The women's march shows it's true colors

[ZiprHead]

Feminism is defined as the advocacy of equal rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes. So, I beg to differ. Attacking feminism is attacking women.

That would be egalitarianism and one ever shrinking group of self identifying feminists. Those aren't the feminists I was speaking of and long ago became a minority of those who call themselves feminists.

Really? You took a poll?

 

[ruby sparks]

And who was it who said, on page 1, "Yet another anti-feminist whinefest from the usual hobbyhorsemen of the ohcrapolypse. Yawn."

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Was that “good” original intent having Western women put on burkas and pretend to be oppressed while totally ignoring women in Muslim countries who are jailed for making a different choice?

Emphasis added.

...and here Trausti, like Metaphor, generalizes entire groups of women.

Not to mention talking bollocks. Since when did western feminists totally ignore women in other countries.

And yet a certain poster was in like flynn with 'good point trausti old comrade in arms' (just before brining up manspreading).

Exactly! Trausti made up some weird gibberish about women and JP followed suit.

 

[ruby sparks]

Feminism is defined as the advocacy of equal rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes. So, I beg to differ. Attacking feminism is attacking women.

That would be egalitarianism and one ever shrinking group of self identifying feminists. Those aren't the feminists I was speaking of and long ago became a minority of those who call themselves feminists.

Really? You took a poll?

He must have, because Jolly hates merely treating people in terms of generalised groups (it's identity politics you see) plus he's too much of a free speech, individual freedoms liberal to ever tell anyone they're not what they themselves say they are.

 

[Metaphor]

Was that “good” original intent having Western women put on burkas and pretend to be oppressed while totally ignoring women in Muslim countries who are jailed for making a different choice?

Emphasis added.

...and here Trausti, like Metaphor, generalizes entire groups of women.

What groups of women have I generalised?

 

[ruby sparks]

What groups of women have I generalised?

You have certainly generalised Feminists. And yes I know you don't have to be a woman to be a feminist.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Feminism is defined as the advocacy of equal rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes. So, I beg to differ. Attacking feminism is attacking women.

That would be egalitarianism and one ever shrinking group of self identifying feminists. Those aren't the feminists I was speaking of and long ago became a minority of those who call themselves feminists.

It would be great if more feminists would advocate for equal treatment, even within what they see as women's issues. I am fully on board with those who do. Sadly, that's not the ones I usually hear are the ones spreading hatred of men. But "why can't we hate men" right?

*citation required or it’s bullshit.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47006912

Fewer than one in five young women would call themselves a feminist, polling in the UK and US suggests .

That might come as a surprise as feminism - the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of equality of the sexes - has been in the spotlight lately

....

A 2018 YouGov poll found that 34% of women in the UK said "yes" when asked whether they were a feminist , up from 27% in 2013 .

It's a similar picture in Europe, with fewer than half of men and women polled in five countries agreeing they were a feminist. This ranged from 8% of respondents in Germany, to 40% in Sweden.

However, people do not appear to reject the term feminism because they are against gender equality or believe it has been achieved.

The same study found that eight out of 10 people said men and women should be treated equally in every way , with many agreeing sexism is still an issue.

....

Research into the views of US millennials found 12% of Hispanic women, 21% of African American women, 23% of Asian women and 26% of white women identify as a feminist.

....

Nevertheless, whichever label women choose to adopt, the indication that the vast majority of people now support equality - and acknowledge it has not yet been achieved - is heartening.

Add to this the self identified feminists who spread hatred of men and demand special treatment. Draw your own conclusion.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

What's so wrong with the word egalitarian?

Nothing. But now we have again got to the part where you tell certain feminists that they're not really feminists. That they're egalitarians.

You mean the ones posting here? Oh no. Not at all. They appear to be Feminists to me, and not egalitarian at all. As I wrote above, it would be great if the progressive egalitarian feminists took back the movement. I won't hold my breath.

 

[ruby sparks]

What's so wrong with the word egalitarian?

Nothing. But now we have again got to the part where you tell certain feminists that they're not really feminists. That they're egalitarians.

You mean the ones posting here? Oh no. Not at all. They appear to be Feminists to me, and not egalitarian at all.

No, I don't mean the ones posting here. What on earth would make you think that I would limit my responses on gender issues to that? You weren't.

Plus, I don't agree with you. And, I think it's a false dichotomy.

 

[ruby sparks]

*citation required or it’s bullshit.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47006912

Fewer than one in five young women would call themselves a feminist, polling in the UK and US suggests .

That might come as a surprise as feminism - the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of equality of the sexes - has been in the spotlight lately

....

A 2018 YouGov poll found that 34% of women in the UK said "yes" when asked whether they were a feminist , up from 27% in 2013 .

It's a similar picture in Europe, with fewer than half of men and women polled in five countries agreeing they were a feminist. This ranged from 8% of respondents in Germany, to 40% in Sweden.

However, people do not appear to reject the term feminism because they are against gender equality or believe it has been achieved.

The same study found that eight out of 10 people said men and women should be treated equally in every way , with many agreeing sexism is still an issue.

....

Research into the views of US millennials found 12% of Hispanic women, 21% of African American women, 23% of Asian women and 26% of white women identify as a feminist.

....

Nevertheless, whichever label women choose to adopt, the indication that the vast majority of people now support equality - and acknowledge it has not yet been achieved - is heartening.

Add to this the self identified feminists who spread hatred of men and demand special treatment. Draw your own conclusion.

I conclude that you are tarring all feminists with the same brush, mr 'oh but you can't do that'.

And by the way your numbers only relate to numbers of self-identifying feminists, so it's not a citation for your claim.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Plus, I don't agree with you. And, I think it's a false dichotomy.

I think you are misrepresenting me, to myself, as you often do. Misrepresenting me others may work, but I know my own mind so it won't work on me. I do sense I could have a constructive conversation with you if you didn't insist on playing such games. Maybe one day. Maybe one day.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I conclude that you are tarring all feminists with the same brush

I'm not surprised that you do, despite me explicitly writing about a minority of self defined feminists who are egalitarian.

And by the way your numbers only relate to numbers of self-identifying feminists, so it's not a citation for your claim.

My claim was about self identifying feminists, which you would know if you read what I wrote instead of insisting on seeing something else.

 

[ruby sparks]

Plus, I don't agree with you. And, I think it's a false dichotomy.

I think you are misrepresenting me, to myself, as you often do. Misrepresenting me others may work, but I know my own mind so it won't work on me. I do sense I could have a constructive conversation with you if you didn't insist on playing such games. Maybe one day. Maybe one day.

How on earth is me saying I don't agree with you and that I think it's a false dichotomy, misrepresenting you? Seriously.

 

[ruby sparks]

My claim was about self identifying feminists, which you would know if you read what I wrote instead of insisting on seeing something else.

Yes you said something about a minority of self identifying feminists being egalitarian (and later, progressive). Where is that minority shown in your data? In other words, how do you know it's a minority? A minority that pass your definitional tests for 'progressive' and 'egalitarian' and 'feminist', not their own, of course. You wouldn't want to be seen to be telling groups of people what they should call themselves. Until it suits you.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

How on earth is me saying I don't agree with you and that I think it's a false dichotomy, misrepresenting you? Seriously.

What dichotomy do you speak of? And in your very next post you stated what you concluded, not about the survey I cited or anything I wrote but about me personally and what you wrongly think I think. It's nice to have fans, but I think you should get over me.

 

[ruby sparks]

What dichotomy do you speak of?

That someone is either a Feminist or an egalitarian, as in A not B.

 

[Toni]

It’s interesting —or pathetic to watch a bunch of men try to define feminism, particularly by attacking it and attempting to redefine feminism by their own misconceptions and preferences. Yep, feminists are all about letting men define them—or anything.

But point taken. Many young women don’t call themselves feminists but the overwhelming majority are feminists: they believe in equal rights for all genders.

 

[ruby sparks]

Many young women don’t call themselves feminists but the overwhelming majority are feminists...

That's just as bad. You're telling women who say they aren't feminists that they really are. Which is something that annoys quite a few women who don't agree that they are feminists and don't enjoy being told by feminists that they are.

 

[ruby sparks]

There is feminism, and there is feminism and then there is feminism. It always irritates me to see some moron hold up some radical kook type feminist as a typical feminist to smear rational and reasonable feminists as radical loonies.

Well said.

 

[Metaphor]

It’s interesting —or pathetic to watch a bunch of men try to define feminism, particularly by attacking it and attempting to redefine feminism by their own misconceptions and preferences. Yep, feminists are all about letting men define them—or anything.

But point taken. Many young women don’t call themselves feminists but the overwhelming majority are feminists: they believe in equal rights for all genders.

You just say feminism was about equality between the genders? If so, why would it be a problem for "men" to define and discuss it? Are men not a gender?

Your defences are what I'd write as a satire of feminist thought process. But of course there's no satire I could write that is distinguishable from feminist reality.