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Trump and neocons started War with Iran in order to win elections?

Loren Pechtel said:
Jolly_Penguin said:
What the US has done is throw away any spectre of credibility for peace. The US should not be the region halfesy around the planet in the first place. And attacks on Iran isn't going to take the "weird beards" as Derec calls them, but rather play directly into their hands and create more support for them. Before Trump, Iran was by all reports respecting and adhering to the deal Obama made with them, and wasn't building nukes. They will be now.
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The problem is that there's no good answer here.

What Iran wants is for us to leave them alone to conquer the Muslim lands--but then they're going to come after the rest of the world. Islam can't accept not being top dog.
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Please provide a link that supports your claim because Iran conquering Muslim lands is delusional enough, but the rest of the world?
 
Derec said:
May I remind you that it was
- Iranian militias that attacked a US base killing a contractor
- Iran that downed our drone
- Iran that attacked Saudi oil facilities
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According to US policy, if the US sends troops into a country, say for example Iraf. If the Irafis defend their country from US troops, those Irafis are considered terrorists or war criminals. Apparently it is wrong to defend yourself from the US.

Think about that. If China were to invade the US, would you line up to defend the US? But doesn't repelling an invader make you a terrorist or a war criminal?

So between Iran and the US it has been strike and counter-strike, as well as insult and counter-insult. The US and Iran have been slap-fighting for decades. You can pick any point in time in which they are hitting back and start counting there and say "see they started it".

Joe hits Bill
Bill hits Joe
Joe hits Bill
Bill hits Joe
Joe hits Bill
Derec starts watching
Bill hits Joe
Derec says Bill started it.

Derec said:
US bases can't be attacked where they don't exist. That doesn't mean US retreat from the ME region and leaving the region to Russia and Iran would be a good idea.
Logic fail.
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Why does the US need to be there?
 
I think what LP meant was Saudi Arabia didn’t like the idea of the US negotiating with Iran, because they hate Iran.
 
ZiprHead said:
Rand Paul, Mike Lee rip administration over 'insulting and demeaning' Iran briefing

"I find this insulting and demeaning ... to the office that each of the 100 senators in this building happens to hold. I find it insulting and demeaning to the Constitution of the United States," Lee said.

Lee did not say which briefer made the assertion but specified that no administration representative contradicted them. He added that he was going to have a "conversation" with Trump about the remarks.

"I find that absolutely insane. I think that's unacceptable," Lee added.

Paul added that he found the briefing "less than satisfying" and knocked the administration for using the 2002 war authorization as the basis for last week's airstrike against an Iranian general.

"I see no way in the world you could logically argue that an authorization to have war with Saddam Hussein has anything to with having war with people currently in Iraq," Paul told reporters.

He added that using the 2002 authorization to justify the strike that killed Gen. Qassem Soleimani in Baghdad was "absurd" and an "insult."

"Let's have the debate, and let's have some senators stand up," Paul said.
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Yeah, I saw an interview with Mike Lee, it is now obvious that FFvC clearly had no justification for this reckless assassination...
 
 
Our school just sent out a message to all parents assuring them that registering the kids for the selective service is NOT the same as drafting them. I don't have kids in the school system, but my coworkers got the message.

Both of their kids are in second grade.


Meanwhile, _I_ got a call pointing out that i had neglected to register, which was a felony, punishable by blah-blabbity-blah. BUT, for a mere $50, i could expedite my registration before the coming crack-down.

Which is funny, because i registered in 1979, AFTER i signed up for the Navy on delayed enlistment. So, I'm probably going to keep the $50...
 
 
Keith&Co. said:
Our school just sent out a message to all parents assuring them that registering the kids for the selective service is NOT the same as drafting them. I don't have kids in the school system, but my coworkers got the message.

Both of their kids are in second grade.


Meanwhile, _I_ got a call pointing out that i had neglected to register, which was a felony, punishable by blah-blabbity-blah. BUT, for a mere $50, i could expedite my registration before the coming crack-down.

Which is funny, because i registered in 1979, AFTER i signed up for the Navy on delayed enlistment. So, I'm probably going to keep the $50...
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Yeah, there's a scam going around the country.
 
Derec said:
I am not aligning myself with Trump. Neither do I hate Muslims. I however, think that political Islam is an existential threat to free societies.
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Agreed. But what action has the US taken on Iran that has led their populace away from political Islamism and what action has it take to push the Iranian populace towards it?

Before the USA went in and toppled the old regime, Iran was on its way towards democracy etc. Then the USA did it's intervention thing and in the wake of it the Islamists rose to power. Then the US invades both Iraq and Afghanistan, surrounding Iran with weapons and the greatest military threat on earth, and talks nonstop about how Iran is evil and bomb bomb Iran. Now Trump has the US military assassinate an Iranian general. Do you really think that will hurt rather than further push Islamism in Iran?

But why do faux-liberals like you align yourself with theocratic Iran?
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Why do you align yourself to encourage more Islamism in Iran and around the world?
 
Derec said:
May I remind you that it was
- Iranian militias that attacked a US base killing a contractor
- Iran that downed our drone
- Iran that attacked Saudi oil facilities

It is Iran that engages in endless aggression.
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Bullshit. Where was this US base and what was it there for? Was it in Maine, protecting America? Where was this drone and what was it up to? Was it in Alabama tracking white supremacists? Since when is Saudi part of the USA?

I guess half-measures will not get rid of the weird beards, but more decisive action would. Most Iranians are sick and tired of the "revolution" anyway.
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Have you spoken with any? They are more sick of US aggression. US aggression is how your "weird beards" get their power. Some regimes have to create false propaganda to demonize an enemy and mobilize their people into supporting them and their regime. Iran doesn't have to do that because the USA creates actual good reasons to hate the USA. Iran striking back against the US will have popular support in Iran not because of Iranian propaganda but because of actual US action.

That was a rotten deal. It removed sanctions on Iran, but would have only prevented them from developing nukes for 15 years.
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So Trump comes along and ends that deal, and changes the 15 to maybe 1.5 years. Great job there.

That America can go to the other side of the planet, invade two countries on either side of Iran, threaten Iran non stop with talk about bombing Iran etc, and then claim IRAN to be the aggressor is mind blowing. You really think Iran is the aggressor? Let me know when you spot an Iranian aircraft carrier off the coast of California, or an Iranian battleship off the coast of New York. I'll let you know when Iran invades and occupies Canada and Mexico.
 
Jolly_Penguin said:
Bullshit. Where was this US base and what was it there for? Was it in Maine, protecting America? Where was this drone and what was it up to? Was it in Alabama tracking white supremacists? Since when is Saudi part of the USA?



Have you spoken with any? They are more sick of US aggression. US aggression is how your "weird beards" get their power. Some regimes have to create false propaganda to demonize an enemy and mobilize their people into supporting them and their regime. Iran doesn't have to do that because the USA creates actual good reasons to hate the USA. Iran striking back against the US will have popular support in Iran not because of Iranian propaganda but because of actual US action.

That was a rotten deal. It removed sanctions on Iran, but would have only prevented them from developing nukes for 15 years.
Click to expand...

So Trump comes along and ends that deal, and changes the 15 to maybe 1.5 years. Great job there.

That America can go to the other side of the planet, invade two countries on either side of Iran, threaten Iran non stop with talk about bombing Iran etc, and then claim IRAN to be the aggressor is mind blowing. You really think Iran is the aggressor? Let me know when you spot an Iranian aircraft carrier off the coast of California, or an Iranian battleship off the coast of New York. I'll let you know when Iran invades and occupies Canada and Mexico.
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Three things to add:
60 Canadians might have just become indirect victims of this tit for tat, waving micro-penises around out-showmanship.

U.S. contractor might mean mercenary. We don't know.

The bad relations with Iran started decades ago. Previous administrations used Iraq to fight Iran beside supporting regime change that led to takeover by crazy people.
 
ZiprHead said:
Keith&Co. said:
Our school just sent out a message to all parents assuring them that registering the kids for the selective service is NOT the same as drafting them. I don't have kids in the school system, but my coworkers got the message.

Both of their kids are in second grade.


Meanwhile, _I_ got a call pointing out that i had neglected to register, which was a felony, punishable by blah-blabbity-blah. BUT, for a mere $50, i could expedite my registration before the coming crack-down.

Which is funny, because i registered in 1979, AFTER i signed up for the Navy on delayed enlistment. So, I'm probably going to keep the $50...
Click to expand...

Yeah, there's a scam going around the country.
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I assume the call came from somewhere in the White House....
 
The Hill on Twitter: "Rep. Pramila Jayapal: "President Trump recklessly assassinated Qasem Soleimani. He had no evidence of an imminent threat or attack." https://t.co/htYowEvXOM" / Twitter
with some video of her in action. AOC is behind her, on the left is Ilhan Omar, and on the right is Barbara Lee
then
Rep. John Rutherford on Twitter: "I was in the same briefing as you, @RepJayapal, and this is absolutely false. You and your squad of Ayatollah sympathizers are spreading propaganda that divides our nation and strengthens our enemies. #Iran https://t.co/iJJfZAtOTp" / Twitter
then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "I find it highly amusing that my coworkers angrily yell stuff like this and then clutch their pearls and cry when they are called out for their racism https://t.co/GrErEZOsqa" / Twitter

Elizabeth Harrington on Twitter: "Absolutely no respect
Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee is talking about American casualties in Iraq
And the socialist squad gossips and giggles in the background
Is this how they treated the briefing, too? Disgusting! https://t.co/pwTP3rTtAy" / Twitter
Has some video. Rashida Tlaib is there, and the gentleman with the goatee on the right is Rep. Mark Pocan

Tom Elliott on Twitter: ".@IlhanMN says she has PTSD and the talk of conflict w/ Iran is making her uneasy https://t.co/jzjUfKjEUY" / Twitter
then
Laura Ingraham on Twitter: "Call the medic! @IlhanMN says she feels “ill a little bit” with all this talk of conflict with Iran. Well, I’m sure her dismissive talk of al Qaeda and 9/11 made a lot of Americans feel way more ill (and angry). https://t.co/JGaKAeonCt" / Twitter
then
Ayanna Pressley on Twitter: "8 yrs old. That’s how old @IlhanMN was when she fled for her life as her home was decimated by war
I know you think war’s a for profit video game @IngrahamAngle but you’d be wise to take a seat and take your cues from folks like Ilhan who actually know what they’re talking about https://t.co/9a0XfFPfwP" / Twitter
 
Jim Banks on Twitter: "Rep. Ilhan Omar complained she’s “stricken with PTSD” because of recent events in the Middle East.
This is a disgrace and offensive to our nation’s veterans who really do have PTSD after putting their life on the line to keep America safe. https://t.co/twhZDuUDu0" / Twitter

Jim Banks on Twitter: "No @IlhanMN - you can’t change the subject.
Your words and actions at today’s press conference reveal your feelings toward our soldiers serving abroad and the video speaks for itself. 👇 https://t.co/T2OREUaIm6" / Twitter
noting
Rep. Jody Hice on Twitter: "Absolutely shameful.
WATCH→ @IlhanMN and other @HouseDemocrats make light of American lives lost overseas.
Our brave men and women in uniform deserve our utmost respect and applause for their service and sacrifice — not mockery and laughter. https://t.co/Lee0tmfGDa" / Twitter

Bobby Lewis on Twitter: "Fox News contributor Sarah Sanders on war powers: "I can't think of anything dumber than allowing Congress to take over our foreign policy ... The last thing we want to do is push powers into Congress' hands and take them away from the president." (h/t .@tylermonroe7) https://t.co/85M0y3E4II" / Twitter
then
Justin Amash on Twitter: "Sarah Sanders can’t think of anything dumber than the Constitution. https://t.co/XmODOrcq1a" / Twitter
 
The word "interests" is always a red flag giveaway. They didn't attack America. They attacked "American interests in the region"... Which is euphemism for all sorts of nasty shit the US does there.
 
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