To Give You a Size of the Immense and Growing Size of Illegal Immigration

[Gospel]

Just seems like you want to say "The US brought it on themselves" and I don't think that is true.

What I’m saying is that the U.S. has played a role in this. More broadly, it’s shortsighted to complain about borders without recognizing our own country’s part in creating the conditions driving migration. If we truly want to reduce the flow of people migrating to the U.S., we should start by ensuring that the U.S. (and its allies) stop promoting instability abroad.

Edit: And no, I don’t believe the blame rests solely with the USA. If I did, I’d say that outright.

 

[Gospel]

It would also help if the aid we provide to Central America wasn’t mismanaged, but expecting that from the U.S. government is a tall order.

 

[Rhea]

From the footage of the southern border I've seen, thousands of Chinese nationals have come into the USA illegally. I doubt US foreign policy was causing that. But in any event, most the the asylum claims will likely be bogus and nothing to do with US foreign policy.

Dood. Turn off the TV and go live life! You’ve seen”footage of the southern border” showing “thousands of chinese nationals” come to the US illegally?

I think in all the years I’ve been alive, I’ve only ever seen footage of, like maybe 50 people overall crossing the border illegally.

How do you get enough time to see thousands, of just the Chinese ones! and still have time to make a living in California!?!?

 

[TSwizzle]

No need for the tone of the majority of your posts but here you are..

Jog on.

 

[TSwizzle]

Just seems like you want to say "The US brought it on themselves" and I don't think that is true.

What I’m saying is that the U.S. has played a role in this. More broadly, it’s shortsighted to complain about borders without recognizing our own country’s part in creating the conditions driving migration. If we truly want to reduce the flow of people migrating to the U.S., we should start by ensuring that the U.S. (and its allies) stop promoting instability abroad.

“Promoting instability”? Where do you get that idea? I see millions of people entering the US illegally from reasonably stable but poor countries looking for free shit provided by our government. Most are not refugees but economic migrants.

Edit: And no, I don’t believe the blame rests solely with the USA. If I did, I’d say that outright.

Is this why Europe is also being overrun with “migrants”?

 

[bilby]

No need for the tone of the majority of your posts but here you are..

Jog on.

I don't think that was a request for an example, but thanks anyway, I guess.

 

[ZiprHead]

Poor Stevie.

 

[Shadowy Man]

You don’t understand. The louder you make your statement the truer it must be.

 

[pood]

From the footage of the southern border I've seen, thousands of Chinese nationals have come into the USA illegally. I doubt US foreign policy was causing that. But in any event, most the the asylum claims will likely be bogus and nothing to do with US foreign policy.

Dood. Turn off the TV and go live life!

Specifically you mean, turn off Faux News.

 

[Emily Lake]

Exactly, all the focus is on their arrival and what to do about it, while neither Trump nor Harris seems interested in addressing the root causes of why they're coming in the first place.

I'm curious why anyone thinks that US politicians should meddle in the governments of foreign countries to the extent that would be needed to actually address those root causes. The US has a pretty poor track record when it comes to "improving" the governance of other countries, and we are pretty routinely castigated for having attempted to do so. So this idea that any US president should endeavor to "fix" a foreign country in order to reduce the volume of immigrants trying to illegally enter the US is something I find baffling.

I'd much rather close down immigration and get our own house in order. Once we have a thriving economy without so much homelessness and without 10% of our citizens living in poverty... then we look to welcoming immigrants in.

Asylum seekers coming to the U.S. often hail from countries where U.S. foreign policy has significantly contributed to the conditions forcing them to flee. That's the point I was making. It’s not a call for the U.S. to meddle further in other governments—it's a call for those complaining about immigration to direct their frustration at our own government for creating these problems in the first place and to demand that they stop making things worse.

But noooo!!! Build the wall!! build the wall.!! Fucking ignorant asses.

Yes, our meddling created the conditions in some of those countries, but certainly not all of them. And I certainly do direct a portion of my ire toward the prior administrations that meddled in foreign affairs. That doesn't imply that I should now just throw up my hands and say "oh well, nothing we can do, let them all in" does it?

What do you think our current administration is doing that makes the problems worse in those foreign countries?

 

[Emily Lake]

Take it up with Brandon.

By the way, I genuinely couldn’t care less about either political party. In fact, I believe we should abolish political parties altogether, along with the money that fuels them, and implement elections that are entirely publicly funded at both the state and federal levels. Just as you're tired of being associated with Trump, I'm equally fed up with being tied to any of the nonsense we currently refer to as U.S. politics.

Just be careful, there's a rather high risk that you being fed up with both parties failing in their duty to we citizens will get you labeled a nazi-sympathizing fascist by some poster or another. Thinking both parties are full of crap is tantamount to wanting to destroy democracy, dontchaknow?

 

[Emily Lake]

You don't truly need a citation; using "citation needed" seems more like a way to sidestep the point I’m making. I mentioned that asylum seekers often come from countries where U.S. foreign policy has played a significant role in creating instability. Surely, you're not arguing that U.S. policy had no influence at all—perhaps your position is that its role was smaller than I suggested? If you genuinely believe the U.S. played no role, then I'll take your "citation needed" as the sidestep it was meant to be and leave it at that.

It is estimated around 10+ million people have entered the US illegally, many of them claiming asylum and I doubt many of them will show up to court to hear their case in five (ten, never?) years time. How many of these millions asylum seekers do you reckon are down to US foreign policy? I think it is a drop in the ocean myself but you must think it significant to bring it up?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So it's unreasonable to believe that U.S. foreign policy played a significant role when many of the countries these asylum seekers are coming from have a documented history of U.S. policy failures? Given the long-standing impact of U.S. interventions, economic sanctions, and political interference in regions like Central America and the Middle East, it’s hardly a “drop in the ocean.” These policies have contributed to the instability that drives people to flee in the first place, making it a critical factor worth considering in the broader discussion of immigration.

Shall we focus on the wall, then? I'm certain that will stop them from coming here. I'm certain the wall can protect us from human ingenuity.

It's not unreasonable to believe so... but I do think some references are appropriate. For example, we fucked up nicaragua (?) with our meddling some 40 years back, definitely, but do you think that illegal border crossers coming in now are the result of actions from four decades ago? I definitely confess to a degree of ignorance here, so please educate me on what meddling the US has done in the last decade or so that can be reasonably tied to the swell of border crossers we've been seeing the past few years.