Trump is a Russian proxy

[Trausti]

Trausti already provided a neat example of cartoonish simpletonism

This whole thread is an example of simpletonism (if that's a word). That the Hilary Clinton campaign made up the Russia collusion hoax is kinda established fact now. But we can trust the NPCs, like bilby, to reliably chant absurdities.

Wow. Even for you.

No. Just typical for him. Trausti has spewed this bullshit many many times before, and has been shown a plethora of evidence many many times before and will still say the exact same horseshit. I don't know whether someone has to be a lying cunt, a dumb cunt or a hyper partisan cunt to still believe in 2022 that Russia was just a hoax after all the guilty pleas, guilty verdicts, sentencing and asset forfeiture, but it is most definitely a bullshit take that has no basis in reality.

Dang, I really ain't paid all that much attention to all that. Is there anything that might lead to that motherfucker going to prison?

Isn't it amazing that despite all the investigations, all the media, all the moral panic, that nothing ever comes of it? Why do you think that is?

 

[Patooka]

That he surrounded himself with some bad apples who got into trouble for some other shit, so what?

The fact you believe that it's all a hoax and it never happened.

 

[laughing dog]

Trausti already provided a neat example of cartoonish simpletonism

This whole thread is an example of simpletonism (if that's a word). That the Hilary Clinton campaign made up the Russia collusion hoax is kinda established fact now. But we can trust the NPCs, like bilby, to reliably chant absurdities.

Wow. Even for you.

No. Just typical for him. Trausti has spewed this bullshit many many times before, and has been shown a plethora of evidence many many times before and will still say the exact same horseshit. I don't know whether someone has to be a lying cunt, a dumb cunt or a hyper partisan cunt to still believe in 2022 that Russia was just a hoax after all the guilty pleas, guilty verdicts, sentencing and asset forfeiture, but it is most definitely a bullshit take that has no basis in reality.

I think the refusal to acknowledge of Russian involvement is simply a symptom of deep TDS.

 

[Trausti]

Trausti already provided a neat example of cartoonish simpletonism

This whole thread is an example of simpletonism (if that's a word). That the Hilary Clinton campaign made up the Russia collusion hoax is kinda established fact now. But we can trust the NPCs, like bilby, to reliably chant absurdities.

Wow. Even for you.

No. Just typical for him. Trausti has spewed this bullshit many many times before, and has been shown a plethora of evidence many many times before and will still say the exact same horseshit. I don't know whether someone has to be a lying cunt, a dumb cunt or a hyper partisan cunt to still believe in 2022 that Russia was just a hoax after all the guilty pleas, guilty verdicts, sentencing and asset forfeiture, but it is most definitely a bullshit take that has no basis in reality.

I think the refusal to acknowledge of Russian involvement is simply a symptom of deep TDS.

Russia has been meddling in US politics since, perhaps, 1917. But there is nothing, nothing, despite all the money and investigations, tying Donald Trump as colluding with Russia. That you still hold on to this like a homesick abortion shows just how crazily effective the propaganda was.

 

[Trausti]

That he surrounded himself with some bad apples who got into trouble for some other shit, so what?

The fact you believe that it's all a hoax and it never happened.

FFS. Let me guess, you still think the Steele Dossier is credible?

And, again, Patooka - do you believe that the DNC server was hacked?

 

[Patooka]

Russia has been meddling in US politics since, perhaps, 1917. But there is nothing, nothing, despite all the money and investigations, tying Donald Trump as colluding with Russia. That you still hold on to this like a homesick abortion shows just how crazily effective the propaganda was.

Show me the post where you haven't mentioned Russia's involvement in the 2016 election as anything other than a hoax. I've listed at least 6 times where you've done exactly that.

I'll wait.

 

[Trausti]

Russia has been meddling in US politics since, perhaps, 1917. But there is nothing, nothing, despite all the money and investigations, tying Donald Trump as colluding with Russia. That you still hold on to this like a homesick abortion shows just how crazily effective the propaganda was.

Show me the post where you haven't mentioned Russia's involvement in the 2016 election as anything other than a hoax. I've listed at least 6 times where you've done exactly that.

I'll wait.

Wow, let's move that goal post. Russia has been doing this since time memorial. They're super trolls. Like when they spread the rumor that J. Edgar Hover wore women's clothes. But the contention is that Trump coordinated with Russia to win in 2016. That's bullshit. It would have come out by now. But nothing.

Again, Patooka, do you believe that the DNC server was hacked?

 

[Trausti]

TRUMP IS A RUSSIAN PROXY!!!!!

Nord Stream 2: Trump approves sanctions on Russia gas pipeline

The Trump administration fears the Nord Stream 2 project will increase Russia's influence in Europe.

www.bbc.com

Nord Stream 2: Biden waives US sanctions on Russian pipeline

The US also waives sanctions on a Putin ally who leads the firm behind the Nord Stream 2 project.

www.bbc.com

 

[Patooka]

Wow, let's move that goal post.

Let's keep the goalposts where they are. Every time the Mueller investigation, Manafort's conviction, Flynn's conviction, the US Senate Intelligence Committee findings et cetera et cetera have been discussed in this forum, your sole contribution over the last five and a bit years is to dismiss all of it as a hoax. It is an extremely dishonest and bad faith argumentative technique and every time people have challenged you on it, you simply fuck off and then regurgitate the exact same shit a couple of months later bleating "Russian Hoax! Russian Hoax! Russian Hoax!", like some meth addled parrot.

Again, Patooka, do you believe that the DNC server was hacked?

No ‘Hoax’: Bipartisan Senate Report Confirms Russian 2016 Role, Putin Ordered DNC Hack, More

A sweeping new report from the Senate Intelligence Committee found that Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered the hack of the Democratic National Committee servers.

www.forbes.com

Read through all the findings yourself. I look forward to you dismissing all of this a Russian Hoax again in a few months time.

 

[JohnG]

What prominent democrat today is advocating for WW3? Or, let's make it even simpler for you to prove your point: which political is for making Ukraine a no-fly zone (which could easily start WW3).

But...but...but: meme?!?!!

Yup, that's your problem right there - the world is awash with simpletons, some of whom (like Trump) are able to get into positions of power and authority.

Simpletons are easily swayed by propaganda. A couple of pictures, ideally showing a strongly emotional facial expression, or an image of sex or violence, and fewer than two dozen words (because reading is for losers, just like thinking), are all that is required to get a complete understanding of any issue, no matter how complex or nuanced.

People who ask you to put in effort and actually think about stuff are never going to be as popular as people who just provide you with a cartoonish direct emotional stimulus.

And popularity is the exact same thing as truth. This is, after all, a democracy.

I was thinking of starting a thread on memes. They are effective on a very lizard brain kind of level. They make a point in much the same way that two words that rhyme do (You can't commit if the glove don't fit) Most make zero sense, but the idea seems to be to trigger an emotion.

I just haven't researched them yet.

 

[Bronzeage]

"Proxy" is not the correct word. Trump is a Russian stooge. No collusion was needed because Trump was going to do what Putin wanted anyway. It's no wonder Trump was so eager to weaken NATO.

In the end, corruption is, as corruption does. We were fortunate to have to suffer only four years of Trump. After 24 years of Putin, the Russian Army can't keep air in the tires.

It is bizarre to see the "Better dead than red" generation suddenly become Russophiles.

 

[Toni]

Trausti already provided a neat example of cartoonish simpletonism

This whole thread is an example of simpletonism (if that's a word). That the Hilary Clinton campaign made up the Russia collusion hoax is kinda established fact now. But we can trust the NPCs, like bilby, to reliably chant absurdities.

Wow. Even for you.

No. Just typical for him. Trausti has spewed this bullshit many many times before, and has been shown a plethora of evidence many many times before and will still say the exact same horseshit. I don't know whether someone has to be a lying cunt, a dumb cunt or a hyper partisan cunt to still believe in 2022 that Russia was just a hoax after all the guilty pleas, guilty verdicts, sentencing and asset forfeiture, but it is most definitely a bullshit take that has no basis in reality.

I think the refusal to acknowledge of Russian involvement is simply a symptom of deep TDS.

Russia has been meddling in US politics since, perhaps, 1917. But there is nothing, nothing, despite all the money and investigations, tying Donald Trump as colluding with Russia. That you still hold on to this like a homesick abortion shows just how crazily effective the propaganda was.

I suppose that one could argue that collusion means conscious awareness that one is working in consort with another entity. I don’t think that Trump consciously works for anyone’s benefit except his own. I’m certain he thought he was being very clever and getting a lot from Putin.

 

[JohnG]

My take on the Russia /Trump story:

Trump did a lot of business with Russians, had plans to expand into Russia, spoke openly (continues to do so) of his fondness for Putin/Russia, and very very likely laundered a lot of money for Russians with real estate.

I can't say for sure because no charges have been laid. I also assume that because money laundering is extremely common, these people are very good at covering their tracks. I never thought at any point that there would be a paper trail that led to Trump. If the guy is going to make a presidential run, every lawyer the GOP and it's backers could hire would make sure of it.

He got expert guidance in his strategy to get ahead of the story, and misdirect it. He wasn't accused of collusion at first, he wasn't accused of anything. His campaign was under scrutiny, it was shown that Russia attempted to interfere with the election by way of stealing emails, and disinformation. Some people didn't take it seriously, some did. I think many people thought America is too awesome to have something like that happen.

What really seemed to bother a lot of people (whether Russia's interference played a role or not) is that Trump seemed to be ok with it.

At the start of the Mueller investigation, Trump controlled the narrative by constantly stating "No Collusion" - knowing full well that none of that business was tied to him personally. Others went down. When the Mueller report came out showing Russia attempted to interfere with the election, Trump claimed victory as Barr exclaimed "No Collusion".

That's how I saw it all go down.

 

[Hermit]

That the Hilary Clinton campaign made up the Russia collusion hoax is kinda established fact now.

The Mueller Report explicitly contradicts your assertion. From the report:

...if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state.

While this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.

Also, Trump was not exonerated by my report, Robert Mueller tells Congress.

Over the course of my career I have seen a number of challenges to our democracy. The Russian government's effort to interfere in our election is among the most serious.

Much more needs to be done in order to protect against this intrusion, by the Russians but others as well.

The Democrat House judiciary committee chairman Jerold Nadler opened questioning on Wednesday by asking Mr Mueller whether Donald Trump had been accurate to claim he was "exonerated" by the special counsel report, to which Mr Muller replied with an emphatic "No".

 

[Patooka]

It is bizarre to see the "Better dead than red" generation suddenly become Russophiles.

I direct your attention to the word, "suddenly". The signs have been there for years. Dana Rohrabacher agrees with me.

 

[Hermit]

It is bizarre to see the "Better dead than red" generation suddenly become Russophiles.

Not really, considering Russia has not been red for three decades. The USSR's communist pretensions have been jettisoned in favour of a repressive, oligarchic kleptocracy. That is precisely what makes Russia so attractive to Republican leaders. The Republican foot soldiers just follow blindly. It's what sheeple and NPCs typically do.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Disagree. I do not think he's a Russian proxy. He's simply too stupid, there's no way Moscow would trust him.

However, I do think someone close to him is working for Moscow--whether it's a matter of money or kompromat I won't even try to guess.

 

[Swammerdami]

Trausti already provided a neat example of cartoonish simpletonism

This whole thread is an example of simpletonism (if that's a word). That the Hilary Clinton campaign made up the Russia collusion hoax is kinda established fact now. But we can trust the NPCs, like bilby, to reliably chant absurdities.

Obviously Trausti believes what he's saying. But this is just evidence of how wide-spread and widely believed QOP-Kremlin disinformation has become. Let's review basic facts, acknowledged by all objective oibservers.

A. The "Steele dossier" project was initially commissioned by a rich anti-Trump Republican, then turned over (via Fusion) to the Clinton campaign, and finally delivered to FBI and British Intelligence. The skill and integrity of Steele himself is not in doubt, Steele had produced highly valued intelligence on Russia for Western intelligence before his Trump project. With such raw intelligence, 80% accuracy is excellent and the dossier appears to meet that standard. (The liars, on the other hand, want us to believe that if one fact in the dossier is disproved then it all is.)

B. Steele himself summarized his report in four points:

1. There were massive Russia-based efforts to interfere with the 2016 U.S. election. (This was not an isolated event. Russia also interfered with the 2017 French election and so on.)
2. The interference was directed by Putin and others of the Russia inner circle.
3. Although sowing general chaos and mistrust was an objective, Russia's efforts were aimed specifically at helping Trump and hurting Clinton.
4. There were "elements of collusion" between the Trump campaign and the Putin-led disinformation campaigns.

Trausti's confusion is unclear: Does he accept points 1,2,3 and disagree only with point 4? Don't know; the — let's face it — moronic level of QOP disinformation is such that most Trumpists may not understand the difference. Pro-democracy Americans, on the other hand, would resent Russia's strong (and successful!) anti-democracy campaign even if there were no "collusion." And do remember that "collusion," like many "white-collar" or vaguely-defined crimes, is very hard to prove. (Recall that it was almost a year before any J6 terrorist was charged specifically with "insurrection.")

Whether or not Trump actively colluded in 2016, there is much evidence that he was being coddled by pro-Putin interests. (Recall, for example, a certain worthless but expensive Central Asian Trump hotel.)

Finally David Frum of The Atlantic does a good job of summarizing the conclusions of a Senate Intelligence Committee report on Trump's possible collusion. Note that that Committee was controlled by Republicans. David Frum himself was a speechwriter for President G.W. Bush, so probably is not a Marxo-Jewish windmill-loving pederast (or whatever meme Tucker Carlson and Alex Jones are currently piping into the heads of Trausti and other well-intentioned victims).

Morning Joe interviews David Frum; they report and discuss this.

Frum lays out 12 points:

1. Dating back to at least 2006, Trump and his companies did tens of millions of dollars of business with Russian individuals and other buyers whose profiles raised the possibility of money laundering. More than one-fifth of all the condominiums sold by Trump over his career were purchased in all-cash transactions by shell companies...
2. In 2013, Trump ... staged the Miss Universe pageant in Moscow [and] opened discussions on the construction of a Trump Tower in Moscow, from which he hoped to earn hundreds of millions of dollars ...
3. ... Trump's representatives directly lobbied aides to Russian President Vladimir Putin in January 2016 [about the Moscow Trump Tower]. Yet repeatedly during the 2016 campaign, Trump falsely stated that he had no business with Russia ...
4. Early in 2016, President Putin ordered an influence operation to "harm the Clinton Campaign, tarnish an expected Clinton presidential administration, help the Trump Campaign after Trump became the presumptive Republican nominee, and undermine the U.S. democratic process." Again, that's from the Senate Intelligence Committee report.
5. ... In May 2016, [Trump campaign adviser] Papadopoulos indiscreetly talked with Alexander Downer ... about Russia's plot to intervene in the U.S. election to hurt Clinton and help Trump; [this] blurt ... set in motion the FBI investigation of Russia's interference in the 2016 presidential election ...
6. In June 2016, the Trump campaign received a request for a meeting from a Russian lawyer offering harmful information on Hillary Clinton. Donald Trump Jr. and other senior Trump advisers accepted the meeting.... Shortly after, Trump delivered his "Russia, if you're listening" invitation at his last press conference of the campaign.
7. ... In the words of the Senate Intelligence Committee: "WikiLeaks actively sought, and played, a key role in the Russian intelligence campaign and very likely knew it was assisting a Russian intelligence influence effort."
8. Through its ally Roger Stone, the Trump campaign team assiduously tried to communicate with WikiLeaks....
9. ... "The Trump Campaign publicly undermined the attribution of the hack-and-leak campaign to Russia and was indifferent to whether it and WikiLeaks were furthering a Russian election interference effort," the Intelligence Committee found.
10. In March 2016, the Trump campaign accepted the unpaid services of Paul Manafort, deeply beholden to deeply shady Russian business and political figures....
11. At crucial moments in the 2016 election, Trump publicly took positions that broke with past Republican policy and served no apparent domestic political purpose, but that supported Putin's foreign-policy goals: scoffing at NATO support for Estonia, denigrating allies such as Germany, and endorsing Britain's exit from the European Union.
12. Throughout the 2016 election and after, people close to Trump got themselves into serious legal and political trouble by lying to the public, to Congress, and even to the FBI about their Russian connections.

@Trausti — Does this help?

 

[Elixir]

this is just evidence of how wide-spread and widely believed QOP-Kremlin disinformation has become.

Indeed. It also speaks to the effectiveness of RW media's tactic of throwing shit at the wall until it is so heavily covered in shit that the very existence of the wall is called into question.
It remains to be seen how long the 'Murkin extreme right can subsist on a diet of shit.

 

[Bronzeage]

Trausti already provided a neat example of cartoonish simpletonism

This whole thread is an example of simpletonism (if that's a word). That the Hilary Clinton campaign made up the Russia collusion hoax is kinda established fact now. But we can trust the NPCs, like bilby, to reliably chant absurdities.

Wow. Even for you.

No. Just typical for him. Trausti has spewed this bullshit many many times before, and has been shown a plethora of evidence many many times before and will still say the exact same horseshit. I don't know whether someone has to be a lying cunt, a dumb cunt or a hyper partisan cunt to still believe in 2022 that Russia was just a hoax after all the guilty pleas, guilty verdicts, sentencing and asset forfeiture, but it is most definitely a bullshit take that has no basis in reality.

I think the refusal to acknowledge of Russian involvement is simply a symptom of deep TDS.

Russia has been meddling in US politics since, perhaps, 1917. But there is nothing, nothing, despite all the money and investigations, tying Donald Trump as colluding with Russia. That you still hold on to this like a homesick abortion shows just how crazily effective the propaganda was.

I suppose that one could argue that collusion means conscious awareness that one is working in consort with another entity. I don’t think that Trump consciously works for anyone’s benefit except his own. I’m certain he thought he was being very clever and getting a lot from Putin.

The only things Trump wanted from Putin was a warm smile, a pat on the head, and maybe a treat. Putin has given us a clear view Trump's sociopathic amorality. Putin has the two thing which Trump values, money and power. For Donald Trump, stolen money and power expressed by threat of murder is as good as any, maybe better because he prefers being feared to being loved.

When Trump and Putin are compared, one thing which separates the two is Putin's wealth has steadily increased, while the Trump family fortune has steadily declined. Of course, one's portfolio is going to increase when you can buy huge government enterprises for kopeks on the ruble. That opportunity doesn't play out in the US, so the best Trump could do was syphon campaign contributions to pay the interest on his mortgaged properties.

The real distinction between Trump and Putin is, Putin is sociopathic amoral and Trump is sociopathic stupid. This means Putin attracts the sociopathic and the amoral, with most of them being a mix of the two. Trump attracts the sociopathic and the stupid, with less of a mixing. The stupid are the ones who stormed the Capitol, thinking it was the right thing to do. The sociopathic are the ones who stood off to the side and told them it was a good idea.