrying about one thing at a time.

The people who went to those rallies are not the good guys. Fuck all of them. Idiots. Why can't they just use a temporary Facebook profile picture to match the latest virtue signalling fad and leave it at that? Why let their idiotic narcisstic need to insert themeselves into every world event impact my health!?! Sometimes just having good intentions is not good enough.

 

[Jokodo]

The Black Lives Matter rallies being held around the world... WTF?!? How the hell can people be so absurdly irresponsible? It's like people are only capable of worrying about one thing at a time.

The people who went to those rallies are not the good guys. Fuck all of them. Idiots. Why can't they just use a temporary Facebook profile picture to match the latest virtue signalling fad and leave it at that? Why let their idiotic narcisstic need to insert themeselves into every world event impact my health!?! Sometimes just having good intentions is not good enough.

You're defending the "Swedish model" where restaurants remained open throughout (strangers sitting indoors in close quarters) etc but condemn people for gathering outdoors, with masks, keeping a distance?

 

[DrZoidberg]

The Black Lives Matter rallies being held around the world... WTF?!? How the hell can people be so absurdly irresponsible? It's like people are only capable of worrying about one thing at a time.

The people who went to those rallies are not the good guys. Fuck all of them. Idiots. Why can't they just use a temporary Facebook profile picture to match the latest virtue signalling fad and leave it at that? Why let their idiotic narcisstic need to insert themeselves into every world event impact my health!?! Sometimes just having good intentions is not good enough.

You're defending the "Swedish model" where restaurants remained open throughout (strangers sitting indoors in close quarters) etc but condemn people for gathering outdoors, with masks, keeping a distance?

That just tells me you don't understand the Swedish model. It also tells me that you don't understand how viruses spread in crowds of people. There's just no way of going to a rally and not making the problem worse. Everybody who went should be ashamed of themselves. My opinion. The same goes for anybody attending any rally of any kind in these Corona times.

I'm also surprised. I thought the conservatives were the morons in USA. I guess the liberals are just as retarded. Which is not good.

 

[southernhybrid]

I saw some people who attended the protests say that they were willing to put their lives on the line for this cause. They were very young. I guess, that while I certainly share your concerns related viral spread due to the crowds, when people have a cause, they usually don't worry about their safety. And, everything is open were I live so people are already being careless. I saw a parking lot for a tiny local Mexican restaurant that was jam packed. So much for keeping diners from getting to close. Some churches are open here too, so I'm expecting to see viral cases rise. Meanwhile, my husband and I only go to the grocery store. We go when it's not crowded, which makes it very easy to stay away from other shoppers.

I did find out that one of my neighbors, who is probably about 80, lost her husband to the virus in April. He lived in a local nursing home where most of the deaths in my town have occurred.

Americans aren't the only ones who have been protesting. There were crowded protests in several European countries as well. Just sayin'.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I saw some people who attended the protests say that they were willing to put their lives on the line for this cause.

But surely, what they meant to say was that they are willing to put other people's life on the line for their personal hobby cause and they think old people should hurry up and die already?

Americans aren't the only ones who have been protesting. There were crowded protests in several European countries as well. Just sayin'.

Yes, everywhere it's allowed. In central Stockholm there was a large BLM rally. Which is bizarre, since we have almost no black people in Sweden. And the ones we do have came direct from Africa, and not of slave descent. I'm not saying Sweden doesn't have problems with racism. But our racism is of a completely different nature, with different connotations and history attached. A BLM rally in USA will of course be about something entirely different than a BLM rally in Sweden.

So it wasn't so much a rally about solidarity for blacks, as it was just a run-of-the-mill rally against USA. Which is something else entirely. The Swedish left have a very unhealthy hang up about hating USA, and will take every given opportunity to show it. So my judgement of the Swedish BLM demonstraters is even harsher.

An annecdote. A friends daughter had a discussion in her class about racism and BLM. A girl from Somalia talked about identifying with being a slave decendent. Which is mindblowing, considering that Somalis were traditionally slavers suppling the middle-east with slaves. They are the descendents of slavers and slave traders. That would be like white southerners identifying with being slave descendents and trying to score victim points today. That's just disgusing. It was just an example of how meta and twisted BLM is in Sweden. Reality doesn't seem to matter here. It's just slogans and shit people say because it sounds good.

 

[Jokodo]

The Black Lives Matter rallies being held around the world... WTF?!? How the hell can people be so absurdly irresponsible? It's like people are only capable of worrying about one thing at a time.

The people who went to those rallies are not the good guys. Fuck all of them. Idiots. Why can't they just use a temporary Facebook profile picture to match the latest virtue signalling fad and leave it at that? Why let their idiotic narcisstic need to insert themeselves into every world event impact my health!?! Sometimes just having good intentions is not good enough.

You're defending the "Swedish model" where restaurants remained open throughout (strangers sitting indoors in close quarters) etc but condemn people for gathering outdoors, with masks, keeping a distance?

That just tells me you don't understand the Swedish model. It also tells me that you don't understand how viruses spread in crowds of people.

So it's not true that poorly ventilated indoor areas are a greater risk factor than outdoors? It's not true that long-term physical closeness with an infected individual (such as when they work next to you, or sit next to you in a restaurant) increases the probability of getting infected much above passing by them for an instant as you both move in vaguely the same direction? It's not true that much of the USA is already easing the lockdown, and many employers not only don't encourage wearing masks at work but actively disencourage it, even in large companies where many workers work next to each other in large facilities?

Gosh, you should have become an epidemiologist!

There's just no way of going to a rally and not making the problem worse. Everybody who went should be ashamed of themselves. My opinion. The same goes for anybody attending any rally of any kind in these Corona times.

I'm also surprised. I thought the conservatives were the morons in USA. I guess the liberals are just as retarded. Which is not good.

It could be that. Or it could be that you're being inconsistent: You approve of multiplying infection possibilities beyond the unavoidable minimum when it might (or might not) help the economy, but disapprove when it's done for a cause you feel doesn't affect you personally.

 

[Jokodo]

I saw some people who attended the protests say that they were willing to put their lives on the line for this cause.

But surely, what they meant to say was that they are willing to put other people's life on the line for their personal hobby cause and they think old people should hurry up and die already?

Americans aren't the only ones who have been protesting. There were crowded protests in several European countries as well. Just sayin'.

Yes, everywhere it's allowed. In central Stockholm there was a large BLM rally. Which is bizarre, since we have almost no black people in Sweden. And the ones we do have came direct from Africa, and not of slave descent. I'm not saying Sweden doesn't have problems with racism. But our racism is of a completely different nature, with different connotations and history attached. A BLM rally in USA will of course be about something entirely different than a BLM rally in Sweden.

So it wasn't so much a rally about solidarity for blacks, as it was just a run-of-the-mill rally against USA. Which is something else entirely. The Swedish left have a very unhealthy hang up about hating USA, and will take every given opportunity to show it. So my judgement of the Swedish BLM demonstraters is even harsher.

An annecdote. A friends daughter had a discussion in her class about racism and BLM. A girl from Somalia talked about identifying with being a slave decendent. Which is mindblowing, considering that Somalis were traditionally slavers suppling the middle-east with slaves.

You know for a fact that this girl is ethnic Somali, or are you jumping to conclusions? While Somalia is one of the most ethnically homogeneous countries in Africa, ethnic Somalis make up "only" about 85% of the population. Many of the remaining 15% are in fact descendants of slaves, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_Bantus

 

[ZiprHead]

The head of the Swedish CDC yesterday went out with admission that they handled the Corona response badly. And lists a bunch of reasons. But they're changing nothing. They're just doing what they have been doing all the time.

Denmark has now aligned itself with Sweden and has the same policies. If Sweden's Corona response sucked so much, why are they keeping it and why are others copying it?

It looks like just politics and a bunch of stuff said, for political reasons, that nobody believes in. I can't explain it any other way. Thoughts?

Yes, thoughts. If you had used some, you would have been able to dope out that conditions have changed in Denmark to allow reopening. But that wouldn't comport with your Sweden dick-sucking.

 

[DrZoidberg]

So it's not true that poorly ventilated indoor areas are a greater risk factor than outdoors?

I'm not sure how you know that all Swedish restaurants are poorly ventilated? I don't think they are... generally. Sweden has pretty rigorous housing standards and their rules for restaurants are absurdly strict. On top of that social distancing rules in restaurants are strictly enforced. Restaurants who fail to keep diners apart lose their right to serve people. Which they do because a failure to live up to any rules imposed by them come with severe punishments. Sweden has a long history of this.

I'm in Stockholm right now and yesterday I went to a Swedish bar and restaurant. It was outdoors. But the social distancing rules were enforced. I don't know if the bar I went to was special. But there you have it. An annecdote.

It's not true that much of the USA is already easing the lockdown

That's the point entirely. USA can ease the lockdowns because the limitation of the spread has been successful. If spread starts being exponential again, then of course lockdowns will come back. We're all in this together. Each one of us can, through our actions, make this easier. Avoiding crowds of people, is one such thing we can do. Or rather should do... unless we're complete fucking idiots.

There's just no way attending a rally.... today... is going to help the Corona situation.

Gosh, you should have become an epidemiologist!

These are the actual recommendations by the CDC and other national agencies around the globe with a similar function.

It could be that. Or it could be that you're being inconsistent: You approve of multiplying infection possibilities beyond the unavoidable minimum when it might (or might not) help the economy, but disapprove when it's done for a cause you feel doesn't affect you personally.

Yes. I think saving a tanking economy is more important than virtue signalling against racism with some intangible potential pay off. No matter how much I'm against racism... I'd still have this position. What's wrong with just making a post against systematic racism endemic in the system on Facebook? And stay home!

 

[DrZoidberg]

The head of the Swedish CDC yesterday went out with admission that they handled the Corona response badly. And lists a bunch of reasons. But they're changing nothing. They're just doing what they have been doing all the time.

Denmark has now aligned itself with Sweden and has the same policies. If Sweden's Corona response sucked so much, why are they keeping it and why are others copying it?

It looks like just politics and a bunch of stuff said, for political reasons, that nobody believes in. I can't explain it any other way. Thoughts?

Yes, thoughts. If you had used some, you would have been able to dope out that conditions have changed in Denmark to allow reopening. But that wouldn't comport with your Sweden dick-sucking.

Conditions haven't changed in Denmark. What happened was that Denmark managed to kill the spread almost entirely. It quickly came down to a crawl. It's zero to max four a day new confirmed dead per day. Covid-19 never really happened in Denmark. At a huge cost. The Danish governement clearly doesn't think it was worth it. That's all that has changed. The number of dead will go up now.