Two Somali "refugees" arrested for trying to join ISIS

[Derec]

Observation: They weren't ISIS supporters when they came here. They were recruited here. The problem is our own Islamists, not the refugees.

The thing is that these Somali "refugees" are much more likely to get radicalized than
That's because fundamentalist Islam is very common in Somalia. They were likely radicalized by somebody in their own community (Somali), either locally, or online.

Before ISIS it was Al Shabab, but this has been going on for a while among Somali "refugee" community.
The Somali-Minneapolis Terrorist Axis

 

[Toni]

Observation: They weren't ISIS supporters when they came here. They were recruited here. The problem is our own Islamists, not the refugees.

The thing is that these Somali "refugees" are much more likely to get radicalized than
That's because fundamentalist Islam is very common in Somalia. They were likely radicalized by somebody in their own community (Somali), either locally, or online.

Before ISIS it was Al Shabab, but this has been going on for a while among Somali "refugee" community.
The Somali-Minneapolis Terrorist Axis

Oh, Derec —you really know nothing at all about Minnesota or the Somalian diaspora there.

I would think that as a first generation American, you might have some sympathy for immigrants. It’s much harder for immigrants that come to the US when they are a different color and different religion. Minnesota has a reputation for being nice and liberal but really, the region is rather provencial and not that accepting beyond the casual ‘good neighbor’ but at a distance thing. Sure, they like to think of themselves as being good and decent and they mostly are but make no mistake: Somalis are widely regarded as being less than. Add in adolescence, relative poverty surrounded by relative plenty, parents or family members or self bearing a lot of trauma and fear and then add in internet recruiters who are absolutely expert st manipulating vulnerable young people and bingo: recruits. Of which there are actually very few.

Just think: if the internet and social media had been as pervasive when you were a kid and recruitment had been as sophisticated as it is today, who knows what you might have done.

 

[Patooka]

Just think: if the internet and social media had been as pervasive when you were a kid and recruitment had been as sophisticated as it is today, who knows what you might have done.

I was finishing High School in the mid 90's, and the big trend at the time was owning a copy of either the anarchists cookbook or terrorists handbook. And I went to a Catholic school so yeah, pretty plausible doing something as stupid as that.

 

[barbos]

Observation: They weren't ISIS supporters when they came here. They were recruited here. The problem is our own Islamists, not the refugees.

It is almost certain that they were recruited over the internet by terrorists abroad.

The question that we need to ask is why were these individuals susceptible to such recruitment efforts? Few immigrants of any origin join terrorist groups. But some do. See Americans of Irish descent or immigrants from Ireland joining the IRA.

For that matter, see home grown white males who join organizations such as the Klan and Aryan Nation and other white nationalist groups. What is the difference, aside from the skin color?

Is there a relationship between such groups and individuals who do armed home invasions and kidnap young girls such as Jaimie Closs? Unfortunately that does not seem to be an isolated instance.

To me, all of these share some similarity.

I wonder if there is a shared root cause?

Of course there is a shared root cause. 1% of the people are at the bottom 1% in the head/brain department.

 

[Toni]

Observation: They weren't ISIS supporters when they came here. They were recruited here. The problem is our own Islamists, not the refugees.

It is almost certain that they were recruited over the internet by terrorists abroad.

The question that we need to ask is why were these individuals susceptible to such recruitment efforts? Few immigrants of any origin join terrorist groups. But some do. See Americans of Irish descent or immigrants from Ireland joining the IRA.

For that matter, see home grown white males who join organizations such as the Klan and Aryan Nation and other white nationalist groups. What is the difference, aside from the skin color?

Is there a relationship between such groups and individuals who do armed home invasions and kidnap young girls such as Jaimie Closs? Unfortunately that does not seem to be an isolated instance.

To me, all of these share some similarity.

I wonder if there is a shared root cause?

Of course there is a shared root cause. 1% of the people are at the bottom 1% in the head/brain department.

You seem to be suggesting that these individuals lack intellectual capacity. In fact, most, if not all of these attacks were well planned.

If you are suggesting that here is a demographic that seems susceptible to radicalization, then I would agree. For the most part, they are male and white but perhaps that is only because they are the ones more likely to be identified as vulnerable and so targeted. We’ve seen ‘brides’ for ISIS being recruited through some pretty sophisticated manipulation.

I’m not suggesting that the individuals who carry out these shootings and other acts of violence. They are. I’m suggesting that st least in terms of recruitment for extremist organizations, there’s a motivation at work here and it surely is tied to money and power. That’s a different issue to tackle.

In the meantime, we can start by removing assault rifles from public availability and establish and enforce gun regulation.

https://www.scarymommy.com/fuck-you...ad4xPK64wmgzgLxy1RiBLKTpt5imzrmvmk5jNOSFl4y-o

 

[Playball40]

Second: they still commit terrorist acts and join terrorist organizations at a lower rate than domestic racist pieces of shit.

1. They are racist pieces of shit.
2. [citation needed] that Somalis join terrorist groups less frequently than "domestic" people.

Btw, do you count, say, the Newburgh Four as "domestic racist pieces of shit" or do they have to be white and non-Muslim to warrant that description from you?

Shouldn't #2 be Somali "refugees" in the US?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I wonder if there is a shared root cause?

Of course there is a shared root cause. 1% of the people are at the bottom 1% in the head/brain department.

No, many of them aren't stupid. What they are is easily manipulated.

Take someone whose life is a failure for some reason. Keep blaming <hated enemy> for this situation. Some will fall for this and can be recruited as terrorists.

Actual wrongs have nothing to do with this.

 

[bilby]

I wonder if there is a shared root cause?

Of course there is a shared root cause. 1% of the people are at the bottom 1% in the head/brain department.

No, many of them aren't stupid. What they are is easily manipulated.

Take someone whose life is a failure for some reason. Keep blaming <hated enemy> for this situation. Some will fall for this and can be recruited as terrorists.

Actual wrongs have nothing to do with this.

Not just recruited as terrorists - life's losers are easily manipulated into all kinds of irrationality. Religion is one of the more common options (and it's a very short step from religion to terrorism).

 

[Elixir]

Not just recruited as terrorists - life's losers are easily manipulated into all kinds of irrationality.

Very true. The consistent downward pressure on the standard of living and quality of life for the "middle class American" for instance, made them feel more and more like losers over the last couple of decades, which is exactly what the Trump campaign leveraged into an ill-gotten political victory. It's a perfect plan for the perpetuation of the power of the rich ... until the masses hit bottom. America has a ways to go in that regard, but there are certainly those currently in power who would like to milk it all the way down.

 

[James Brown]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I just donated to a legal clinic that provides pro bono legal advice to Somalli immigrants.

 

[Jarhyn]

Second: they still commit terrorist acts and join terrorist organizations at a lower rate than domestic racist pieces of shit.

1. They are racist pieces of shit.
2. [citation needed] that Somalis join terrorist groups less frequently than "domestic" people.

Btw, do you count, say, the Newburgh Four as "domestic racist pieces of shit" or do they have to be white and non-Muslim to warrant that description from you?

Shouldn't #2 be Somali "refugees" in the US?

Well, to pull a "Derec", I think the evidence that Somalis join terrorist groups less frequently in the US than domestic people is pretty plain to see from a list of the last 10 terrorist events in the US:

El Paso: white nationalism
Poway: white nationalism
New Haven: white nationalism
Escondido: white nationalism
Pittsburgh: white nationalism
MAGA bomber: white nationalism
East Orange: Christian extremism
New York Rammer: Soviet on behalf of "ISIS"
Antioch: Sudanese on behalf of "black people"
Bloomington: white nationalism against Somalis

So uh, what was that about Somalis again?

 

[Derec]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I just donated to a legal clinic that provides pro bono legal advice to Somalli immigrants.

What the fuck for? To help Somalis who join ISIS to avoid long jailtime?

 

[Jarhyn]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I just donated to a legal clinic that provides pro bono legal advice to Somalli immigrants.

What the fuck for? To help Somalis who join ISIS to avoid long jailtime?

No, probably to avoid being persecuted by shitheels who judge Somalians as if they were more of a threat than white nationalists, which they are not.

People who join ISIS can go fuck themselves. I know, a white Russian joined ISIS, let's ban all immigration and travel from Russia!

 

[ZiprHead]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I just donated to a legal clinic that provides pro bono legal advice to Somalli immigrants.

What the fuck for? To help Somalis who join ISIS to avoid long jailtime?

No, probably to avoid being persecuted by shitheels who judge Somalians as if they were more of a threat than white nationalists, which they are not.

People who join ISIS can go fuck themselves. I know, a white Russian joined ISIS, let's ban all immigration and travel from Russia!

I think we should bar Germans from coming to the US because some of them join ISIS too.

German ISIS Fighter Lucas Glass

Maybe send the ones back that are already here. Can't take a chance, can we?

 

[southernhybrid]

https://theintercept.com/2018/12/24/isis-recruitment-us-terrorism/

ASK SOMEONE TO close their eyes and picture a typical homegrown, American recruit for the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. Chances are the image that springs to mind is of a brown-skinned person with an immigrant background, likely with ties to the Middle East, South Asia, or North Africa. That image of the average accused terrorist might be out of date, a new study published by the Rand Corporation suggests. In the study, “Trends in the Draw of Americans to Foreign Terrorist Organizations from 9/11 to Today,” which sought to explore why ISIS has relative successes recruiting in the U.S., researchers found that in recent years the most common demographic profile for an accused terrorist motivated by “radical Islam” has been a native-born American, either white or African-American.

People implicated in terrorism plots in the United States in recent years are more likely to have no pre-existing ties to Muslim-majority countries.

“The portrait that emerges from our analysis suggests that the historic stereotype of a Muslim, Arab, immigrant male as the most vulnerable to extremism is not representative of many terrorist recruits today,” the study notes. “Instead, recruits are more likely to be Caucasian/white or African American/black; they are more likely to be U.S. born; and they are more likely to have converted to Islam as part of their radicalization process.”

Experts say that these findings throw even more cold water on Trump’s argument that banning Muslim immigrants from the United States is helpful for national security.

You know what would be really helpful? It would be helpful if people would do more research before making claims based on a limited number of anecdotes. My link is just one of many that say the same thing, but certain people here seem to want to demonize certain minorities and/or immigrants, so they look for an example that supports their bias, then try to convince us that their example is widespread.

If you are honest and read more extensively with an open mind, you will realize that far right white nationalists are currently the biggest threat when it comes to terrorism. Does that mean that we should fear all rightest white males? Of course not. Not anymore than we should fear all immigrants from countries populated by people with darker skin or minority religious beliefs.

 

[Jarhyn]

https://theintercept.com/2018/12/24/isis-recruitment-us-terrorism/

ASK SOMEONE TO close their eyes and picture a typical homegrown, American recruit for the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. Chances are the image that springs to mind is of a brown-skinned person with an immigrant background, likely with ties to the Middle East, South Asia, or North Africa. That image of the average accused terrorist might be out of date, a new study published by the Rand Corporation suggests. In the study, “Trends in the Draw of Americans to Foreign Terrorist Organizations from 9/11 to Today,” which sought to explore why ISIS has relative successes recruiting in the U.S., researchers found that in recent years the most common demographic profile for an accused terrorist motivated by “radical Islam” has been a native-born American, either white or African-American.

People implicated in terrorism plots in the United States in recent years are more likely to have no pre-existing ties to Muslim-majority countries.

“The portrait that emerges from our analysis suggests that the historic stereotype of a Muslim, Arab, immigrant male as the most vulnerable to extremism is not representative of many terrorist recruits today,” the study notes. “Instead, recruits are more likely to be Caucasian/white or African American/black; they are more likely to be U.S. born; and they are more likely to have converted to Islam as part of their radicalization process.”

Experts say that these findings throw even more cold water on Trump’s argument that banning Muslim immigrants from the United States is helpful for national security.

You know what would be really helpful? It would be helpful if people would do more research before making claims based on a limited number of anecdotes. My link is just one of many that say the same thing, but certain people here seem to want to demonize certain minorities and/or immigrants, so they look for an example that supports their bias, then try to convince us that their example is widespread.

If you are honest and read more extensively with an open mind, you will realize that far right white nationalists are currently the biggest threat when it comes to terrorism. Does that mean that we should fear all rightest white males? Of course not. Not anymore than we should fear all immigrants from countries populated by people with darker skin or minority religious beliefs.

So, now that we have thoroughly beat the horse to death debunking Derec's claim minorith immigrants are an outsized terror threat, I wonder if he will accept that immigrants are not an outsized terror threat and commit to never making the claim that we should wholesale reject immigrants on the basis of terror threat in the future, and cease demanding evidence such as has been provided in the face of rejecting such claims?

For what it's worth I give him 72 hours before he pretends this never happened.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No, many of them aren't stupid. What they are is easily manipulated.

Take someone whose life is a failure for some reason. Keep blaming <hated enemy> for this situation. Some will fall for this and can be recruited as terrorists.

Actual wrongs have nothing to do with this.

Not just recruited as terrorists - life's losers are easily manipulated into all kinds of irrationality. Religion is one of the more common options (and it's a very short step from religion to terrorism).

I never said that was the only thing that could be done, just that that was the usual formula for recruiting a terrorist in the west.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

People who join ISIS can go fuck themselves. I know, a white Russian joined ISIS, let's ban all immigration and travel from Russia!

Ban mixed drinks!

And what's alcohol think it's doing joining an organization that doesn't tolerate alcohol???

 

[Derec]

MAGA bomber: white nationalism

White?

New York Rammer: Soviet on behalf of "ISIS"

"Soviet Union" has not existed for almost 30 years. The guy is not "Soviet", he is a Muslim from Uzbekistan ("they very nosy people with bone in their brain" according to the Kazhak national anthem).

Speaking of New York, we recently had a Bangladehshi Muslim Akayed Ullah trying to bomb the subway and Afghan Muslim Ahmad Khan Rahimi detonating bombs in NY and NJ. Notice a trend?

Bloomington: white nationalism against Somalis

Or how about the St. Cloud Mall attack by an 22 year old Somali Muslim refugee?

 

[Derec]

So, now that we have thoroughly beat the horse to death debunking Derec's claim minorith immigrants are an outsized terror threat,

Certain migrants are.

and commit to never making the claim that we should wholesale reject immigrants

Easy, I never said anything about wholesale rejection. Just better vetting of immigrants, esp. where radical Islam is common, and easier deportation for migrants who commit serious crimes and/or become radicalized.