To Give You a Size of the Immense and Growing Size of Illegal Immigration

[bilby]

No one should be a commander of anyone or anything unless that person has earned that right serving and willing to serve the front line themselves.

Unlike many of his contemporaries, Dwight D. Eisenhower had no front line experience from the Great War.

His chief opponent in the European Theatre was commanded by a man with extensive front line experience in the Ypres Salient, where he won the Iron Cross; And on the Somme, where he was wounded by shellfire. After two months in a military hospital, he returned to the front, and fought in the battles of Arras and Passchendaele, ending the war at the rank of Gefreiter, roughly equivent to the modern E-2 (NATO: OR-2) - i.e. Private (US Army), or Private First Class (USMC). He was temporarily blinded by Mustard Gas in October 1918, just a few weeks before the war ended.

The second guy lost massively against the first (you may have heard about it); A significant role in his defeat was played by his insistence that his frontline experience made his decisions superior to those of his generals, who he often overruled.

 

[Patooka]

The second guy lost massively against the first (you may have heard about it); A significant role in his defeat was played by his insistence that his frontline experience made his decisions superior to those of his generals, who he often overruled.

Though to be fair, RVonse openly supports theories from a guy who slept with copies of Second Guy's speeches by his bed for years. So this might not be the compelling argument you might think. MAGA supporters might misconstrue your point on this and start wearing brown as a result.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

We are all humans and that's all that matters. And, anyone who half pays attention knows that immigrants commit far fewer crimes statistically compared to those who have been born and bred the US. Plus, nobody is supporting totally open borders. Morally intact people want to allow asylum seekers and those who can add to the quality of our nation to have a chance to become a part of our country.

Both parties are supporting totally open borders, wake the hell up! Besides greatly affecting the demand and supply curve of general labor, the influx of chaos is just what they want in order to distract the populace from preventing any of their real agenda.

Its got nothing at all to do with the quality of people entering the country and everything to do with our handlers in Washington doing the bidding of the plutocrat elites in charge.

What exactly would you like to see as a border policy?

"Open" and "Closed" are not answers.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Are you disputing that there was more immigration during Biden/Harris than Trump/Pence? Are you disputing that Biden/Harris took down Trump orders right after assuming office?

Who cares if Harris was a border czar (even though she was). Her (and the Biden) administration did less than nothing to solve the problem. Trump is absolutely correct during the debate that all Biden had to do was leave alone the work that was already in place and less immigrants would have crossed the border. Instead they made the problem so much worse.

The Felon had some policies that were truly atrocious. Separating children from parents and apparently not even keeping records. That is way up their on the evil axis. I don't believe there is any crime whatsoever that warrants such a punishment. (I can see deliberately blocking access because the child was in danger from the parent, but that would about safety, not punishment.)

But The Felon doesn't understand good and evil.

 

[ZiprHead]

Who cares if Harris was a border czar (even though she was).

No, she wasn't. She had no responsibility over the border.

 

[Ford]

Who cares if Harris was a border czar (even though she was).

No, she wasn't. She had no responsibility over the border.

In the past few weeks, the Republican party has decided that Harris was in fact responsible for every single policy that the Biden administration has promoted/enacted over the past 3 1/2 years. While their candidate is STILL desperate to have Joe take back the candidacy, his party is desperate to pin every single Biden accomplishment and/or failure upon Kamala. In the last few weeks, Harris has gone from the most ineffective VP in history to the driving force behind the administration who was perhaps even more powerful than the puppet-master Obama.

 

[Toni]

Who cares if Harris was a border czar (even though she was).

No, she wasn't. She had no responsibility over the border.

In the past few weeks, the Republican party has decided that Harris was in fact responsible for every single policy that the Biden administration has promoted/enacted over the past 3 1/2 years. While their candidate is STILL desperate to have Joe take back the candidacy, his party is desperate to pin every single Biden accomplishment and/or failure upon Kamala. In the last few weeks, Harris has gone from the most ineffective VP in history to the driving force behind the administration who was perhaps even more powerful than the puppet-master Obama.

Yeah Ive noticed the same thing. And unfortunately, a continuation of the trope that Biden is a feeble old man who is incapable of carrying out the duties of his office. The trope is very much alive among leftists.

I confess that I see political parties as a necessary evil but I've been solidly in the Democrat camp for a long time now. This is enough to make me jump ship the second a better alternative arrives on scene.

 

[Ford]

Who cares if Harris was a border czar (even though she was).

No, she wasn't. She had no responsibility over the border.

In the past few weeks, the Republican party has decided that Harris was in fact responsible for every single policy that the Biden administration has promoted/enacted over the past 3 1/2 years. While their candidate is STILL desperate to have Joe take back the candidacy, his party is desperate to pin every single Biden accomplishment and/or failure upon Kamala. In the last few weeks, Harris has gone from the most ineffective VP in history to the driving force behind the administration who was perhaps even more powerful than the puppet-master Obama.

Yeah Ive noticed the same thing. And unfortunately, a continuation of the trope that Biden is a feeble old man who is incapable of carrying out the duties of his office. The trope is very much alive among leftists.

I confess that I see political parties as a necessary evil but I've been solidly in the Democrat camp for a long time now. This is enough to make me jump ship the second a better alternative arrives on scene.

I confess that at the beginning of my participation in politics, I was pretty Republican. Registered as such, cast my first Presidential vote for Reagan (I was young) and then for Bush 41. I broke away after that, voted for Clinton, but switched my registration to independent. Tried to focus on the candidate rather than the party, voted for both Republicans and Democrats, but tended to come down on the side of a sane, moderate, non-religious fanatic conservative if available. My former party completely lost me when the Tea Party folks took over, but somehow the MAGA faction makes even them look downright reasonable.

We're still in the "honeymoon" phase of the Harris campaign (a month long honeymoon sure is long, isn't it?) but it does seem that the Republicans, independents, and former Republicans are gravitating towards her for not much less than "well at least she's not insane." Old guard Republicans are speaking up and saying "I don't agree with her on everything, but she's not Trump."

IF the upcoming election is a blowout, and IF the remaining sane people in the Republican Party are smart, then perhaps they will purge the MAGA element and begin the slow and difficult process of rebuilding their party into something more than just a cult of personality.

 

[Toni]

Who cares if Harris was a border czar (even though she was).

No, she wasn't. She had no responsibility over the border.

In the past few weeks, the Republican party has decided that Harris was in fact responsible for every single policy that the Biden administration has promoted/enacted over the past 3 1/2 years. While their candidate is STILL desperate to have Joe take back the candidacy, his party is desperate to pin every single Biden accomplishment and/or failure upon Kamala. In the last few weeks, Harris has gone from the most ineffective VP in history to the driving force behind the administration who was perhaps even more powerful than the puppet-master Obama.

Yeah Ive noticed the same thing. And unfortunately, a continuation of the trope that Biden is a feeble old man who is incapable of carrying out the duties of his office. The trope is very much alive among leftists.

I confess that I see political parties as a necessary evil but I've been solidly in the Democrat camp for a long time now. This is enough to make me jump ship the second a better alternative arrives on scene.

I confess that at the beginning of my participation in politics, I was pretty Republican. Registered as such, cast my first Presidential vote for Reagan (I was young) and then for Bush 41. I broke away after that, voted for Clinton, but switched my registration to independent. Tried to focus on the candidate rather than the party, voted for both Republicans and Democrats, but tended to come down on the side of a sane, moderate, non-religious fanatic conservative if available. My former party completely lost me when the Tea Party folks took over, but somehow the MAGA faction makes even them look downright reasonable.

We're still in the "honeymoon" phase of the Harris campaign (a month long honeymoon sure is long, isn't it?) but it does seem that the Republicans, independents, and former Republicans are gravitating towards her for not much less than "well at least she's not insane." Old guard Republicans are speaking up and saying "I don't agree with her on everything, but she's not Trump."

IF the upcoming election is a blowout, and IF the remaining sane people in the Republican Party are smart, then perhaps they will purge the MAGA element and begin the slow and difficult process of rebuilding their party into something more than just a cult of personality.

I'd like to see that happen but I have no confidence that it will. Too many billionaires controlling too much media with too much self interest to let anything like genuine sanity prevail.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

IF the upcoming election is a blowout, and IF the remaining sane people in the Republican Party are smart, then perhaps they will purge the MAGA element and begin the slow and difficult process of rebuilding their party into something more than just a cult of personality.

This is terribly unrealistic, to the point of delusional.

In 2025, the US House will consist primarily of the existing US House, the US Senate will consist primarily of the existing US Senate. SCOTUS will remain the exact same for an unknown period of time.

The US House consists of a GOP that is enamored over CRT, transgenders, and isolationism. That isn't changing.
The non-insane portion of the GOP in the US Senate (the ones that successfully stole a SCOTUS seat, but not the US Election) are aging out and being replaced by JD Vances.
SCOTUS... has set America back 70 years in regulatory law (in a major power grab) and reproductive rights law. They are ruling as they want to rule on whatever they want to rule and we are one SCOTUS case away from abortion being outlawed in America.

With regards to the immediate future, we've already lost the war. 2024 is about waging a revolution of which we might be able to return sanity to America around 2036. The dam is failing and we are just barely holding it back with Presidential victories. We lost the battles in 2000 and 2016 and that was that. SCOTUS has become a strong right-wing power that is seizing Government powers and restricting citizen rights. And if we do not hold the Senate, even if VP Harris wins, her ability to nominate Federal Court judges will be restrained.

 

[Emily Lake]

I wonder if there's something in the air that is causing all these totally insane conspiracy theories these days, and why do people believe this crazy shit?

It's not in the air, it's in the internet.

Social media gives everyone a voice, while also allowing for such intense selection that outside views are severely muted. This creates very real echo chambers, in which a small number of real people amplify each other's absurd views so loudly that they mistake volume for breadth. They hear their own views repeated back to them over and over, often with some pretty strong prompts toward conformity. The end result is that people who start out holding largely reasonable views with one or two whacky ideas (because we're human and all of us hold some odd ideas sometimes) end up shifting their reasonable views to align with the loudest voices.

Social media gives every idiot an equal voice. And when the insane people are presented as if their views hold just as much weight... we end up with this as a result.

 

[Emily Lake]

The number of people in the UK who want American style gun rights can be counted on the fingers of one foot.

I want to meet this person with fingers on their feet... and we're going to need more feet while we're at it. I personally know several UK citizens who want US style gun rights. Granted, that's only a handful of people that I know out of several million citizens... but still.

Just because you don't personally know any doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

[Emily Lake]

Exactly, all the focus is on their arrival and what to do about it, while neither Trump nor Harris seems interested in addressing the root causes of why they're coming in the first place.

I'm curious why anyone thinks that US politicians should meddle in the governments of foreign countries to the extent that would be needed to actually address those root causes. The US has a pretty poor track record when it comes to "improving" the governance of other countries, and we are pretty routinely castigated for having attempted to do so. So this idea that any US president should endeavor to "fix" a foreign country in order to reduce the volume of immigrants trying to illegally enter the US is something I find baffling.

I'd much rather close down immigration and get our own house in order. Once we have a thriving economy without so much homelessness and without 10% of our citizens living in poverty... then we look to welcoming immigrants in.

 

[Emily Lake]

We’ll see how long that lasts before the next uninformed clown gets voted in by people who don’t know any better and ruins it. Like I said, the conversation about how we got here isn’t happening nearly enough. Also, judging by how America has handled the region I'd be more confident if the money was just handed over to Russia or China and let them do it.

I'm actually not keen on greenlighting oppositional countries taking over as proxy governments for some of our nearest neighbors.

France - we can let France do it. Or maybe Portugal. Singapore might be a good choice.

 

[RVonse]

We are all humans and that's all that matters. And, anyone who half pays attention knows that immigrants commit far fewer crimes statistically compared to those who have been born and bred the US. Plus, nobody is supporting totally open borders. Morally intact people want to allow asylum seekers and those who can add to the quality of our nation to have a chance to become a part of our country.

Both parties are supporting totally open borders, wake the hell up! Besides greatly affecting the demand and supply curve of general labor, the influx of chaos is just what they want in order to distract the populace from preventing any of their real agenda.

Its got nothing at all to do with the quality of people entering the country and everything to do with our handlers in Washington doing the bidding of the plutocrat elites in charge.

What exactly would you like to see as a border policy?

"Open" and "Closed" are not answers.

We should copy what the other countries are doing successfully if we can not come up with our own solutions. In the meantime, the military should secure our borders from invaders. This is what the border between North Sinai and Egypt looks like and they appear to have a secure border with it: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34902834
If the US can give huge sums of money to Ukraine and Israel perhaps it can afford to build and enforce a decent fence. Some sort of task force to reduce incentives for them coming would also help. Here is a video of of a person who has witnessed first hand in Panama where the problem starts.

But also important is visibility of this issue itself. For whatever reasons, the Democrat half of our country do not even know there is a problem since there are political reasons causing the media they watch to completely ignore this. I actually have faith the typical Democrat would actually oppose most of this even if they felt it helped them win elections with fraud. I'm not sure how you fix this other than breaking up media monopolies that have contributed greatly to this issue in the first place.

 

[Harry Bosch]

We are all humans and that's all that matters. And, anyone who half pays attention knows that immigrants commit far fewer crimes statistically compared to those who have been born and bred the US. Plus, nobody is supporting totally open borders. Morally intact people want to allow asylum seekers and those who can add to the quality of our nation to have a chance to become a part of our country.

Both parties are supporting totally open borders, wake the hell up! Besides greatly affecting the demand and supply curve of general labor, the influx of chaos is just what they want in order to distract the populace from preventing any of their real agenda.

Its got nothing at all to do with the quality of people entering the country and everything to do with our handlers in Washington doing the bidding of the plutocrat elites in charge.

What exactly would you like to see as a border policy?

"Open" and "Closed" are not answers.

We should copy what the other countries are doing successfully if we can not come up with our own solutions. In the meantime, the military should secure our borders from invaders. This is what the border between North Sinai and Egypt looks like and they appear to have a secure border with it: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34902834
If the US can give huge sums of money to Ukraine and Israel perhaps it can afford to build and enforce a decent fence. Some sort of task force to reduce incentives for them coming would also help. Here is a video of of a person who has witnessed first hand in Panama where the problem starts.

But also important is visibility of this issue itself. For whatever reasons, the Democrat half of our country do not even know there is a problem since there are political reasons causing the media they watch to completely ignore this. I actually have faith the typical Democrat would actually oppose most of this even if they felt it helped them win elections with fraud. I'm not sure how you fix this other than breaking up media monopolies that have contributed greatly to this issue in the first place.

The dems didn’t kill the republican created border bill. Trump did.

 

[RVonse]

We are all humans and that's all that matters. And, anyone who half pays attention knows that immigrants commit far fewer crimes statistically compared to those who have been born and bred the US. Plus, nobody is supporting totally open borders. Morally intact people want to allow asylum seekers and those who can add to the quality of our nation to have a chance to become a part of our country.

Both parties are supporting totally open borders, wake the hell up! Besides greatly affecting the demand and supply curve of general labor, the influx of chaos is just what they want in order to distract the populace from preventing any of their real agenda.

Its got nothing at all to do with the quality of people entering the country and everything to do with our handlers in Washington doing the bidding of the plutocrat elites in charge.

What exactly would you like to see as a border policy?

"Open" and "Closed" are not answers.

We should copy what the other countries are doing successfully if we can not come up with our own solutions. In the meantime, the military should secure our borders from invaders. This is what the border between North Sinai and Egypt looks like and they appear to have a secure border with it: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34902834
If the US can give huge sums of money to Ukraine and Israel perhaps it can afford to build and enforce a decent fence. Some sort of task force to reduce incentives for them coming would also help. Here is a video of of a person who has witnessed first hand in Panama where the problem starts.

But also important is visibility of this issue itself. For whatever reasons, the Democrat half of our country do not even know there is a problem since there are political reasons causing the media they watch to completely ignore this. I actually have faith the typical Democrat would actually oppose most of this even if they felt it helped them win elections with fraud. I'm not sure how you fix this other than breaking up media monopolies that have contributed greatly to this issue in the first place.

The dems didn’t kill the republican created border bill. Trump did.

See the above in bold.

 

[robnisch]

^
The same same argument always sounds, to me, like the kid on the playground that gets caught doing something and he retorts "Johny did it first".

 

[Patooka]

The dems didn’t kill the republican created border bill. Trump did.

See the above in bold.

Both parties are supporting totally open borders, wake the hell up!

You have a long and very well documented history of apologising for Trump, and your first response to when Republicans killed the bill was not criticism but excusing their actions blocking any legislation that would fix the border.

Simply put, there is no reason anyone should believe your statement that you genuinely think "both sides" are to blame. Your credibility is questionable at best.

 

[LoAmmo]

Rvonse:
“In the meantime, the military should secure our borders from invaders.”

Psst. A little thing you pretend to be a fan of specifically prohibits this. (Look up “posse comitatus act” if you don’t know what I’m talking about—and, spoiler alert, you don’t.)

The real question is…now that you know it’s illegal, is your reaction to:

A) reconsider—and perhaps even amend your initial response in light of the new information, or…

B) Double down on it, with a misguided flurry of equivocation and hand-waving that makes Trump right, and you…somehow “not wrong?”

I’m not a betting man—but I have a strong favorite.