The Wall

[PyramidHead]

A year, four years, 8, doesn't matter.

He can say he committed us to the Wall, and construction has technically started, promise kept. And whoever halts construction later down the line, not Trump's fault. And as a gift to future racists, they can run on a 'liberals want to take away your guns AND your Wall' ticket....

When someone breaks into your house, you’re free to complain unless of course who so happens to break in is of a different race. In that case, your disdain for those that would break in is no longer a matter of principle but rather a matter of race. Odd.

I'd argue that no matter who broke into your house, be they white, black, brindle or yellow or any colour in between, deserves everything done to them!

Something is wrong with you if you think of the country as a big house that you partly own

 

[Angry Floof]

I'd argue that no matter who broke into your house, be they white, black, brindle or yellow or any colour in between, deserves everything done to them!

That is irrational. (1) Consequences need to be commensurate in some way with offense such that they are a deterrent but not over the top and (2) a response to a break-in needs to consider risk and cost-benefit--what risk does the perpetrator pose, what are the costs and benefits of various actions against them. So, if someone breaks in because they are starving and need bread which they try to steal, they do not deserve to be raped because that is not commensurate with what they did, nor are they likely a physical risk to your family, nor would raping them be beneficial to society. Meanwhile, if a dangerous person with a weapon is on crack is rummaging through your house, it may be smartest to shoot them, still not rape them though, as that creates more risk with little benefit to the family or society.

Right wing mentality means fear does the thinking, not rationality.

 

[crazyfingers]

El Paso county officials rip trump a new one with scathing resolution over his lies. Yes they call them lies.I see no mincing of words.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...s-lies-about-border-walls-and-crime#read-more

 

[JohnG]

The impasse as far as I can see it is this: Trump marketed the Wall initially with a racist tag-line - he referred to Mexicans as rapists, murderers, criminals, he called them animals at one point - and those that oppose racism (conservatives would call libtards) are in no way going to get behind that. The wall was toast from the get go.

Conservatives don't understand that a wall constructed in the spirit of "Mexican immigrants as rapists, murderers criminals, animals" is not going to fly with non-conservatives.

If he had said very little, maybe mentioned that he is going to build a structure to dissuade people against dangerous desert treks and help direct them to safe points of crossing - he may have been able to slip it by.

But what good would that have been as a fear tactic? Obviously the conservatives didn't go that route - even though it may have actually had a chance to get a wall built.

Nope. It had to be fear tactics.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The impasse as far as I can see it is this: Trump marketed the Wall initially with a racist tag-line - he referred to Mexicans as rapists, murderers, criminals, he called them animals at one point - and those that oppose racism (conservatives would call libtards) are in no way going to get behind that. The wall was toast from the get go.

Conservatives don't understand that a wall constructed in the spirit of "Mexican immigrants as rapists, murderers criminals, animals" is not going to fly with non-conservatives.

If he had said very little, maybe mentioned that he is going to build a structure to dissuade people against dangerous desert treks and help direct them to safe points of crossing - he may have been able to slip it by.

But what good would that have been as a fear tactic? Obviously the conservatives didn't go that route - even though it may have actually had a chance to get a wall built.

Nope. It had to be fear tactics.

I like the fact that border town folk are speaking up about how safe their communities are. It's not so amazing the lies coming from trump. Even El Paso is safer than it's ever been, and has nothing to do with any barriers.

Conservatives love fear and having enemies. If you want their support you've got to use those two ingredients everywhere and all the time.

 

[Worldtraveller]

The impasse as far as I can see it is this: Trump marketed the Wall initially with a racist tag-line - he referred to Mexicans as rapists, murderers, criminals, he called them animals at one point - and those that oppose racism (conservatives would call libtards) are in no way going to get behind that. The wall was toast from the get go.

Conservatives don't understand that a wall constructed in the spirit of "Mexican immigrants as rapists, murderers criminals, animals" is not going to fly with non-conservatives.

If he had said very little, maybe mentioned that he is going to build a structure to dissuade people against dangerous desert treks and help direct them to safe points of crossing - he may have been able to slip it by.

But what good would that have been as a fear tactic? Obviously the conservatives didn't go that route - even though it may have actually had a chance to get a wall built.

Nope. It had to be fear tactics.

I like the fact that border town folk are speaking up about how safe their communities are. It's not so amazing the lies coming from trump. Even El Paso is safer than it's ever been, and has nothing to do with any barriers.

Conservatives love fear and having enemies. If you want their support you've got to use those two ingredients everywhere and all the time.

Agreed. I know many people who live within ~20 minutes of the border, and they loathe ICE and BP. No wonder too, when you have to drive through a BP checkpoint just to go to the grocery store, you're going to start feeling like you're in a police state. A lot of them put signs in the desert and leave water out, even though the BP is trying to persecute people for doing that.

 

[Gun Nut]

The impasse as far as I can see it is this: Trump marketed the Wall initially with a racist tag-line - he referred to Mexicans as rapists, murderers, criminals, he called them animals at one point - and those that oppose racism (conservatives would call libtards) are in no way going to get behind that. The wall was toast from the get go.

Conservatives don't understand that a wall constructed in the spirit of "Mexican immigrants as rapists, murderers criminals, animals" is not going to fly with non-conservatives.

If he had said very little, maybe mentioned that he is going to build a structure to dissuade people against dangerous desert treks and help direct them to safe points of crossing - he may have been able to slip it by.

But what good would that have been as a fear tactic? Obviously the conservatives didn't go that route - even though it may have actually had a chance to get a wall built.

Nope. It had to be fear tactics.

I like the fact that border town folk are speaking up about how safe their communities are. It's not so amazing the lies coming from trump. Even El Paso is safer than it's ever been, and has nothing to do with any barriers.

Conservatives love fear and having enemies. If you want their support you've got to use those two ingredients everywhere and all the time.

Agreed. I know many people who live within ~20 minutes of the border, and they loathe ICE and BP. No wonder too, when you have to drive through a BP checkpoint just to go to the grocery store, you're going to start feeling like you're in a police state. A lot of them put signs in the desert and leave water out, even though the BP is trying to persecute people for doing that.

Search youtube for "border patrol checkpoint refuse"

Thousands of dash-cam videos of American Citizens fed up with being asked for "their papers".. and much instruction on how to be a complete pain in their ass. Quotes such as, "we are 50 miles from the border and I am just trying to travel freely"... and "I don't answer questions, am I free to go"... "Are you detaining me and if so, for suspicion of what crime?"

 

[angelo]

Any nation that doesn't control it's borders is no longer a nation but is what many on the left aspire to: a globalist fantasy utopia that's not possible for many reasons. One and the main one is independence!

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Any nation that doesn't control it's borders is no longer a nation but is what many on the left aspire to: a globalist fantasy utopia that's not possible for many reasons. One and the main one is independence!

A wall makes us an independent nation. I don't recall that from my civics classes.

 

[Elixir]

Any nation that doesn't control it's borders is no longer a nation but is what many on the left aspire to: a globalist fantasy utopia that's not possible for many reasons. One and the main one is independence!

A wall makes us an independent nation. I don't recall that from my civics classes.

Obviously you didn't have Donsky Trumpovich as your professor.

 

[funinspace]

I kind of got a kick out of FFvC trying to shift the 'Build the Wall' meme to 'Finish the Wall'. Though I won't be surprised if the Trumpeteers swallow the load. We'll probably hear a lot along this line as the 2020 race starts revving...

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Any nation that doesn't control it's borders is no longer a nation but is what many on the left aspire to: a globalist fantasy utopia that's not possible for many reasons. One and the main one is independence!

The funny argument here is this idealization of First World nations of the right to outsource the shit to other countries. Need drugs? Outsource the production and related crime to Central America. Want cheap production of goods? Outsource the pollution to poor nations elsewhere. Don't want the poor and impoverished wandering up to your nation because of poor economics in their homeland due to your own nation's meddling and support for dictators? Build a wall!

It is our right to Independence!

 

[KeepTalking]

Any nation that doesn't control it's borders is no longer a nation but is what many on the left aspire to: a globalist fantasy utopia that's not possible for many reasons. One and the main one is independence!

Can you remind me again how many nations have walls separating themselves from their neighbors? That is a very tiny number in you pool of nations if walls are required to be considered one.

 

[Worldtraveller]

Any nation that doesn't control it's borders is no longer a nation but is what many on the left aspire to: a globalist fantasy utopia that's not possible for many reasons. One and the main one is independence!

A wall makes us an independent nation. I don't recall that from my civics classes.

No kidding.

Alright, angelo, I have a challenge for you. Find all the countries in the world with a significant amount of fencing between their country and their nieghbors.

...and...go!

(I actually know of at least one, but I don't think it's an example he'd like to use. )

 

[Tom Sawyer]

IIRC, since China finished building the Great Wall, not a single Mexican has walked across the border with a backpack full of drugs.

I look forward to all the opponents of the Trump Wall now retracting their positions on the matter.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

IIRC, since China finished building the Great Wall, not a single Mexican has walked across the border with a backpack full of drugs.

That reminded me of when George Gobles the comedian appeared on the Johnny Carson show. In talking about his service during WW2 he bragged that while he was training fighter pilots in Oklahoma not a single Japanese plane ever got east of Tulsa. It was hilarious.

 

[Gun Nut]

Any nation that doesn't control it's borders is no longer a nation but is what many on the left aspire to: a globalist fantasy utopia that's not possible for many reasons. One and the main one is independence!

What nation in existence today has no control at all over its borders?
What nation in existence today has complete and total control over its borders?

We should use those examples to inform our investment in border security. If neither case exists, then what do you suggest the country do? in absence of an extreme emergency polar situation, are you at a complete loss as to how to make informed decisions?

 

[Elixir]

IIRC, since China finished building the Great Wall, not a single Mexican has walked across the border with a backpack full of drugs.

Yabut that was before they invented the Mighty Caravan!

 

[JohnG]

Any nation that doesn't control it's borders is no longer a nation but is what many on the left aspire to: a globalist fantasy utopia that's not possible for many reasons. One and the main one is independence!

What nation in existence today has no control at all over its borders?
What nation in existence today has complete and total control over its borders?

We should use those examples to inform our investment in border security. If neither case exists, then what do you suggest the country do? in absence of an extreme emergency polar situation, are you at a complete loss as to how to make informed decisions?

The wall is not a good solution. Also, as I said - it's as if you had the worst deal maker in history on the case. Calling Mexicans rapists, murderers, criminals, animals was a sure way to lose the majority of the American people on the project. Most will object merely out of principle.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Any nation that doesn't control it's borders is no longer a nation but is what many on the left aspire to: a globalist fantasy utopia that's not possible for many reasons. One and the main one is independence!

What nation in existence today has no control at all over its borders?
What nation in existence today has complete and total control over its borders?

We should use those examples to inform our investment in border security. If neither case exists, then what do you suggest the country do? in absence of an extreme emergency polar situation, are you at a complete loss as to how to make informed decisions?

The wall is not a good solution. Also, as I said - it's as if you had the worst deal maker in history on the case. Calling Mexicans rapists, murderers, criminals, animals was a sure way to lose the majority of the American people on the project. Most will object merely out of principle.

Most certainly will. But a large minority who support trumpo and his hate will resent immigrants because immigrants are only here to steal their welfare checks.