This week in the strange death of America: Professor removed for using Mandarin word that sounds like a slur in English

[Metaphor]

If you don't think it was intended as a joke, I'm confused as to what you think it was.

It was an example of the role filler words play in communication. It says so in the second paragraph.

During a Zoom class on August 20, Greg Patton, a 53-year-old professor, told students that in business settings they should avoid filler words such as um or er. Then he gave another example of a filler word that—I learned—he added to his lecture perhaps five years ago to be more inclusive of international students. “Like in China, the common word is that—that, that, that, that,” he explained. “So in China it might be nèi ge—nèi ge, nèi ge, nèi ge. So there’s different words that you’ll hear in different countries.”

 

[ZiprHead]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...gainst-words-sound-like-are-not-slurs/616404/

This is a long read. I have selectively quoted it below.

The article points to similar incidents, as late as 1999, where people had taken offence to words that were not slurs but evoked them. But back then, the media ridiculed the offence taking.

The brazen entitlement, hysteria, and calculated malice by the students putting in the complaint, evident from the language and misrepresentations in their letter, is also disheartening to read.

If your only response is to tell me people are dying of COVID-19 while I fret over this, I respectfully request you do not point that out to me.

When the news began circulating on social media, many couldn’t believe it was true––that the Marshall School of Business at the University of Southern California would remove a longtime professor from a class because a Mandarin word he used correctly in a lesson sounded sort of like a racial slur. One skeptic warned that the “ridiculous sounding story” seemed like a “fabricated Reddit meme.” Another was suspicious that it so neatly fit a narrative of “wacky campus leftists repressing free speech.”


Then angry faculty and alumni began confirming the story: During a Zoom class on August 20, Greg Patton, a 53-year-old professor, told students that in business settings they should avoid filler words such as um or er. Then he gave another example of a filler word that—I learned—he added to his lecture perhaps five years ago to be more inclusive of international students. “Like in China, the common word is that—that, that, that, that,” he explained. “So in China it might be nèi ge—nèi ge, nèi ge, nèi ge. So there’s different words that you’ll hear in different countries.”


To some students, the Mandarin word, rendered 那个, sounded too much like the N-word for their liking. They sent a letter of complaint to administrators and pressed their grievance in a meeting. Soon after, Patton was removed from the class, investigated, and excoriated in a mass email. “Professor Greg Patton repeated several times a Chinese word that sounds very similar to a vile racial slur,” Geoffrey Garrett, the Marshall School’s dean, wrote. “Understandably, this caused great pain and upset among students, and for that I am deeply sorry. It is simply unacceptable for faculty to use words in class that can marginalize, hurt and harm the psychological safety of our students.”

To address the note at the top, I did not post the entire article. I posted selected paragraphs, and I added an extra space with '...' in between paragraphs where I had edited out paragraphs.

If you disagree with the action, please take it up in Private Feedback.

 

[laughing dog]

To quote you, words have meaning. I understand the purpose of "figurative" speech. I understand it is fucking stupid hyperbole to represent your indignation instead of a reasoned analysis.

Well, I simply do not value your opinion on my thread titles.

Fair enough since I place no value in your hyperbolic indignation over trivial matters.

 

[J842P]

The responses I'm seeing about how it was a bad joke that was obviously inappropriate is a textbook example of how fake news and misinformation gets so easily spread to fit one's ideological narrative about any and every event even remotely political. Welcome to the Facebook Twitter age. I hope we can recover, but I'm not optimistic it will happen any time soon.

Yup, exactly.

 

[J842P]

If you don't think it was intended as a joke, I'm confused as to what you think it was.

Honest question: have you watched the video?

 

[Politesse]

If you don't think it was intended as a joke, I'm confused as to what you think it was.

He had included it for five years in the same course he had taught previously. Nobody raised an eyebrow, including all the students who went to the same course. It was not obviously problematic then and it is not obviously problematic now.

You and I clearly have different definitions of the word "problematic" as well. Mine is, "causes a problem".

If you go to this professor's website, it says he is an expert in communication.

He's an expert in Communication, but supposedly unaware that his lesson about words that sound like "N*gger" might cause a miscommunication between himsef and his Black students? Fascinating, but I think he may have chosen the wrong specialty!

 

[Politesse]

If you don't think it was intended as a joke, I'm confused as to what you think it was.

Honest question: have you watched the video?

Nope. Bit of a pain to do on my phone. I can, if you really think it is important.

 

[Politesse]

If you don't think it was intended as a joke, I'm confused as to what you think it was.

It was an example of the role filler words play in communication. It says so in the second paragraph.

During a Zoom class on August 20, Greg Patton, a 53-year-old professor, told students that in business settings they should avoid filler words such as um or er. Then he gave another example of a filler word that—I learned—he added to his lecture perhaps five years ago to be more inclusive of international students. “Like in China, the common word is that—that, that, that, that,” he explained. “So in China it might be nèi ge—nèi ge, nèi ge, nèi ge. So there’s different words that you’ll hear in different countries.”

I could think of five or six examples of filler words in conversation that don't include references to the N word without so much as opening a new tab in my browser. So why go there?

 

[J842P]

If you don't think it was intended as a joke, I'm confused as to what you think it was.

Honest question: have you watched the video?

Nope. Bit of a pain to do on my phone. I can, if you really think it is important.

I think it clearly displays it was not a joke.

 

[J842P]

It was an example of the role filler words play in communication. It says so in the second paragraph.

I could think of five or six examples of filler words in conversation that don't include references to the N word without so much as opening a new tab in my browser. So why go there?

Mandarin is an important language in the business world, and indeed, I suspect many business students at Marshall are either of Chinese descent or students from China.

And furthermore, there is no good reason to believe that any person of sound mind would be bothered by this. Because no person of a sound mind would.

 

[Politesse]

Nope. Bit of a pain to do on my phone. I can, if you really think it is important.

I think it clearly displays it was not a joke.

It would be taken as one even if he didn't mean it that way. I assure you, college students laugh whenever a professor says a dirty word or even remotely sounds like a dirty word, regardless of context, and anyone who has taught for thirty years knows that.

 

[Politesse]

It was an example of the role filler words play in communication. It says so in the second paragraph.

I could think of five or six examples of filler words in conversation that don't include references to the N word without so much as opening a new tab in my browser. So why go there?

Mandarin is an important language in the business world, and indeed, I suspect many business students at Marshall are either of Chinese descent or students from China.

And furthermore, there is no good reason to believe that any person of sound mind would be bothered by this. Because no person of a sound mind would.

Well aware of that. That still doesn't make it a prudent idea to use such an example when another would suffice.

 

[barbos]

He wasn't making a joke. Why do you say that? Here's the clip:

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24JhHLpgjXI[/YOUTUBE]

I admit, I don't see anything in his body language which suggests a joke. But then why mention Chinese at all. The guy a weirdo I think.

 

[Metaphor]

It was an example of the role filler words play in communication. It says so in the second paragraph.

I could think of five or six examples of filler words in conversation that don't include references to the N word without so much as opening a new tab in my browser. So why go there?

Because it was not a reference.

 

[Politesse]

It was an example of the role filler words play in communication. It says so in the second paragraph.

I could think of five or six examples of filler words in conversation that don't include references to the N word without so much as opening a new tab in my browser. So why go there?

Because it was not a reference.

So you don't feel the point of the example is that "Neige" can sound kind of like "N*gger"? What is the point then? Why warn them that homophones can cause problems in cross-cultural communication, then follow that up with an anecdote that isn't about homophones causing problems in cross-cultural communication?

It seems to me that if you're smart enough to know that referencing a slur accidentally in a business meeting could cause offense, to disastrous effect even if obviously unintended, you're smart enough to know that the same is true of a college classroom. Especially if you are an "Expert in Communication".

 

[J842P]

Because it was not a reference.

So you don't feel the point of the example is that "Neige" can sound kind of like "N*gger"? What is the point then? Why warn them that homophones can cause problems in cross-cultural communication, then follow that up with an anecdote that isn't about homophones causing problems in cross-cultural communication?

That wasn't the point he was making. Where are you getting your information? Again, you are just making things up in an effort to defend the indefensible.

 

[Toni]

I certainly wouldn't make a "joke" like that in front of my students. He obviously knew that what he was saying would come across as a white guy "getting away with" using the n-word due to a supposedly humorous context (an experience Black students have to put up with constantly) because his whole story does not make sense unless you are aware of the homophone and why it would cause a problem. Especially since he veyr likely misprounounced neige in order to make said joke work at all. .

He wasn't making a joke. Why do you say that? Here's the clip:

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24JhHLpgjXI[/YOUTUBE]

Quite frankly, the students who complained are deranged. If it is true that their mental health was affected, then they probably don't belong at a university.

This certainly doesn't require anything in response, not even a "stern conversation".

No, as I listened to the video, I heard it sounding nearly identical to/identical to (depending on regional accent) the racial slur.

 

[J842P]

Nope. Bit of a pain to do on my phone. I can, if you really think it is important.

I think it clearly displays it was not a joke.

It would be taken as one even if he didn't mean it that way. I assure you, college students laugh whenever a professor says a dirty word or even remotely sounds like a dirty word, regardless of context, and anyone who has taught for thirty years knows that.

These are grad students. And I was a college student only a short while ago. A grad student even shorter. Please don't try to pretend that you cannot have a serious discussion in a graduate class and discuss filler words.

 

[J842P]

I certainly wouldn't make a "joke" like that in front of my students. He obviously knew that what he was saying would come across as a white guy "getting away with" using the n-word due to a supposedly humorous context (an experience Black students have to put up with constantly) because his whole story does not make sense unless you are aware of the homophone and why it would cause a problem. Especially since he veyr likely misprounounced neige in order to make said joke work at all. .

He wasn't making a joke. Why do you say that? Here's the clip:

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24JhHLpgjXI[/YOUTUBE]

Quite frankly, the students who complained are deranged. If it is true that their mental health was affected, then they probably don't belong at a university.

This certainly doesn't require anything in response, not even a "stern conversation".

No, as I listened to the video, I heard it sounding nearly identical to/identical to (depending on regional accent) the racial slur.

So what? It is completely appropriate in this context to use it as an example of a filler word. This requires no reaction, certainly not removal, and people of sound mind wouldn't react the way these students reacted, grown adults actually, probably at least 22 years old. This is embarrassing.

 

[Politesse]

So I sat down and watched the video. And I'll admit, his point makes more sense in context.

He's still an idiot though, and deserves what will no doubt be a brief walk of shame, before getting quietly re-hired at this or some other school.