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Trump and neocons started War with Iran in order to win elections?

Elixir said:
Trump should fake his own death and collect the bounty.

1) Ensures he will never be convicted by the Senate
2) Absolves his debts to Deripaska, Putin, Firtash et al
3) No more putting up with sourpuss Malaria
4) Puts $80m in his pocket to pay for hookers
5) Delights fans of humanity the world over
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Dude, we can do with out that image. Otherwise, it is actually a decent idea for Trump.
 
Derec said:
And why should we believe the word of the acting Iraqi PM? He is an Iranian stooge anyway.
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Because it is closer to the believable truth. Ultimately, the Trump Admin assassinated an Iranian General on Iraqi soil, without thinking of a single consequence of the action, just as if it was a tariff against China. The attack puts Iraq in a weird place, both in that an Iranian General (Iran in a growing ally of Iraq) was killed on their soil by an ally who didn't inform them of the attack. At the same time, Trump is badgering Iraq about how much they owe the US like they are an obstinate teenager.

Trump has no bloody clue what he is doing, the potential consequences, both for immediate American interests, but long term American interests in the region. Iraq is certainly looking at the US action with significant thoughts on the betrayal of the Syrian Kurds by the Trump Admin / America. These decisions aren't just hurting the Trump Admin's image... it is soiling what is left of the tattered image of the US in the Middle East in general.

Iraq began improving in '07 because the US and Iraq became more aligned. ISIS's territory was dismantled largely because of teamwork between the Syrian Kurds and the US military. These alliances might no longer be possible in the coming decades because of the actions of the dumbest motherfucker (daughter?) to ever sit in the Oval Office.
 
I like the idea of bombing someone to stop a war

I guess if we can KEEP bombing people, that will ensure world peace.

After all, the first World War was known as the "War to end all Wars"

Then, the moment bombing stopped, World War 2 started brewing

Bombs away !!
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John Cleese (on Twitter)
 
Guy who green lit murdering and dismembering Saudi journalist in Saudi Embassy in Turkey makes a "call for restraint".
article said:
Saudi Deputy Defense Minister Khalid bin Salman (KBS) will “call for restraint” and discuss "de-escalation" in a meeting with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo in DC today, a Saudi government source told CNN.
The source said Saudi authorities are concerned about an escalation following the killing of Iranian general Qasem Soleimani.

“We know what that looks like… We don’t want chaos in the region. We have been a target before. We could be a target again,” the source said.
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Derec said:
ZiprHead said:
Just because we have a sane Supreme Court and a sane Democratic party doesn't mean there aren't a lot of insane christians around.
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Oh please. If there were really that many Christians like that around in the US, we would not have a sane SCOTUS or a sane Democratic Party - many believing Christians in the Democratic Party.

The Trump administration voted against a UN resolution condemning the death penalty for gays in other countries.
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Trump administration launches global effort to end criminalization of homosexuality

But I know - orange man bad. Worse than the Ayatollah even according to sufferers from TDS.
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Who said anything like what you portray? Strawman much?
 
Derec said:
Oh please. If there were really that many Christians like that around in the US, we would not have a sane SCOTUS or a sane Democratic Party - many believing Christians in the Democratic Party.
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But we needed SCOTUS to say segregation was illegal! Gay sex wasn't decriminalized throughout the US until the 21st century (!) when SCOTUS ruled as such... and that wasn't even unanimous!

No, gays aren't being lynched like blacks were being lynched, but it could be noted that blacks were getting lynched by true believers until DC decided to finally step in and say ENOUGH! Meanwhile uber conservative Christians have been lobbying for violence against gays in Africa and have succeeded in a number of nations.
Trump administration launches global effort to end criminalization of homosexuality

But I know - orange man bad. Worse than the Ayatollah even according to sufferers from TDS.
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How is TDS even a claim when Trump has been legitimately the worst president ever.
 
  • Soleimani was targeted and assassinated by a US drone on Iraqi soil
  • Soleimani was replaced with a person who (unlike in a television show) isn't a US agent and has likewise feeling for the US
  • In an attempt to further peace, US President publicly threatened to target 52 potential Iranian locations, including cultural sites (not certain if he means Cyrus's resting place or mosques?)
  • US President threatens sanctions against ally (former ally soon?) if they ask Americans military to leave Iraq (America kind of violated Iraqi sovereignty with the assassination)
  • Iran has formerly withdrawn from the nuclear deal which seemed like the deal of the century when the US, Russia, China altogether managed to come to an agreement with Iran on their nuclear weapons program (something of which may never be possible again)
  • And Trump has ALL CAPPED that Iran will never get a nuclear weapon.

Trump betrayal of Syrian Kurds gained the US nothing.
So Soleimani's assassination didn't result in much benefit to the US as he was replaced by another guy that isn't saluting the US flag.
Soleimani's assassination provided Iran the path to finally ignore the nuclear agreement.
Trump threatens further violence in the name of peace, including war crime targets.

And most importantly, the GOP is silent. Trump's actions have provided, at best, negligibly short-term gratification by killing a guy who targeted US troops between '03 and '07, but overwhelmingly provides no long-term benefit and has destabilized relations with allies and adversaries in the region, provoking mass distrust that the US might never regain for a century.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Elixir said:
Trump should fake his own death and collect the bounty.

1) Ensures he will never be convicted by the Senate
2) Absolves his debts to Deripaska, Putin, Firtash et al
3) No more putting up with sourpuss Malaria
4) Puts $80m in his pocket to pay for hookers
5) Delights fans of humanity the world over
Click to expand...
Dude, we can do with out that image. Otherwise, it is actually a decent idea for Trump.
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Staff removed it... it came from the link already provided here...
but I understand.
 
Funny the back and forth of extremes...

Jason: Both parties are just as bad.

Others: The Dems do it strategically.

Libya was strategic and/or necessary?

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/...ikes-killed-civilians-that-shouldnt-have-been
Recent drone and other airstrikes against extremist targets have killed large numbers of people. A strike on an Islamic State training camp in western Libya in February killed more than 40 people; a drone strike in Somalia against al-Shabab on March 5 killed 150 people. Another drone strike, in Yemen in February, killed dozens.

The U.S. came under heavy criticism for a drone strike several years ago against extremists in Yemen, which critics said actually hit a wedding party and killed women and children.

In October, an AC-130 gunship mistakenly hit a hospital in Afghanistan that was run by the charity organization Doctors Without Borders. The group has demanded that the strike be investigated as a war crime. The Pentagon disciplined several officers and enlisted personnel for their part in the attack.
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funinspace said:
Funny the back and forth of extremes...
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That's the problem with extremes.

Jason: Both parties are just as bad.
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Exactly. False equivalence.

Others: The Dems do it strategically.
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Which is true.

Libya was strategic
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Yes.

and/or necessary?
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I said "strategically necessary" not "strategic and/or necessary." It's not a binary, so it can't be separated.

So, let's go to your source and look at it in regard to strategically necessary as opposed to self-serving, which was my metric:

A strike on an Islamic State training camp in western Libya in February killed more than 40 people
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That would appear to have been a strategically necessary mission and not a self serving one, but if you have additional evidence--as we do in regard to Trump's recent actions--that would argue Obama ordered that strike for self serving reasons, by all means present it.

a drone strike in Somalia against al-Shabab on March 5 killed 150 people. Another drone strike, in Yemen in February, killed dozens.
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Absent additional information, it's difficult to assess whether or not those were strategically necessary or self serving, but, again, in light of the President who ordered them, I would go with strategically necessary. Do you have any evidence that these attacks were in any way self serving?

The U.S. came under heavy criticism for a drone strike several years ago against extremists in Yemen, which critics said actually hit a wedding party and killed women and children.
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Which would fall under a strategically necessary TARGET--i.e., "extremists in Yemen"--that evidently got fucked up in the execution. That doesn't change the fact that the target may (or may not) have been strategically necessary to attack as opposed to attacking it for self serving purposes.

In October, an AC-130 gunship mistakenly hit a hospital in Afghanistan that was run by the charity organization Doctors Without Borders.
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You've already noted the "mistakenly" part, so no need to go further.
 
Allegedly $80 million for Trump’s head.

I’d up it to $500 million, but they have to take the entire Trump family alive.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Allegedly $80 million for Trump’s head.

I’d up it to $500 million, but they have to take the entire Trump family alive.
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Can't you see how this thinking is a little sick?

If conservatives were calling to take Obama's whole family alive, wouldn't you say those conservatives are going too far and have gone insane? I've never seen conservatives call for the heads of Obama's kids.
 
Half-Life said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
Allegedly $80 million for Trump’s head.

I’d up it to $500 million, but they have to take the entire Trump family alive.
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Can't you see how this thinking is a little sick?

If conservatives were calling to take Obama's whole family alive, wouldn't you say those conservatives are going too far and have gone insane? I've never seen conservatives call for the heads of Obama's kids.
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No, they just try to say the kids aren't really Obama's.

https://twitter.com/hashtag/anitablanchard
 
Half-Life said:
If conservatives were calling to take Obama's whole family alive, wouldn't you say those conservatives are going too far and have gone insane?
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Absolutely, because Obama wasn't a traitorous piece of shit who just killed a foreign general--thereby risking the lives of millions of completely innocent people both here and abroad--for his own personal gain, then lied about it and instructed his psychophants to do likewise, so there would be absolutely no justifiable reason to make such a call.
 
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