Veep Bets

[Rhea]

This is not the place to head into discussions that are no longer about the possible candidates for VEEP. Please return to topic.

 

[Toni]

The point is that you cannot think of dozens of better ones. Or you aren't willing to share your thoughts on who this 'they' are. Which really is a shame. I'm genuinely interested in your opinion.

You are missing my point. My point is that Abrams is not very well qualified, not about coming up with any particular list.
There are well more than a dozen female Democratic governors and US senators. Vast majority of them would be better than former state representative Abrams. So would many in the House, for example Val Demings.
And yet Abrams keeps getting pushed by different op eds. I guess she is the new shiny thing to grab their attention.

I accept your apology for misspeaking. It appears that you cannot think of another woman who you would find qualified to be VP. Which is what I thought.

 

[Derec]

I accept your apology for misspeaking. It appears that you cannot think of another woman who you would find qualified to be VP. Which is what I thought.

No apologies, and no, I did not misspeak. You misconstrued what I was writing. I was specifically talking about how unsuitable Abrams was for Veep position. I did not, at that time, offer any opinion about who would be a good choice, as that was extraneous to the point I was making. However, I DID offer an opinion on that question elsewhere. To reiterate briefly, I think Kamala Harris would be very well qualified for Veep and I think Biden is most likely to pick her.

What do you think about veepstakes?

 

[Elixir]

I think Kamala Harris would be very well qualified for Veep and I think Biden is most likely to pick her.

What do you think about veepstakes?

I agree with the first part, and think she'd make a fine President. Not sure Biden will pick her though. There are a lot of people out there who are better than Trump, including virtually everyone I have ever met. Whether there is some political expediency dictating Joe's choice or if he simply wants to pick someone who can take over when he 25s himself, I don't know. So any guess would be just that - a guess.

 

[Toni]

I accept your apology for misspeaking. It appears that you cannot think of another woman who you would find qualified to be VP. Which is what I thought.

No apologies, and no, I did not misspeak. You misconstrued what I was writing. I was specifically talking about how unsuitable Abrams was for Veep position. I did not, at that time, offer any opinion about who would be a good choice, as that was extraneous to the point I was making. However, I DID offer an opinion on that question elsewhere. To reiterate briefly, I think Kamala Harris would be very well qualified for Veep and I think Biden is most likely to pick her.

What do you think about veepstakes?

I think Harris would be a good choice in terms of competence and I believe, compatible with Biden. Would she bring enough from a geographical POV? Maybe not.

I like Warren because she’s solidly progressive, extremely intelligent and hard working and frankly very practical when it comes down to it. She’s also older although in apparent far better health than Biden or Trump. She has evolved as a person and a politician and has demonstrated that she can learn and grow and respond when presented with actual data and how data affects people. I find that to be extremely powerful. But she let herself be trolled by the troll in chief. I think that was a mistake and betrayed a weakness I did not expect. Geographically she brings nothing. She’s another easy coaster with some midwestern roots. Speaking of which: she and Biden both bring a sense of actual real people who have faced hard times and truly understand the real struggles of average people. I find that compelling. She was and remains my first choice as POTUS. She will not get the nod.

Abrams is charismatic and Biden’s campaign could use that. She’s very smart, hard working. She related well to other people. I like her, too.

My phone battery is almost gone so that’s as far as I’m going now.

For the record, you said you could think of dozens of female candidates better than Abrams. I was surprised you would consider any female candidate so I asked your opinion. Quite sincerely.

 

[lpetrich]

Ticket balancing has been a long tradition of Presidential candidates.

• 2016: Trump NY Pence IN - HClinton NY Kaine VA
• 2012: Obama IL Biden DE - Romney MA Ryan WI
• 2008: Obama IL Biden DE - McCain AZ Palin WA
• 2004: BushII TX Cheney WY - Kerry MA Edwards NC
• 2000: BushII TX Cheney WY - Gore TN Lieberman CT
• 1996: BClinton AR Gore TN - Dole KS Kemp NY
• 1992: BClinton AR Gore TN - BushI TX Quayle IN
• 1988: BushI TX Quayle IN - Dukakis MA Bentsen TX
• 1984: Reagan CA BushI TX - Mondale MN Ferraro NY
• 1980: Reagan CA BushI TX - Carter GA Mondale MN
• 1976: Carter GA Mondale MN - Ford MN Dole KS
• 1972: Nixon CA Agnew MD - McGovern SD Shriver MD
• 1968: Nixon CA Agnew MD - Humphrey MN Muskie ME
• 1964: Johnson TX Humphrey MN - Goldwater AZ Miller NY
• 1960: Kennedy MA Johnson TX - Nixon CA Lodge MA
• 1956: Eisenhower NY Nixon CA - Stevenson IL Kefauver TN
• 1952: Eisenhower NY Nixon CA - Stevenson IL Sparkman AL
• 1948: Truman MO Barkley KY - Dewey NY Warren CA
• 1944: Roosevelt NY Truman MO - Dewey NY Bricker OH
• 1940: Roosevelt NY Wallace IA - Willkie IN McNary OR
• 1936: Roosevelt NY Garner TX - Landon KS Knox IL
• 1932: Roosevelt NY Garner TX - Hoover IA Curtis KS
• 1928: Hoover IA Curtis KS - Smith NY Robinson AR

 

[southernhybrid]

I accept your apology for misspeaking. It appears that you cannot think of another woman who you would find qualified to be VP. Which is what I thought.

No apologies, and no, I did not misspeak. You misconstrued what I was writing. I was specifically talking about how unsuitable Abrams was for Veep position. I did not, at that time, offer any opinion about who would be a good choice, as that was extraneous to the point I was making. However, I DID offer an opinion on that question elsewhere. To reiterate briefly, I think Kamala Harris would be very well qualified for Veep and I think Biden is most likely to pick her.

What do you think about veepstakes?

Well that is your opinion. I have no problems either of those two women. Abrams have ten full years of leadership experience, as the minority leader in the Georgia House. As you well know, Georgia is a large and very diverse state, so I consider her experience as enough to qualify for the position of VP. Abrams is a strong leader. From what I know about her, she seems to be a person with natural leadership ability. But, it's up to Biden to choose his running mate. I just personally believe that Abrams is more than up to the job.

Harris has leadership experience as the AG of California. She's only been in the Senate for three years. I don't see how Abrams experience is inferior to that of Harris. But, that is of course, my opinion. Both women are well qualified.

And since you mentioned governors, being a governor doesn't mean you are an effective leader. Pence! My son lives in Indiana and from what I know about Pence, he was a terrible governor. It should be quite obvious just by looking at what an awful, ineffective VP he is. Having experience in a particular role doesn't make you a good leader.

I like Warren, but I'd prefer a minority woman to run as VP. I'd also prefer a much younger woman to run, since Warren is or will turn 71 this year. I'm not sure that two candidates in their 70s is best. Of course, that is just my opinion and I will fully support whoever he chooses to be his running mate. I'd just prefer someone younger and more pragmatic than Warren.

 

[lpetrich]

Since Joe Biden is from Delaware, then by geographical ticket balancing, we should use someone from somewhere outside the Northeast. For race and gender balancing, he should choose a nonwhite woman. From suggested candidates and former Presidential candidates, this gives us:

• Stacey Abrams
• Kamala Harris
• Tulsi Gabbard

Expanding to officially white women, this gives us

• Elizabeth Warren
• Marianne Williamson

 

[lpetrich]

The first female VP nominee of a major political party was  Geraldine Ferraro, Walter Mondale's running mate in 1984. The second one was Sarah Palin. I'm concerned that this track record might make Joe Biden feel that a female VP would jinx his campaign.

 

[Derec]

I think Harris would be a good choice in terms of competence and I believe, compatible with Biden. Would she bring enough from a geographical POV? Maybe not.

There may not be a hope of her directly delivering a state, but the ticket would be geographically balanced - East Coast, West Coast.

I like Warren because she’s solidly progressive, extremely intelligent and hard working and frankly very practical when it comes down to it.

I dislike her with a passion. The unfair way she went after Bloomberg is an example of her personality that is just so grating to me and would likely be to many swing voters.

She’s also older although in apparent far better health than Biden or Trump.

She is way too old to be a running mate for a fellow septuagenarian. Like it or not, but Biden needs somebody younger. And Massachusetts is as safely blue state as California, but Warren would be less geographically balanced as both MA and DE are in the northern half of the East Coast.

She’s another easy coaster with some midwestern roots.

It is very easy to forget she is originally an Oklahoman, yes. She comes across every bit a New England elitist.

Abrams is charismatic and Biden’s campaign could use that. She’s very smart, hard working. She related well to other people. I like her, too.

She is jumping the gun. She needs to demonstrate she can win a contested election first. She should have ran for Senate this year frankly.

For the record, you said you could think of dozens of female candidates better than Abrams. I was surprised you would consider any female candidate so I asked your opinion. Quite sincerely.

I have done so before. I don't know why you would be so surprised.

 

[Derec]

Well that is your opinion. I have no problems either of those two women. Abrams have ten full years of leadership experience, as the minority leader in the Georgia House.

Where Democrats have been in deep minority for all of those years. No wonder they gave that thankless task to an obscure rep from a super-safe district - nobody else probably wanted to do it.

As you well know, Georgia is a large and very diverse state,

But the districts in which Abrams was elected in were definitely not diverse to put it mildly. Not racially and not ideologically. In fact, Republicans did not even bother contesting those seats.
Which means Abrams has never won a contested election in her life. Before she can be considered a serious candidate for Veep, she really needs to win an election against an actual opponent. She really should have ran for Senate this year instead of endorsing that preacher man.

Harris has leadership experience as the AG of California. She's only been in the Senate for three years. I don't see how Abrams experience is inferior to that of Harris. But, that is of course, my opinion. Both women are well qualified.

Harris is infinitely more qualified. For one, Harris actually won some elections. DA for SF, AG for California and US Senate. That surely beats winning some uncontested elections for Georgia House in southern DeKalb. Not to mention that the jobs she was elected for a much more significant than what Abrams has held.

And since you mentioned governors, being a governor doesn't mean you are an effective leader. Pence! My son lives in Indiana and from what I know about Pence, he was a terrible governor. It should be quite obvious just by looking at what an awful, ineffective VP he is. Having experience in a particular role doesn't make you a good leader.

True to a certain extent. But at least he showed he could win that election and then we can see how he handles himself in the position - or not. We have not seen that from Abrams yet.

I like Warren, but I'd prefer a minority woman to run as VP.

Isn't Warren a Cherokee?

I'd also prefer a much younger woman to run, since Warren is or will turn 71 this year. I'm not sure that two candidates in their 70s is best. Of course, that is just my opinion and I will fully support whoever he chooses to be his running mate. I'd just prefer someone younger and more pragmatic than Warren.

We agree there.

 

[Derec]

Stacey Abrams

Instead of inexperienced and untested former state rep Abrams, why not Congresswoman Val Demings if you want a black Southern woman?
Florida is a swing state, unlike Georgia, and Val Demings is much more experienced with her being police chief of Orlando and a US Congresswoman.

Expanding to officially white women, this gives us
Elizabeth Warren

She is from North East though. Also, she is way too old.

 

[Toni]

Stacey Abrams

Instead of inexperienced and untested former state rep Abrams, why not Congresswoman Val Demings if you want a black Southern woman?
Florida is a swing state, unlike Georgia, and Val Demings is much more experienced with her being police chief of Orlando and a US Congresswoman.

Expanding to officially white women, this gives us
Elizabeth Warren

She is from North East though. Also, she is way too old.

Val Demings is someone whose name has come up as well. She seems like a definite possibility.

I also have concerns about Warren’s age but I’d much prefer as POTUS than either Trump or Biden. She’s signifucantly younger and in better health and very sharp mentally as well. She’s very experienced, hard working and very competent. She can work across the aisle as well—and that is necessary.

 

[Derec]

I also have concerns about Warren’s age but I’d much prefer as POTUS than either Trump or Biden. She’s signifucantly younger and in better health and very sharp mentally as well. She’s very experienced, hard working and very competent. She can work across the aisle as well—and that is necessary.

The thing is - the primaries are over. Warren failed to catch fire. Now the decision is about the running mate, and she is not a good fit for Biden at all.

 

[Toni]

I also have concerns about Warren’s age but I’d much prefer as POTUS than either Trump or Biden. She’s signifucantly younger and in better health and very sharp mentally as well. She’s very experienced, hard working and very competent. She can work across the aisle as well—and that is necessary.

The thing is - the primaries are over. Warren failed to catch fire. Now the decision is about the running mate, and she is not a good fit for Biden at all.

For that matter, Harris also ‘failed to catch fire.’ She didn’t last nearly as long as Warren did. Note: Harris was always in y top four or five. I still like her. I’d just rather see Warren and a more productive greasier agenda. She’s got a lot more experience than Harris.

Warren would be a darn good replacement. Frankly that’s something that must be considered for eitherTrump or Biden: could their VP do a good job when they need to step into the role of POTUS. Not if: when.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Kamala Harris is still recovering from the beating Tulsi Gabbard gave her. I notice Gabbard isn't on the list ... the price you pay for opposing the Clinton machine.

Meanwhile Stacey Abrams... an interesting choice, for the Democratic Party to pick someone who admits to being a fan of Ayn Rand.

Stacey Abrams: Pragmatic Democrat in a Red State

As for listing the Ayn Rand novel “Atlas Shrugged,” as one of her favorites – an admittedly unusual choice for a Democrat, Abrams says that she rejects the author’s “selfishness theory,” but nevertheless says: 'When we stop celebrating innovation and genius and thought and creativity … then we run very real risks as humans.'

Suddenly, I want Biden to name Stacey Abrams as his veep. Can anyone imagine another Democratic politician saying something this thoughtful and nuanced? Yeah, I know she'll probably apologize (maybe already has) but she still said it. Also, compare to all the times people insist on reminding me that Paul Ryan aspires to be Wesley Mouch.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Kamala Harris is still recovering from the beating Tulsi Gabbard gave her. I notice Gabbard isn't on the list ... the price you pay for opposing the Clinton machine.

Meanwhile Stacey Abrams... an interesting choice, for the Democratic Party to pick someone who admits to being a fan of Ayn Rand.

Stacey Abrams: Pragmatic Democrat in a Red State

As for listing the Ayn Rand novel “Atlas Shrugged,” as one of her favorites – an admittedly unusual choice for a Democrat, Abrams says that she rejects the author’s “selfishness theory,” but nevertheless says: 'When we stop celebrating innovation and genius and thought and creativity … then we run very real risks as humans.'

Suddenly, I want Biden to name Stacey Abrams as his veep. Can anyone imagine another Democratic politician saying something this thoughtful and nuanced? Yeah, I know she'll probably apologize (maybe already has) but she still said it. Also, compare to all the times people insist on reminding me that Paul Ryan aspires to be Wesley Mouch.

Gabbert self destructed! I actually liked her a little in the beginning. But she could never formulate secondary positions. All that she could do was talk foreign policy. And then when her support went down, she went on and on about conspiracies and bizzaro theories. She needs a lot more seasoning and less entitlement.

I still favor EB, Abrams, and Harris.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Harris - her record as a prosecutor hurting minorities is what got her campaign to fall apart.
Abrams - you would favor a fan of Ayn Rand?
EB - so well known I can't tell who you are referring to.

 

[Toni]

Kamala Harris is still recovering from the beating Tulsi Gabbard gave her. I notice Gabbard isn't on the list ... the price you pay for opposing the Clinton machine.

Meanwhile Stacey Abrams... an interesting choice, for the Democratic Party to pick someone who admits to being a fan of Ayn Rand.

Stacey Abrams: Pragmatic Democrat in a Red State

As for listing the Ayn Rand novel “Atlas Shrugged,” as one of her favorites – an admittedly unusual choice for a Democrat, Abrams says that she rejects the author’s “selfishness theory,” but nevertheless says: 'When we stop celebrating innovation and genius and thought and creativity … then we run very real risks as humans.'

Suddenly, I want Biden to name Stacey Abrams as his veep. Can anyone imagine another Democratic politician saying something this thoughtful and nuanced? Yeah, I know she'll probably apologize (maybe already has) but she still said it. Also, compare to all the times people insist on reminding me that Paul Ryan aspires to be Wesley Mouch.

Gabbert self destructed! I actually liked her a little in the beginning. But she could never formulate secondary positions. All that she could do was talk foreign policy. And then when her support went down, she went on and on about conspiracies and bizzaro theories. She needs a lot more seasoning and less entitlement.

I still favor EB, Abrams, and Harris.

I was excited to hear that a young woman was in the race--and then I learned about Tulsi Gabbard. Not no way not no how.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Anti-War and Anti-Clinton (but I repeat myself) is so Anti-Feminist.