The women's march shows it's true colors

[Jolly_Penguin]

Yes. I am aware. It is sad.

But we don't repress women in any way here do we.

I don't. Do you? We should call it out when it actually happens. I know someone in the city next to mine who was beaten for leaving the house and dating somebody not of her faith for example. He was caught and prosecuted.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Their advice is basic reasoning that most people intuitively understand and easily incorporate into their everyday interactions.

I'll pass that along to Muslims who object to being demonized. "If you're not a Muslim guilty of terrorism, then my rhetoric about Muslims being terrorists doesn't apply to you".

I think you’re aiming that last ‘jab’ in the wrong direction.

100% agree based on posts in this thread.

 

[ZiprHead]

Not at all: there has been a very concerted effort to demonize feminism and to convince people that feminism is not what feminism actually is. Look how well it’s worked on Jolly—and how hard he works to try to impose some other meaning on feminism.

It isn't I who demonized feminism. It is the feminists who aren't egalitarian who did that. Women around the world now shun the label because they don't want to be associated with such man hating. Its right in that (pro-feminist) article I cited. And its the vast majority of women, and of men. The word is (re)defined, and it isn't I that made that happen.

You own post showed that those who call themselves feminists increased, not decreased.

A 2018 YouGov poll found that 34% of women in the UK said "yes" when asked whether they were a feminist , up from 27% in 2013 .

Where do you get the idea that what you said above is anything but a fantasy developed in your own mind?

 

[Toni]

Well I never said you demonized feminism but then there you go: demonizing feminists, trying to tell feminists which are good and which are bad.

I am quite happy to distinguish between the good and the bad; those who spread hate and those who push for equality. I make no apology for that.

I’m certain you are happy to pass judgment. Thing is, your opinion plus $2 still falls short of buying an Espresso Macchiato

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Where do you get the idea that what you said above is anything but a fantasy developed in your own mind?

From the fact that the vast majority of women don't call themselves feminists, and when asked why answered that they don't want to be seen as hating men.

 

[ZiprHead]

Where do you get the idea that what you said above is anything but a fantasy developed in your own mind?

From the fact that the vast majority of women don't call themselves feminists, and when asked why answered that they don't want to be seen as hating men.

Yet as your cite pointed out, the number that do call themselves feminists rose. Convenient how you clipped that out of my post.

 

[laughing dog]

Their advice is basic reasoning that most people intuitively understand and easily incorporate into their everyday interactions.

I'll pass that along to Muslims who object to being demonized. "If you're not a Muslim guilty of terrorism, then my rhetoric about Muslims being terrorists doesn't apply to you".

Your ability to miss the point helps explain the ridiculousness of your responses.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Where do you get the idea that what you said above is anything but a fantasy developed in your own mind?

From the fact that the vast majority of women don't call themselves feminists, and when asked why answered that they don't want to be seen as hating men.

Yet as your cite pointed out, the number that do call themselves feminists rose. Convenient how you clipped that out of my post.

And? There has been a rise in man hating diatribes too. Coincidence?

 

[laughing dog]

Yet as your cite pointed out, the number that do call themselves feminists rose. Convenient how you clipped that out of my post.

And? There has been a rise in man hating diatribes too. Coincidence?

And a rise in women bashing whinges ad well. Coincidence?

 

[ZiprHead]

Yet as your cite pointed out, the number that do call themselves feminists rose. Convenient how you clipped that out of my post.

And? There has been a rise in man hating diatribes too. Coincidence?

Do you have stats on that?

Feminists have been described as manhaters from the first use of the word feminist.

 

[Arctish]

Where do you get the idea that what you said above is anything but a fantasy developed in your own mind?

From the fact that the vast majority of women don't call themselves feminists, and when asked why answered that they don't want to be seen as hating men.

This right here is the crux of the matter. Who are these feminists who hate men? Where are they? How many are there?

I've been a feminist since I first heard about the Feminist Movement back in the 1970s. And I've been hearing tales about man-hating feminists at least as long. Not only have I yet to meet one, I've yet to see genuine evidence they exist other than careful quote mining and blatant misrepresentation of feminist writings by people who openly declare their refusal to actually read what feminists write. Sure, there's a handful of extremists in the movement. Every movement has those. But the stories told about these alleged man-haters assert they're the norm, not the outliers. So why are they so hard to find?

I think the term 'feminist' has been hijacked much like how the term 'social justice warrior' has been turned into a pejorative, so that nowadays the people who fight for those causes get really pissed if you call them feminists and SJWs. It's not that feminism or fighting for social justice has changed, it's that the terms that identify those things have been sullied.

No one wants to be tarred with a term that's a proven troll-magnet.

 

[Metaphor]

Their advice is basic reasoning that most people intuitively understand and easily incorporate into their everyday interactions.

I'll pass that along to Muslims who object to being demonized. "If you're not a Muslim guilty of terrorism, then my rhetoric about Muslims being terrorists doesn't apply to you".

Your ability to miss the point helps explain the ridiculousness of your responses.

What point did you imagine you were making?

 

[Metaphor]

Where do you get the idea that what you said above is anything but a fantasy developed in your own mind?

From the fact that the vast majority of women don't call themselves feminists, and when asked why answered that they don't want to be seen as hating men.

This right here is the crux of the matter. Who are these feminists who hate men? Where are they? How many are there?

I've been a feminist since I first heard about the Feminist Movement back in the 1970s. And I've been hearing tales about man-hating feminists at least as long. Not only have I yet to meet one, I've yet to see genuine evidence they exist other than careful quote mining and blatant misrepresentation of feminist writings by people who openly declare their refusal to actually read what feminists write. Sure, there's a handful of extremists in the movement. Every movement has those. But the stories told about these alleged man-haters assert they're the norm, not the outliers. So why are they so hard to find?

I think the term 'feminist' has been hijacked much like how the term 'social justice warrior' has been turned into a pejorative, so that nowadays the people who fight for those causes get really pissed if you call them feminists and SJWs. It's not that feminism or fighting for social justice has changed, it's that the terms that identify those things have been sullied.

No one wants to be tarred with a term that's a proven troll-magnet.

SJW started as a pejorative. Individuals with the particular set of ideologies of the kind typically associated with the term SJW didn't call themselves SJWs.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

As an example of people who call themselves "women," look at the op. "Women's March." Nowhere does it say only feminists can march. Somehow someone changed the game though to use a sullied word. Likewise, none of the principles of the Women's March involved man-hating or even criticism of manspreading. This has been repeated over and over. Yet, somehow certain people go on and on about The Evil Feminists who are victimizing men by using the politically incorrect term manspreading. No wonder some women want to run away from the label.

 

[Arctish]

SJW started as a pejorative. Individuals with the particular set of ideologies of the kind typically associated with the term SJW didn't call themselves SJWs.

The term social justice warrior started out as high praise. It was the term used to describe people like Martin Luther King, Jr. and Eleanor Roosevelt. Those to whom it was applied didn't call themselves that; it was a title bestowed by others in an admiring fashion.

Gamergate trolls started using the abbreviation SJW as a way to belittle and mock those who raised social justice concerns during that particular battle in the culture wars, and the GG fans started emulating the Kewl Kidz across social media. That's how the term came to be widely used and seen as pejorative.

I think the same process has been at work wrt the term Feminism. It took a bit longer, but otherwise it's pretty much the same thing: use the term like it's an insult, make slanderous allegations about 'those people' when challenged, and repeat until it sticks.

 

[Metaphor]

The term social justice warrior started out as high praise. It was the term used to describe people like Martin Luther King, Jr. and Eleanor Roosevelt. Those to whom it was applied didn't call themselves that; it was a title bestowed by others in an admiring fashion.

Do you have any evidence that these people were called social justice warriors by their contemporaries?

 

[Arctish]

The term social justice warrior started out as high praise. It was the term used to describe people like Martin Luther King, Jr. and Eleanor Roosevelt. Those to whom it was applied didn't call themselves that; it was a title bestowed by others in an admiring fashion.

Do you have any evidence that these people were called social justice warriors by their contemporaries?

Sure.

Back in 2016 I started a thread titled Define SJW please. In it I quoted this article: Why ‘social justice warrior,’ a Gamergate insult, is now a dictionary entry. The article contains this background information:

More than 20 years ago, the term was generally used as a neutral or even complimentary describer. Here’s a clip from a 1991 write-up of a Montreal jazz festival, from the Montreal Gazette:

[Quebec guitarist Rene] Lussier will present the world premiere of his ambitious Quebecois mood piece Le Tresor de la Langue, which juxtaposes the spoken word — including sound bites from Charles de Gaulle and Quebec nationalist and social-justice warrior Michel Chartrand — with new- music noodlings.

“All of the examples I’ve seen until quite recently are lionizing the person,” Katherine Martin, the head of U.S. dictionaries at the Oxford University Press, said in an interview last month. Because “Social Justice Warrior” is currently only in Oxford Dictionaries — and not in the Oxford English Dictionary itself — lexicographers there haven’t done a full search for its earliest citation. But a cursory search for the phrase turns up several positive uses, spanning from the early ’90s through the early ’00s.

Baptist minister, the Rev. James Obey Sr.’s, 1992 obituary in the Houston Chronicle was titled, “Social justice warrior dies.” In 2007, “Social Justice Warrior” Monsignor David Cappo was honored with an award. And lawyer-turned filmmaker Ana Kokkinos told a newspaper reporter in 2009 that “what attracted me to law at that age was the idea of being a social justice warrior.”

Sometimes the person being lauded was referred to as a Champion of Social Justice or even a Crusader for Social Justice, but the meaning was the same. It was a compliment until GamerGaters turned it into snark.

 

[Metaphor]

Sure.

Back in 2016 I started a thread titled Define SJW please. In it I quoted this article: Why ‘social justice warrior,’ a Gamergate insult, is now a dictionary entry. The article contains this background information:

More than 20 years ago, the term was generally used as a neutral or even complimentary describer. Here’s a clip from a 1991 write-up of a Montreal jazz festival, from the Montreal Gazette:

[Quebec guitarist Rene] Lussier will present the world premiere of his ambitious Quebecois mood piece Le Tresor de la Langue, which juxtaposes the spoken word — including sound bites from Charles de Gaulle and Quebec nationalist and social-justice warrior Michel Chartrand — with new- music noodlings.

“All of the examples I’ve seen until quite recently are lionizing the person,” Katherine Martin, the head of U.S. dictionaries at the Oxford University Press, said in an interview last month. Because “Social Justice Warrior” is currently only in Oxford Dictionaries — and not in the Oxford English Dictionary itself — lexicographers there haven’t done a full search for its earliest citation. But a cursory search for the phrase turns up several positive uses, spanning from the early ’90s through the early ’00s.

Baptist minister, the Rev. James Obey Sr.’s, 1992 obituary in the Houston Chronicle was titled, “Social justice warrior dies.” In 2007, “Social Justice Warrior” Monsignor David Cappo was honored with an award. And lawyer-turned filmmaker Ana Kokkinos told a newspaper reporter in 2009 that “what attracted me to law at that age was the idea of being a social justice warrior.”

Sometimes the person being lauded was referred to as a Champion of Social Justice or even a Crusader for Social Justice, but the meaning was the same. It was a compliment until GamerGaters turned it into snark.

None of these show that Roosevelt or MLK were described as social justice warriors by their contemporaries. The first actual use of the term, from your own links, appears to be 1992.

 

[Arctish]

Ah, pedantry.

I get it.

*ahem*

I said It was a term used to describe people like Martin Luther King, Jr. and Eleanor Roosevelt, not that it was used to describe them specifically.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Where do you get the idea that what you said above is anything but a fantasy developed in your own mind?

From the fact that the vast majority of women don't call themselves feminists, and when asked why answered that they don't want to be seen as hating men.

This right here is the crux of the matter. Who are these feminists who hate men? Where are they? How many are there?

I've been a feminist since I first heard about the Feminist Movement back in the 1970s. And I've been hearing tales about man-hating feminists at least as long. Not only have I yet to meet one, I've yet to see genuine evidence they exist other than careful quote mining and blatant misrepresentation of feminist writings by people who openly declare their refusal to actually read what feminists write. Sure, there's a handful of extremists in the movement. Every movement has those. But the stories told about these alleged man-haters assert they're the norm, not the outliers. So why are they so hard to find?

I think the term 'feminist' has been hijacked much like how the term 'social justice warrior' has been turned into a pejorative, so that nowadays the people who fight for those causes get really pissed if you call them feminists and SJWs. It's not that feminism or fighting for social justice has changed, it's that the terms that identify those things have been sullied.

No one wants to be tarred with a term that's a proven troll-magnet.

There have always been a few feminist crazies out there. They are a very small minority, and any sizable movement will attract a few crackpots. It has long been a far right extremist tactic to hold up these few crackpots as being typical feminists who represent what feminism is about. Lush Rimjob has long been playing this game and it has become a common right wing trope that has been mainstreamed into the public consciousness by repeating this lie ad nauseum.

It looks like today's women voters have had their fill of Trump and the GOP. And they will be flooding to the polls November 2020 to vote these fools out of office. In the end, the real feminists, the normal progressive feminist women voters are going to have their revenge.

Pew tells us that in 2018, women voters supported Democrats 59% to 39% for the GOP. In 2020, they are going to be back in the voting booth. The decades long attacks on women's issue by the GOP, including attacks on "feminists" is about to earn Trump a well deserved defeat.

"They have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind"
Hosea 8:7