Trying to decide how to respond to Bernie Sanders' fundraising e-mail

[RVonse]

Because the important platforms for Bernie is to get rid of the rigged trade deals and reign in the banksters. Hillary is directly opposed to Bernie on both these extremely important issues but Trump agrees with Bernie. So this makes it very complicated for the middle class who by in large could care less about all of the little crap differences between democrats and republicans.

So I hope Bernie goes balls to the walls as long as he can until Hillary gets it. There is nothing to lose as far as I'm concerned because if Bernie still loses, maybe Trump will hopefully win.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Because the important platforms for Bernie is to get rid of the rigged trade deals and reign in the banksters. Hillary is directly opposed to Bernie on both these extremely important issues but Trump agrees with Bernie. So this makes it very complicated for the middle class who by in large could care less about all of the little crap differences between democrats and republicans.

So I hope Bernie goes balls to the walls as long as he can until Hillary gets it. There is nothing to lose as far as I'm concerned because if Bernie still loses, maybe Trump will hopefully win.

No, there's no hope for that.

 

[Elixir]

The idea is to push her leftwards, irrevocably.

Assumes the irrevocability of any of HRC's "positions"... IOW, assumes facts not in evidence.

And that's a good idea and Sanders has far exceeded any expectations of how much he'd be able to do that. His campaign has been awesome. He's kind of at the point now, however, where he needs to shift tactics or undercut the progress he's made.

Agreed - the point of diminishing returns was Virginia.

 

[untermensche]

There is no specific who. You want to reach as many people as possible and try to persuade them.

Bernie will never have this chance to try to persuade people again.

Is Bernie the only person who can do this, ever? If you want long term change what's your long term strategy?

Have you ever heard a US presidential candidate say the things Bernie says?

 

[Terrell]

Is Bernie the only person who can do this, ever? If you want long term change what's your long term strategy?

Have you ever heard a US presidential candidate say the things Bernie says?

Does that mean that no one can ever say that in the future?

 

[untermensche]

Have you ever heard a US presidential candidate say the things Bernie says?

Does that mean that no one can ever say that in the future?

It means it is rare for this message to have such a voice.

I for one don't want him to stop talking.

 

[Rhea]

I get them because I supported his campaign and contributed to it. Now - I'm very disappointed with how they are running it. So, no contribution and rather send a reply of why they are letting me down. Interesting to think about. I will ponder this as I do my afternoon errands.

How are they letting you down?

Because to run for office requires obscene amounts of money in this oligarchy where the masters let us vote?

I have no problem with them asking for money. I have huge problems with them acting like anarchists. I liked many things on his platform. I feel his current behavior is putting those at risk of no longer having a chance. He's now damaging the platform that I was supporting. In my opinion.

 

[Terrell]

Does that mean that no one can ever say that in the future?

It means it is rare for this message to have such a voice.

I for one don't want him to stop talking.

He can't do this as a Senator? He can't team up with Elizabeth Warren? He's highly unlikely to get the nomination, HRC has too big a lead in the pledged delegates for him to have a realistic chance of catching up.

 

[Rhea]

She could be talking about how it's gotten negative lately. Said negativity isn't being aimed at the Republicans but is instead aimed at the Democrats & HRC.

Are you saying they don't deserve all these negative comments?

I am saying that all the things I supported about Sanders are harmed by those negative comments.
That every time he goes negative against Clinton and the Dems, his chances of making these changes goes down.

I'm fine with him carrying on until the last vote is cast. BUT DON'T DO IT NEGATIVE. If he wins the nomination, he NEEDS all of those Dems to vote for him, he can't do it without them. And now he's pissing them off.

If he wins the nomination and the presidency, he will need a cooperative congress to enact anything - and he's pissing all over them right now.
He NEEDS THE DEMOCRATS to do the things I want him to do and he is THROWING THAT AWAY.

And if he loses the nomination, he needs to have good relations to get his progressive ideals onto the platform. I want them on the platform. But he's pissing people off.

In short NO GOOD comes from him treating the Dems like evil instead of treating them like team members he's trying to convince of a better course.
No matter what the outcome of the nomination and the general election.

 

[Rhea]

If you don't want Trump in the presidency, Clinton is your alternative. What purpose does attacking her or the Democrats serve, if you don't want the Republicans or Trump in power?

Some people care about more than the outcome of the next election.

I believe this calculus is fatally flawed.
Blowing up the system and expecting to come out on top later has a terrible track record.
I believe he has a chance to make big strides right now. But he needs the dems, and he's a fool to think he can do it alone. And it pisses me off that he may be discarding the best chance to make progress.

- - - Updated - - -

Specifically who & how?

There is no specific who. You want to reach as many people as possible and try to persuade them.

Bernie will never have this chance to try to persuade people again.

Bernie won't, no. And he is losing people he had previously persuaded because he switched tactics from building to destroying.

 

[Rhea]

Because the important platforms for Bernie is to get rid of the rigged trade deals and reign in the banksters. Hillary is directly opposed to Bernie on both these extremely important issues but Trump agrees with Bernie.

These are not my two main issues. They are important, but not exclusive. So no, Trump does nothing for me.

Plus Trump has no intention of any kind to stop rigged deals. None. This is obvious.

So I hope Bernie goes balls to the walls as long as he can until Hillary gets it. There is nothing to lose

What he loses is the people who started out supporting him when he was a builder working with a team. Now that he wants to just burn down the house by himself lone wolf, he's not very desirable.

as far as I'm concerned because if Bernie still loses, maybe Trump will hopefully win.

I feel you are completely wrong in your opinion that Trump will do anything good that Bernie wants.
I think Bernie agrees with me, according to his own words.

"What I did not want to do is run as a third party candidate, take votes away from the Democratic candidate and help elect some right-wing Republican. I did not want responsibility for that. So what I said at the beginning of the campaign is that I was not going to run as an independent. And I say it now, that if I do not win this process I will not run as an independent."

Tearing down the dem party will violate this earlier stance.

 

[Rhea]

I for one don't want him to stop talking.

See, this is the lunacy that frustrates me. No one said this. Keep talking, just STOP BEING A JERK. Keep talking about income equality. Stop talking about rigged elections. Keep talking about universal health care. Stop talking about "not qualified to be president". Keep talking about minimum wage, stop talking about corrupt elites.

He's become a "God Hates Fags" style preacher, and I'm mad because I wanted these changes and he's losing his clout by being a whiner and a bully.

 

[untermensche]

I for one don't want him to stop talking.

See, this is the lunacy that frustrates me. No one said this. Keep talking, just STOP BEING A JERK. Keep talking about income equality. Stop talking about rigged elections. Keep talking about universal health care. Stop talking about "not qualified to be president". Keep talking about minimum wage, stop talking about corrupt elites.

He's become a "God Hates Fags" style preacher, and I'm mad because I wanted these changes and he's losing his clout by being a whiner and a bully.

Stop talking about income inequality and a rigged political system?


Are you mad?

 

[SimpleDon]

Thirty five years into the disastrous consequences that neoliberal policies have inflicted on this country is none too early for the left to try to cobble together a populist platform of what an alternative set of policies would be if they were in control.

All that we have gotten from them in that time has been a collection of postmodernism, cultural relativism, identity politics, pseudo-intellectualism and warmed over racial outrage. It is hard to get someone's vote if all that you are doing is laughing at them.

The Republicans denigrate the people who support them at those people's economic disadvantage, but they do it in private, in public they stay on message and keep fanning the outrage at the economic outcomes that the Republican policies have caused; the erosion of the middle class, the stagnation of wages for most, the loss of jobs to globalization, financial sector instability and the high income and wealth inequality.

 

[RavenSky]

To what purpose?

To effect long term and permanent change.

With Trump in office and a hard right USSC? That would be a long term and permanent change alright...

 

[untermensche]

To effect long term and permanent change.

With Trump in office and a hard right USSC? That would be a long term and permanent change alright...

You have to connect the dots.

How does Bernie talking about real problems in this nation put Trump in office?

There is no connection.

 

[RVonse]

..... stop talking about corrupt elites.

With all due respect, you can not hope to have any kind of functioning government with corrupt elites. Go no further than ancient Rome to see how your corrupt elites brought it all down. Obviously, I get it that Hillary is close to your heart with some small issues you feel are important. And I would not want to take that away. But the fact of matter is that Hillary is an utterly corrupt elite and there is just no way around that fact. She is rotten to the core.

Its just too bad Elizabeth Warren did not want the job because she is both a good person and shares your values. It would have been very easy to vote for her.

 

[RavenSky]

With Trump in office and a hard right USSC? That would be a long term and permanent change alright...

You have to connect the dots.

How does Bernie talking about real problems in this nation put Trump in office?

There is no connection.

No... you need to connect the dots.

No one has suggested Bernie should stop talking; but I agree with Rhea that Bernie has broken his promise and has gone negative. He needs to stop that.

If he doesn't, he will be helping to put Trump in office.

 

[untermensche]

You have to connect the dots.

How does Bernie talking about real problems in this nation put Trump in office?

There is no connection.

No... you need to connect the dots.

No one has suggested Bernie should stop talking; but I agree with Rhea that Bernie has broken his promise and has gone negative. He needs to stop that.

My my.

So Bernie talking about real problems won't help Trump.

But he should stop doing it.

You're tired of hearing how corrupt our political system is. You don't care.

 

[SimpleDon]

Because the important platforms for Bernie is to get rid of the rigged trade deals and reign in the banksters. Hillary is directly opposed to Bernie on both these extremely important issues but Trump agrees with Bernie. So this makes it very complicated for the middle class who by in large could care less about all of the little crap differences between democrats and republicans.

So I hope Bernie goes balls to the walls as long as he can until Hillary gets it. There is nothing to lose as far as I'm concerned because if Bernie still loses, maybe Trump will hopefully win.

Trump has succeeded so far because he has tapped into the largely blind rage that people feel toward their economic situation. People don't realize that their diminished wages and diminished prospects are largely the result of the economic policies of the Republicans. Policies meant solely to increase the incomes and the wealth of the already rich, the financial sponsors of the Republican party.

Trump largely blundered into these positions because he used logic and because he didn't have to crawl to the wealthy to get campaign funds for the primaries, owing in large part to his ability to manipulate the media for free coverage as well as his own wealth.

But he is going to need these contributions for a general election campaign (and to payback the loans with which he financed the primary campaign.) Therefore we are already seeing and can expect that he increasingly will be forced to toe the proven Republican party line. In October he already went back on his pledge to raise taxes on the wealthy by proposing to cut the taxes of the wealthy by more than any of the other Republican candidates to forestall an anti-Trump advertising blitz.