Veep Bets

[Toni]

OFFS, no Warren! It is bad enough the main candidate is older than a Boomer! We don't need a Boomer on the ticket for any balance. While Warren excites some demographics, I don't think it is enough. But I've been disappointed with most things in 2020, so it'll likely be Warren.

Who are you trying to excite? The old centrist people who already went for Biden? I don't understand your reasoning at all.

I promise you that it won't be Warren. I have some insider info that Warren and Biden don't like each other personally. Warren isn't on the bus.

Of course she’s not.

 

[Toni]

Well, it's always been shocking to me, but a majority of white women voted for Trump in 2016.

I honestly do not believe that.

I agree with you, extremely hard to believe. But according to Pew, 47% of white women voted for Trump; 45% voted for HRC:

https://www.people-press.org/2018/0...he-2016-electorate-based-on-validated-voters/

According to the polls, Hillary was going to win by a landslide.

 

[J842P]

I agree with you, extremely hard to believe. But according to Pew, 47% of white women voted for Trump; 45% voted for HRC:

https://www.people-press.org/2018/0...he-2016-electorate-based-on-validated-voters/

According to the polls, Hillary was going to win by a landslide.

The polling at a national level was pretty accurate. Hillary won the popular vote by significant margins. The loss came down to a few counties in the Rust Belt, the "Blue Wall".

 

[J842P]

The post said no boomer. It specifically mentioned Warren who has the temerity to be over 45 but both Harris and Klobuchar are boomers. No objection to the pre-boomer white guys running.

Of course I understand the practical reasons to shy away from having an older VP. I’ve expressed concerns about the ages of Biden, Sanders and Warren—and pointed out that Warren is significantly younger than Trump, Biden or Sanders and without any of their histories of medical problems or cognitive decline. She’s whip smart, dedicated and hard working—and I think that’s the issue. She’s smart and does her homework. I know how well that plays in real life.

I cannot shake the feeling that in the end, the Dems will figure out that really they need Buttigieg so that they can check off their progressive box without having to do anything so radical as electing a woman.

Nominating Buttigieg as an appeal to the progressive wing would be dumb. Warren would be the best for that.

Warren still can't decide who to support for the nomination!

Sure, I'm just saying, if you want something to woo the progressive wing, that would be it, not Buttigieg.

 

[J842P]

The post said no boomer. It specifically mentioned Warren who has the temerity to be over 45 but both Harris and Klobuchar are boomers. No objection to the pre-boomer white guys running.

Of course I understand the practical reasons to shy away from having an older VP. I’ve expressed concerns about the ages of Biden, Sanders and Warren—and pointed out that Warren is significantly younger than Trump, Biden or Sanders and without any of their histories of medical problems or cognitive decline. She’s whip smart, dedicated and hard working—and I think that’s the issue. She’s smart and does her homework. I know how well that plays in real life.

I cannot shake the feeling that in the end, the Dems will figure out that really they need Buttigieg so that they can check off their progressive box without having to do anything so radical as electing a woman.

Nominating Buttigieg as an appeal to the progressive wing would be dumb. Warren would be the best for that.

Of course Warren is much more progressive.

You aren’t getting what I was trying to say. A lot of people like to think of themselves as progressive. It doesn’t stop them
from having some not very progressive and usually unacknowledged attitudes. A candidate like Buttigieg would allow certain people to support Buttigieg because he is a gay man (regardless and for some, unconsciously because he is centrist) while still supporting him as a gay man—and thereby allowing them to hide their unacknowledhed misogyny (someday there will be a woman perfect enough to suppport but surely not any of these very well qualified, intelligent, articulate, accomplished women we have before us! Too old/too boring/not trustworthy because she had sex with a guy once).

I get it. People like to think well of themselves. I’ve just listened to a lot of smart, well informed men make all sorts of apologies for some pretty mediocre white men—and even make fun of less than savory aspects of their past/present—and then become positively eloquent about some minor or imagined fault in female candidates that they would praise in a man.

Honestly I understand the stakes in this election fully as well as anyone on this board. I understand the practicality , the reasons that an old white guy is the ‘safe’ choice. Those reasons are exactly the racism and misogyny that allow them to think of Biden as the safe bet. I honestly get it. I accept that I will never see a woman as POTUS—and I’m not even Medicare eligible!

I just wish people had more courage.

I think you are tilting at windmills. Hillary Clinton almost got it, indeed, the loss was really a fluke in many ways. And she was one of the most unpopular people ever to run. So, a popular woman would have an even better change, but it depends on a lot of factors.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Of course Warren is much more progressive.

You aren’t getting what I was trying to say. A lot of people like to think of themselves as progressive. It doesn’t stop them
from having some not very progressive and usually unacknowledged attitudes. A candidate like Buttigieg would allow certain people to support Buttigieg because he is a gay man (regardless and for some, unconsciously because he is centrist) while still supporting him as a gay man—and thereby allowing them to hide their unacknowledhed misogyny (someday there will be a woman perfect enough to suppport but surely not any of these very well qualified, intelligent, articulate, accomplished women we have before us! Too old/too boring/not trustworthy because she had sex with a guy once).

I get it. People like to think well of themselves. I’ve just listened to a lot of smart, well informed men make all sorts of apologies for some pretty mediocre white men—and even make fun of less than savory aspects of their past/present—and then become positively eloquent about some minor or imagined fault in female candidates that they would praise in a man.

Honestly I understand the stakes in this election fully as well as anyone on this board. I understand the practicality , the reasons that an old white guy is the ‘safe’ choice. Those reasons are exactly the racism and misogyny that allow them to think of Biden as the safe bet. I honestly get it. I accept that I will never see a woman as POTUS—and I’m not even Medicare eligible!

I just wish people had more courage.

I think you are tilting at windmills. Hillary Clinton almost got it, indeed, the loss was really a fluke in many ways. And she was one of the most unpopular people ever to run. So, a popular woman would have an even better change, but it depends on a lot of factors.

Yea, I really don't think that Warren not winning in 2020 means that a woman can't win. In fact, the mostly likely two major candidates in 2024 will be Haley Barbour for the Repbublicans and either Kloubouchur or Harris for the Dems.

 

[Toni]

Of course Warren is much more progressive.

You aren’t getting what I was trying to say. A lot of people like to think of themselves as progressive. It doesn’t stop them
from having some not very progressive and usually unacknowledged attitudes. A candidate like Buttigieg would allow certain people to support Buttigieg because he is a gay man (regardless and for some, unconsciously because he is centrist) while still supporting him as a gay man—and thereby allowing them to hide their unacknowledhed misogyny (someday there will be a woman perfect enough to suppport but surely not any of these very well qualified, intelligent, articulate, accomplished women we have before us! Too old/too boring/not trustworthy because she had sex with a guy once).

I get it. People like to think well of themselves. I’ve just listened to a lot of smart, well informed men make all sorts of apologies for some pretty mediocre white men—and even make fun of less than savory aspects of their past/present—and then become positively eloquent about some minor or imagined fault in female candidates that they would praise in a man.

Honestly I understand the stakes in this election fully as well as anyone on this board. I understand the practicality , the reasons that an old white guy is the ‘safe’ choice. Those reasons are exactly the racism and misogyny that allow them to think of Biden as the safe bet. I honestly get it. I accept that I will never see a woman as POTUS—and I’m not even Medicare eligible!

I just wish people had more courage.

I think you are tilting at windmills. Hillary Clinton almost got it, indeed, the loss was really a fluke in many ways. And she was one of the most unpopular people ever to run. So, a popular woman would have an even better change, but it depends on a lot of factors.

To much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all to see life as it is and not as it should be.

Warren is absolutely adored by almost every woman I know. Men? They find her too school marmish. Every progressive man I know--and that's about half of my crowd, btw, bemoaned Bernie Sanders' age and the lack of another progressive candidate--while skipping right over Warren, who was dismissed as being too...school marmish. Rapey guy is ok. But to be a schol marm? No way, man!

All of this reality is definitely fucked up.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Warren is absolutely adored by almost every woman I know. Men? They find her too school marmish. Every progressive man I know--and that's about half of my crowd, btw, bemoaned Bernie Sanders' age and the lack of another progressive candidate--while skipping right over Warren, who was dismissed as being too...school marmish.

But I still don't see Warren remotely as a progressive. I never have and her gender is irrelevant to me.

Rapey guy is ok. But to be a schol marm? No way, man!

All of this reality is definitely fucked up.

Biden being the candidate is fucked up. Of Biden, Warren, and Sanders, Warren was the only feasible of the three, but I still didn't (have never understood her prog cred). That these were the three main contenders in the end is bonkers. Harris, Booker, Bennett, Klobuchar all presented viable younger candidacies. Sadly, none of them are progressive, but I have pretty much given up on a progressive candidate for a while. A Klobuchar - Warren ticket could have worked, but Biden - Warren just isn't balance at all.

 

[Worldtraveller]

Warren is absolutely adored by almost every woman I know. Men? They find her too school marmish. Every progressive man I know--and that's about half of my crowd, btw, bemoaned Bernie Sanders' age and the lack of another progressive candidate--while skipping right over Warren, who was dismissed as being too...school marmish.

But I still don't see Warren remotely as a progressive. I never have and her gender is irrelevant to me.

Rapey guy is ok. But to be a schol marm? No way, man!

All of this reality is definitely fucked up.

Biden being the candidate is fucked up. Of Biden, Warren, and Sanders, Warren was the only feasible of the three, but I still didn't (have never understood her prog cred). That these were the three main contenders in the end is bonkers. Harris, Booker, Bennett, Klobuchar all presented viable younger candidacies. Sadly, none of them are progressive, but I have pretty much given up on a progressive candidate for a while. A Klobuchar - Warren ticket could have worked, but Biden - Warren just isn't balance at all.

I agree with this. I think we'll see a moderate/centrist woman president long before we see an actual progressive in the US.

TBF, some of the moderates have a slight leaning or policy that is progressive, but none of them have an overall progressive bent (that I know of).

 

[ZiprHead]

Who's who:

11. Susan Rice - "She served on the National Security Council and in a high-ranking State Department role in the Clinton administration, and she was United Nations ambassador and national security adviser in the Obama administration."

Susan Rice is one I had not considered before. I think she'd be a great pick. Very smart, not too old, still an outspoken critic of the present administration, and doesn't remove an already sitting senator.

I still think Biden will go for either Klobuchar or Harris.

 

[Trausti]

Who's who:

11. Susan Rice - "She served on the National Security Council and in a high-ranking State Department role in the Clinton administration, and she was United Nations ambassador and national security adviser in the Obama administration."

Susan Rice is one I had not considered before. I think she'd be a great pick. Very smart, not too old, still an outspoken critic of the present administration, and doesn't remove an already sitting senator.

I still think Biden will go for either Klobuchar or Harris.

Susan Rice’s son is an avid Trump supporter. Ain’t gonna happen.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Who's who:

11. Susan Rice - "She served on the National Security Council and in a high-ranking State Department role in the Clinton administration, and she was United Nations ambassador and national security adviser in the Obama administration."

Susan Rice is one I had not considered before. I think she'd be a great pick. Very smart, not too old, still an outspoken critic of the present administration, and doesn't remove an already sitting senator.

Someone who withdrew from consideration for Sec. of State because of the Benghazi aftermath? Not likely.

 

[ZiprHead]

Who's who:

11. Susan Rice - "She served on the National Security Council and in a high-ranking State Department role in the Clinton administration, and she was United Nations ambassador and national security adviser in the Obama administration."

Susan Rice is one I had not considered before. I think she'd be a great pick. Very smart, not too old, still an outspoken critic of the present administration, and doesn't remove an already sitting senator.

I still think Biden will go for either Klobuchar or Harris.

Susan Rice’s son is an avid Trump supporter. Ain’t gonna happen.

Who gives a crap about her crotchfruit?

 

[southernhybrid]

I agree with this NYTimes editorial.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/opinion/joe-biden-running-mate-stacey-abrams.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

Of the people most often mentioned as being on the vice-presidential short list, Stacey Abrams of Georgia, Senator Kamala Harris of California, Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, Gov. Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan, Senator Catherine Cortez Masto of Nevada and Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts have all run in statewide elections in which exit polls were conducted. That data offers the chance for an apples-to-apples comparison of relative electoral strength with the key demographic groups needed to strengthen the Democratic ticket.

A close examination of the electoral track records of the possible partners shows that Ms. Abrams best offers what Mr. Biden most needs. In terms of success with young people, Barack Obama’s political popularity is unquestioned, and therefore his support levels among that demographic offer a valuable measuring stick. Of the potential nominees, only Ms. Abrams outperformed Mr. Obama in her state, winning the 18-to-29-year-old vote in Georgia by nearly 30 points; Mr. Obama lost that group by three points. Only Senator Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin, another common name on potential V.P. lists, equaled Mr. Obama’s performance with young voters in her state. The other contenders for whom there is data underperformed Mr. Obama in their most recent competitive race by significant margins.

The available data on popularity among Latinos is more limited, but in the states that do offer such information — Georgia, California, Michigan and Nevada — Ms. Abrams secured the most Latino support, garnering 62 percent of her state’s Latino vote in 2018. Ms. Cortez Masto, who is herself Latina, was also very strong with that demographic.

It is in the realm of African-American voter enthusiasm that Ms. Abrams is without peer. Not only did she win 93 percent of the black vote in her race for governor — a higher percentage than any of the other potential vice-presidential picks won in their statewide races — but few candidates (if any) in the history of this country have increased black turnout in a statewide election to the extent that Ms. Abrams did in 2018. Black voter turnout jumped 40 percent in Georgia in 2018, an astounding level of strength that not only can bring the Midwestern states back into the Democratic fold but also has the potential to expand the map of competitive states to Georgia, North Carolina, Florida and Texas.

Among the other contenders, a recent poll (by Data for Progress for the group Way to Win) found that Ms. Harris ran a close second to Ms. Abrams in terms of support among African-Amer

Yes, I know some of you don't think that she has enough experience, but I personally find that her intelligence, natural born leadership style and charisma is exactly what we need. She is what I like to refer to as a pragmatic progressive. She supports progressive goals, but she realizes that to get anything done, you much compromise and she had the respect of both Democrats and Republicans when she held the minority leadership role in the Georgia House. When she ran for governor in Georgia, her appeal was unlike anything I've ever seen. The rally I attended was full of both black and white, young and old, male and female enthusiastic supporters. I live in a small city of around 25,000 people, but no town was too small or too unimportant for Stacey to visit when she ran for governor.

And seriously, who else has the motivation and talent to work their way though law school by writing numerous novels? I've never known another politician as bright, organized, and appealing as Stacey. And, if she isn't the pick, I hope she will make another run for governor of Georgia. We sure could have used her during this pandemic.

So, you don't have to agree with me, but please spare me the same old nonsense that she doesn't have enough experience. We have a totally inexperienced reality tv host, who acts like a mentally deranged idiot who is now president. His side kick is lack luster lackey conservative Christian who probably has wet dreams of instituting a theocracy.

OF course, I will support which ever woman Biden chooses to run with him, but I do think that Stacey would be one of the best choices that Biden could make.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Abrams definitely carries a good deal of water. And the above doesn't discuss the potential vulnerabilities that the existing Georgian Senators managed to get themselves into. This greatly strengthens the Abrams argument.

It can not be dismissed, she has no national footprint for experience. Yes, the existing President was less qualified to be President than Kim Kardashian, and he is still our President, but we can't let Trump lower the bar in America to what should be expected. I think it is a shame Abrams isn't going for the Senate because that'd be a good logical stepping stone for the VP spot under a man old enough to remember when matter and anti-matter coexisted briefly in our universe.

Abrams only fault is that national level experience. Obama didn't get put on the Kerry ticket. Obama was definitely on the 'running for President bus', but he ran for Senate, got elected, then became President. Abrams is skipping a step here. And this isn't an unreasonable observation. Sen. Harris fits the mold for experience better. But Harris's selection would be to increase turnout, there would be no EVs directly gained from her, nor would Senator seats become as available as if Abrams got the nod.

 

[Toni]

If I am not mistaken, Biden has stated that he would not run for re-election, which is a plus, given his age. I think that any VP candidate should be given more than usual scrutiny as potential POTUS. It should be presumed that Biden’s VP
would run as POTUS and would need to be ready to go as POTUS at a seconds notice any time in the next 4 years.

I don’t write this with any degree of pleasure. For the most part, the allegations against Biden seem relatively trivial —with the exception of the allegation by Tara Reade. Reading her account of the alleged incident, it seems improbable that events happened as she described. But I would never have believed Bill Cosby to be capable of the crimes for which he was convicted, either. I don’t think that we can completely discount Tara Reade’s account although it seem improbable. Against any opponent than Trump, it would be devastating. But Trump has so many very credible accusations against him, each made so much more credible by Trump’s own well focumenyrd behavior and recorded words that a thinking voter would not be bothered so much by Biden. Key word: thinking. Reality is that while republican candy dates like to profess their religiousity, their morality and their family values, their many infidelities become absolute non-issues. Tara Reade will hurt Biden more than any accusation against Trump.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If I am not mistaken, Biden has stated that he would not run for re-election, which is a plus, given his age. I think that any VP candidate should be given more than usual scrutiny as potential POTUS. It should be presumed that Biden’s VP
would run as POTUS and would need to be ready to go as POTUS at a seconds notice any time in the next 4 years.

I don’t write this with any degree of pleasure. For the most part, the allegations against Biden seem relatively trivial —with the exception of the allegation by Tara Reade. Reading her account of the alleged incident, it seems improbable that events happened as she described. But I would never have believed Bill Cosby to be capable of the crimes for which he was convicted, either. I don’t think that we can completely discount Tara Reade’s account although it seem improbable. Against any opponent than Trump, it would be devastating. But Trump has so many very credible accusations against him, each made so much more credible by Trump’s own well focumenyrd behavior and recorded words that a thinking voter would not be bothered so much by Biden. Key word: thinking. Reality is that while republican candy dates like to profess their religiousity, their morality and their family values, their many infidelities become absolute non-issues. Tara Reade will hurt Biden more than any accusation against Trump.

There is so much time between now and the election, who knows what will happen with Covid-19. Trump has plenty of time to get more people killed.

 

[prideandfall]

is joe lieberman still alive? that seems like the absolute perfect candidate for this campaign - i bet biden would love to have him as a running mate.

short of that, i dunno... i'd guess tim kaine. that seems like something that would seem like a good idea to him.

 

[J842P]

I agree with this NYTimes editorial.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/opinion/joe-biden-running-mate-stacey-abrams.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

Of the people most often mentioned as being on the vice-presidential short list, Stacey Abrams of Georgia, Senator Kamala Harris of California, Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, Gov. Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan, Senator Catherine Cortez Masto of Nevada and Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts have all run in statewide elections in which exit polls were conducted. That data offers the chance for an apples-to-apples comparison of relative electoral strength with the key demographic groups needed to strengthen the Democratic ticket.

A close examination of the electoral track records of the possible partners shows that Ms. Abrams best offers what Mr. Biden most needs. In terms of success with young people, Barack Obama’s political popularity is unquestioned, and therefore his support levels among that demographic offer a valuable measuring stick. Of the potential nominees, only Ms. Abrams outperformed Mr. Obama in her state, winning the 18-to-29-year-old vote in Georgia by nearly 30 points; Mr. Obama lost that group by three points. Only Senator Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin, another common name on potential V.P. lists, equaled Mr. Obama’s performance with young voters in her state. The other contenders for whom there is data underperformed Mr. Obama in their most recent competitive race by significant margins.

The available data on popularity among Latinos is more limited, but in the states that do offer such information — Georgia, California, Michigan and Nevada — Ms. Abrams secured the most Latino support, garnering 62 percent of her state’s Latino vote in 2018. Ms. Cortez Masto, who is herself Latina, was also very strong with that demographic.

It is in the realm of African-American voter enthusiasm that Ms. Abrams is without peer. Not only did she win 93 percent of the black vote in her race for governor — a higher percentage than any of the other potential vice-presidential picks won in their statewide races — but few candidates (if any) in the history of this country have increased black turnout in a statewide election to the extent that Ms. Abrams did in 2018. Black voter turnout jumped 40 percent in Georgia in 2018, an astounding level of strength that not only can bring the Midwestern states back into the Democratic fold but also has the potential to expand the map of competitive states to Georgia, North Carolina, Florida and Texas.

Among the other contenders, a recent poll (by Data for Progress for the group Way to Win) found that Ms. Harris ran a close second to Ms. Abrams in terms of support among African-Amer

Yes, I know some of you don't think that she has enough experience, but I personally find that her intelligence, natural born leadership style and charisma is exactly what we need. She is what I like to refer to as a pragmatic progressive. She supports progressive goals, but she realizes that to get anything done, you much compromise and she had the respect of both Democrats and Republicans when she held the minority leadership role in the Georgia House. When she ran for governor in Georgia, her appeal was unlike anything I've ever seen. The rally I attended was full of both black and white, young and old, male and female enthusiastic supporters. I live in a small city of around 25,000 people, but no town was too small or too unimportant for Stacey to visit when she ran for governor.

And seriously, who else has the motivation and talent to work their way though law school by writing numerous novels? I've never known another politician as bright, organized, and appealing as Stacey. And, if she isn't the pick, I hope she will make another run for governor of Georgia. We sure could have used her during this pandemic.

So, you don't have to agree with me, but please spare me the same old nonsense that she doesn't have enough experience. We have a totally inexperienced reality tv host, who acts like a mentally deranged idiot who is now president. His side kick is lack luster lackey conservative Christian who probably has wet dreams of instituting a theocracy.

OF course, I will support which ever woman Biden chooses to run with him, but I do think that Stacey would be one of the best choices that Biden could make.

I think Abrams would be good, and at the risk of counting my chickens before they hatch, she could run for re-election after Biden.

I've never bought the experience argument. Competence is the most important factor, not experience in government per se[I/], since a competent person would surround themselves with the sorts of people who would fill in any gaps.

 

[J842P]

is joe lieberman still alive? that seems like the absolute perfect candidate for this campaign - i bet biden would love to have him as a running mate.

short of that, i dunno... i'd guess tim kaine. that seems like something that would seem like a good idea to him.

Hell, he should just ask Jeb!