To Give You a Size of the Immense and Growing Size of Illegal Immigration

[RVonse]

It is a mess, and it's not a mess that can be cleared up with easy answers. I'm a lib, and I want more to be done with border control. The GOP is delighted that there's a problem, and they intend to perpetuate it. It's a huge promotion for their side. Recently, they've refused to fund more personnel at the border, because they want a solution that matches their strategies only. There is not a consistent set of demands (that I've heard), but the sense of it is that they want to do away with just about all measures of asylum and humanitarian parole. If any national GOP figure ever denounced Trump for locking up toddlers and teens apart from their parents, I don't remember it. Do we want to see prison camps for kids again? Is that our identity? Trump seems to do nothing but double down on the excess criminality of immigrants, which is another of his endless lies. In other words, this is a problem that, with our present political setup, is unsolvable. I would support a law that deported anyone who engaged in piggyback immigration, of bringing in a spouse and then the inlaws, because then we could deport Trump.

Thank you for a well thought out post.

For a start it would be very nice if the left would not automatically laugh at Trumps idea when he talks about a border wall. The border wall probably won't work anyway but at least it is the starting symbol to represent the expectation NOT to let illegal immigrants in so easily. Why do we have so much in our budget for other countries and none for our own border fence and for our own sovereign rights? When Trump was POTUS, it was people like Pelosi, Schiff and Schumer who fought tooth and nail against the fence. The left should STOP voting for these people.

You are correct that there are non maga republicans who act like Pelosi and correct to say conservatives should not elect them again either.

 

[RVonse]

If it’s such a big deal to the right then the right should do something about it and quit whining…

Because it is NOT the maga block who has in any way not attempted to do something about it. They are ones who voted for Trump. The left hates Trump so much then find someone else who will even talk about fixing this problem and some of the maga supporters might be convinced to abandon Trump.

 

[Ford]

Fine. But why let the republicans off the hook so easy?!! What the hell have they done about it? They control 50% of government. Illegal immigration went up when trump was president. There is a viable bill right now that the republicans are ignoring. If it’s such a big deal to the right then the right should do something about it and quit whining…

It is also worth noting that (as mentioned above) the GOP is thrilled that there's a problem they can point to and say "Biden bad," but they also drag their feet on any sort of solution while in power because - louder for the people in the back - illegal immigrants are a boon to business. Those businesses that employ them and benefit from that cheap labor donate heavily to Republicans, so how hard do you think they're going to shut down all that?

Sure, they'll scream about caravans and crime, but it's just political theater.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

There are a lot of people on this board who are very disappointed with Trump and maga supporters, and I get that. But what I do not understand is why these same people welcome and celebrate the same politicians and people directly responsible for lost voters in US central states to vote for Trump in the first place? What good can come of all this? With regards to recent court decisions regarding the ballet in Colorado and Maine. Even if you believe immigrants are better people than who already have citizenship in the US... and even if you believe Trump is insurrectionist scum, do you really believe our constitution is being served if the state can assume on assertion alone that that is proof of guilt? , Should not people be allowed to vote for their candidate of choice who is willing to serve their choice NOT to have illegal immigration?

My concern is that as the Democrats force this country into chaos, it will cause SERIOUS blowback of an authoritative regime in the US. Its happened many times in history and after seeing the results of San Francisco I can see why people would rather die in conflict or war rather than live in the chaos favored by the Democrats. A nation divided can not stand. Or if you don't like Abraham Lincolns version, a similar quote made 1800 years earlier, “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand.” — Jesus Christ. It applied then and now.

And for the people who think this is some kind of side issue, let me assure you it is about all the maga supporters are talking about right now.

I am fucking insulted by your post, that you think I stupid enough to be fooled by a Chart's full of shit Title, verses what the legend actually fucking says. "Encounters" v "Immigrants". These are not proportional, these are not the same thing. I am not stupid!

Most of the others here aren't either. But I just took it real personally when your post clearly thinks I'm some stupid ass QAnon idiot who can't fucking read.

 

[repoman]

Fine. But why let the republicans off the hook so easy?!! What the hell have they done about it? They control 50% of government. Illegal immigration went up when trump was president. There is a viable bill right now that the republicans are ignoring. If it’s such a big deal to the right then the right should do something about it and quit whining…

It is also worth noting that (as mentioned above) the GOP is thrilled that there's a problem they can point to and say "Biden bad," but they also drag their feet on any sort of solution while in power because - louder for the people in the back - illegal immigrants are a boon to business. Those businesses that employ them and benefit from that cheap labor donate heavily to Republicans, so how hard do you think they're going to shut down all that?

Sure, they'll scream about caravans and crime, but it's just political theater.

It seems like most of the money that can be made for assisting the migrants will made directly by government employees or NGOs funded by govt grants or charity donations. That side of the money will donate to Democrats.

 

[TSwizzle]

But why let the republicans off the hook so easy?!! What the hell have they done about it?

I seem to remember something about a wall being built along the border.

 

[Politesse]

You mean we should assume law regarding a federal election should be arrived at differently if it is being looked at in a different state? You don't make sense.

It happens, sometimes. Actually, it happens all the time. Luckily, there's a federal court system.

Honestly, if there were some sort obvious split between "blue" and "red" states on the question, your claim would make more sense. But strongly Democratic California is disagreeing with Democrat-leaning Colorado and strongly divided but lately Democratic-leaning Maine, here. If this is the result of a political coalition of some kind, they need to compare notes better.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And as I try to let your insulting post go by... I looked up some numbers and am curious how that chart even looks like that. And then I need to ask what is an "encounter". Is that in the SW, anywhere across the US border, including airports?

Here are the SW encounters from 2021 to current. Some of it appears reasonable, but not the latest info.

 

[Politesse]

. You will be free to "vote against immigration" in November no matter what the Supreme Court decides about the Trump situation, so you should relax a little.

That is exactly NOT the point. In the first place, I wish Trump was not even running this time around and have said so many other times here.

The point being the maga supporters believe that Trump is the ONLY candidate (other than possibly Vivek) who will be courageous enough to even talk about fixing illegal immigration. Having some sort of backbone to go against the "ruling elite" otherwise known as the deep state.

Then they are fucking idiots who don't watch the news (no surprise there) but that still has nothing to do with whether or not insurrectionists should be allowed to run for president or not.

 

[Politesse]

But why let the republicans off the hook so easy?!! What the hell have they done about it?

I seem to remember something about a wall being built along the border.

Which has resulted in....

checking my notes...

re-reading the above thread, here...

a noticeable increase in alleged illegal immigration cases in those states.

Funny, that.

Voting for a complete moron isn't necessarily a great idea, even if you agree with his general ideology.

 

[TSwizzle]

But why let the republicans off the hook so easy?!! What the hell have they done about it?

I seem to remember something about a wall being built along the border.

Which has resulted in....

wait for it...

a noticeable increase in illegal immigration cases in those states.

Funny, that.

On Brandon's watch. Funny that.

 

[Harry Bosch]

But why let the republicans off the hook so easy?!! What the hell have they done about it?

I seem to remember something about a wall being built along the border.

Big Whoop! When the republicans controlled all government, they built 51 miles. But that’s all they did. Nothing else! It did nothing! In trumps last month of office, illegal immigration increased by 300%! What are they doing now? They control the house and half the senate. They do nothing but whine. On 12.16.23 Biden stated that he’s willing “to make significant compromises on border security”. But crickets since then. Republicans are really good at going after big meanie Hunter; but refuse to do anything about the southern hordes invading the US! Sorry but I just can’t stand passive aggressive whiners…

 

[laughing dog]

The phrase "My concern is that as the Democrats force this country into chaos," tells it all.

The graph is another tell - using monthly data, it omits the 4 years under Trump.

You don't think making shop lifting legal and allowing people to piss and shit all over the public commons is not your definition of chaos? Was it conservative ordinances that allowed this chaos to take place?

You brought up chaos in regards to illegal immigration. Why are you shifting the goalposts with hallucinations about making shoplifting legal?

 

[TSwizzle]

But why let the republicans off the hook so easy?!! What the hell have they done about it?

I seem to remember something about a wall being built along the border.

Big Whoop! When the republicans controlled all government, they built 51 miles. But that’s all they did. Nothing else! It did nothing! In trumps last month of office, illegal immigration increased by 300%! What are they doing now? They control the house and half the senate. They do nothing but whine. On 12.16.23 Biden stated that he’s willing “to make significant compromises on border security”. But crickets since then. Republicans are really good at going after big meanie Hunter; but refuse to do anything about the southern hordes invading the US! Sorry but I just can’t stand passive aggressive whiners…

"southern hordes invading". Interesting choice of words.

 

[Harry Bosch]

But why let the republicans off the hook so easy?!! What the hell have they done about it?

I seem to remember something about a wall being built along the border.

Big Whoop! When the republicans controlled all government, they built 51 miles. But that’s all they did. Nothing else! It did nothing! In trumps last month of office, illegal immigration increased by 300%! What are they doing now? They control the house and half the senate. They do nothing but whine. On 12.16.23 Biden stated that he’s willing “to make significant compromises on border security”. But crickets since then. Republicans are really good at going after big meanie Hunter; but refuse to do anything about the southern hordes invading the US! Sorry but I just can’t stand passive aggressive whiners…

"southern hordes invading". Interesting choice of words.

Oh I’ve moved my family into a bomb shelter for protection we are so scared. Hence the poor Wi-Fi…

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

There is a lot we do not know about the data. That said, it's an apples to oranges comparison of encounters to births. Some things to think about:

• What does it look like before Oct 2019? I've seen this before and it wasn't as low.
• An encounter is not the same thing as a person. One person can be encountered many times or not at all.
• An encounter is not necessarily the same as an apprehension, though you'd expect it to be. Some persons might be counted more than once because you encounter them once and then some other time might apprehend them.
• The encounters are not necessarily permanent person increases but they are being compared to births which are an increase in person count. Some illegal immigrants come to the US for work, go back home, and then come again for more work, go back home, and so on. So you may be encountering the same temporary resident over and over.
• Presumably, an encounter with a known illegal immigrant mostly involves an apprehension most times. So is Biden better at apprehending illegal immigrants and Trump failed?

 

[Ford]

The phrase "My concern is that as the Democrats force this country into chaos," tells it all.

The graph is another tell - using monthly data, it omits the 4 years under Trump.

You don't think making shop lifting legal and allowing people to piss and shit all over the public commons is not your definition of chaos? Was it conservative ordinances that allowed this chaos to take place?

You brought up chaos in regards to illegal immigration. Why are you shifting the goalposts with hallucinations about making shoplifting legal?

Are you saying you missed the signing ceremony at the White House where Biden made shoplifting AND public urination legal?

There's also the story about the giant billboards in Mexico with Joe and Kamala saying "come on in! Our border is wide open!"

And don't tell me you missed the one where Biden fired the entire Border Patrol and left all the border crossings completely unmanned. It's all true!!!

 

[ZiprHead]

There are a lot of people on this board who are very disappointed with Trump and maga supporters, and I get that. But what I do not understand is why these same people welcome and celebrate the same politicians and people directly responsible for lost voters in US central states to vote for Trump in the first place? What good can come of all this? With regards to recent court decisions regarding the ballet in Colorado and Maine. Even if you believe immigrants are better people than who already have citizenship in the US... and even if you believe Trump is insurrectionist scum, do you really believe our constitution is being served if the state can assume on assertion alone that that is proof of guilt? , Should not people be allowed to vote for their candidate of choice who is willing to serve their choice NOT to have illegal immigration?

My concern is that as the Democrats force this country into chaos, it will cause SERIOUS blowback of an authoritative regime in the US. Its happened many times in history and after seeing the results of San Francisco I can see why people would rather die in conflict or war rather than live in the chaos favored by the Democrats. A nation divided can not stand. Or if you don't like Abraham Lincolns version, a similar quote made 1800 years earlier, “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand.” — Jesus Christ. It applied then and now.

And for the people who think this is some kind of side issue, let me assure you it is about all the maga supporters are talking about right now.

Law should not be decided based solely on political expediency. None of us had any input whatsoever on the Colorado or Maine decisions, but if I did, my position would be that the legally constituted system of jurisprudence in those states should make their own determinations, based on the law and the evidence with which they have been presented. If anyone involved confessed to wanting to make a decision in a legal case on the basis on politics rather than on the merits of the case, I would want them removed if they were a judge or simply ignore them if they are a common citizen.

And of course your views on immigration are dumb and illogical, but that's not the basis on which either state court should have acted anyway, so it's irrelevant. You will be free to "vote against immigration" in November no matter what the Supreme Court decides about the Trump situation, so you should relax a little.

So if law is not decided based solely on political expediency, how come California made a different decision than Colorado did based on the same case?

Differant states have differant voting regulations. In Michigan, the court determined that the 14th amendment doesn't apply to the primary election process but quite possibly will apply to the general election. That's why the court instructed the filers to bring their case again after the primary.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Look, everyone. The Biden Administration was way better at apprehending illegal immigrants!

Trump barely caught any illegal immigrants at all in April 2020.

Why was he so terrible at his job?

 

[ZiprHead]

Does the Republicans constant screaming that the borders are open actually attract migrants when they hear it?