Violence and the Election

[Toni]

Keyword: Historically. These days it's from the right.

Only if you dismiss the 2020 political violence that has largely been coming from the left.

And this year somebody detonated a bomb at the Alabama Attorney General's office. While nobody has been caught yet, chances are the motivation was from the left wing.

Your premise seems to be countered by the National Institute of Justice:

What NIJ Research Tells Us About Domestic Terrorism

Militant, nationalistic, white supremacist violent extremism has increased in the United States. In fact, the number of far-right attacks continues to outpace all other types of terrorism and domestic violent extremism.

nij.ojp.gov

What NIJ Research Tells Us About Domestic Terrorism​

NIJ-funded research projects have led to a better understanding of the processes that result in violent action, factors that increase the risk of radicalizing to violence, and how best to prevent and respond to violent extremism.



Date Published
January 4, 2024
By

Steven Chermak
Matthew DeMichele
Jeff Gruenewald
Michael Jensen
Raven Lewis
Basia E. Lopez
Militant, nationalistic, white supremacist violent extremism has increased in the United States. In fact, the number of far-right attacks continues to outpace all other types of terrorism and domestic violent extremism. Since 1990, far-right extremists have committed far more ideologically motivated homicides than far-left or radical Islamist extremists, including 227 events that took more than 520 lives.[1] In this same period, far-left extremists committed 42 ideologically motivated attacks that took 78 lives.[2] A recent threat assessment by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security concluded that domestic violent extremists are an acute threat and highlighted a probability that COVID-19 pandemic-related stressors, long-standing ideological grievances related to immigration, and narratives surrounding electoral fraud will continue to serve as a justification for violent actions.[3]

However others see many similarities between left wing and right wing violence:

A comparison of political violence by left-wing, right-wing, and Islamist extremists in the United States and the world

Following the 9/11 attacks, there were large increases in Islamist terrorism driven especially by al-Qaeda, ISIS, and their affiliates. More recently, we have seen an upsurge in right-wing political extremism in countries around the world. Despite the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

More generally, there is growing evidence suggesting that extremists representing different ideologies may have more in common than has been assumed (20). For example, extreme liberals and conservatives both represent the social world in a similar, simplistic way, which distinguishes both groups from more moderate individuals (21). In studies of behavior in conflict, one study (22) found that both right-wing and left-wing extremists used more negative and angrier language than moderates did. Finally, a strong inclination to defend one’s beliefs against worldview-violating groups and a low tolerance for such groups has been identified for both liberals and conservatives (23). Taken together, this research suggests that left-wing and right-wing extremists could be equally likely to use violence to pursue their ideological goals.

 

[AdamWho]

Hey @AdamWho good to see ya.
Sounds like maybe you gave up on the GQP rejecting Trump.

Rest assured though, election workers will continue to be attacked. The people who attacked them last cycle are still running free. If Trump loses it’s it’s election workers’ fault. Naturally.

No, I think the Republicans have given up on Trump. Trump's base, is just the cult and a few craven power worshipers.

I am talking about the people on the front-lines helping voters, not the behind-the-scenes people. Plus I am not black so I am safe. And I know how to code-switch around RW lunatics.

 

[ZiprHead]

I bring this case up because other leftist violence (like the deadly and very destructive violence through much of 2020) doesn't matter because ut did not involve the Capitol.

Are you saying those rioters were left wing? As far as I can tell the rioters were protesting police violence.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

And I know how to code-switch around RW lunatics.

I've become a bit of an expert at that myself - out of necessity. I've found that RW lunatics are easily manipulated.

 

[Shadowy Man]

no. He compared it to the dragging of a lectern and putting feet up on a desk. And to be fair those are mild things.

And yet those people got far more prison time than the two #BLM lawyers who torched a police vehicle in NYC.

Many of those people pled guilty to their crimes. If you have issues with the jail times then that may be an issue of the statutes and not necessarily the application thereof. We would have to get into specifics to find out what you think was politically motivated.

Criminal prosecutions should not be based on which side of the political spectrum one is on, but only on the severity of the crimes.

i agree that every crime should be addressed equally and without political bias.

Unfortunately, under Merrick Garland, DOJ has become very political.

It is of course intellectual dishonesty to leave out the rest of what happened

Compared to the 2020 violence, 1/6 was pretty mild. That's my point.

No, That was not the point you were making in the post I was responding to.

Your ilk killed an 8 year girl in Atlanta. Let that sink in.

“My ilk”? Please don’t make this personal as you don’t know me.

People on here harp on right-wing violence but either ignore leftist violence altogether, or dismiss it as insignificant.

You have indeed pointed out someone in particular who did that but that doesn’t mean we all do.

Oh, 2020 doesn't matter because it did not involve the Capitol.

The point is that one was an assault on our government directly threatening our democratic institutions. That doesn’t justify other crimes but it does point out a difference. A difference that seems to be dismissed by you continually.

 

[Shadowy Man]

I bring this case up because other leftist violence (like the deadly and very destructive violence through much of 2020) doesn't matter because ut did not involve the Capitol.

Are you saying those rioters were left wing? As far as I can tell the rioters were protesting police violence.

To be fair, praising police violence appears to be a right wing thing.

 

[SLD]

I don't see how calling for a bloodbath over auto imports is supposed to be better than calling for the same over an election. If I don't want to see blood shed over an important issue, why would I want to see it lost over a trivial one?

I'm hearing some claim that he meant to refer to an "economic bloodbath" not a literal one. But what the hell is that supposed to mean? I've never heard anyone else refer to an "economic bloodbath". That is not even a thing.

I agree. He uses language to stir up his cult, which can easily lead to violence, regardless if he means bloodbath literally or as some type of weird metaphor that nobody would ever use. But, most of what he says doesn't even make sense, so I guess we shouldn't be surprised at anything he says.

He's a dangerous psychopath, but I'm sure you already knew that.

Yeah. He doesn’t get his hands dirty. Hitler never killed a Jew. He knows what his rhetoric means to his followers. He can say auto industry, . They can take it anyway they want.

 

[ZiprHead]

I bring this case up because other leftist violence (like the deadly and very destructive violence through much of 2020) doesn't matter because ut did not involve the Capitol.

Are you saying those rioters were left wing? As far as I can tell the rioters were protesting police violence.

To be fair, praising police violence appears to be a right wing thing.

This may be true but you cannot characterize someone's entire political philosophy based on only one stated opinion.

The guy that mows my lawn has participated in anti police violence protests here, yet he supports Trump.

 

[ideologyhunter]

He knows what his rhetoric means to his followers. He can say auto industry, . They can take it anyway they want.

Trump in Wilmington, NC, 8/9/2016: "Hillary wants to abolish, essentially abolish the Second Amendment. If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the Second Amendment people -- maybe there is. I don't know."

Obviously, Trump meant that the 'Second Amendment people' could mobilize along community action lines: letters to the editor, neighborhood picnics, discussion groups at the public library, coffee chats at church. That sorta thing. Putting a round through Hillary's head? No way. He's running for President!

 

[ZiprHead]

Hillary???

 

[Derec]

It is also worth noting that the above-referenced people were a half dozen extremists.

They were part of a much bigger movement though that included WU, BLA, etc.

On January 6th, 2021, thousands of extremists marched on the Capitol. Hundreds of them broke into the building. North of 700 have been arrested/charged/convicted with everything from trespassing to seditious conspiracy.

And that's the point. Hundreds were prosecuted to the full extent of the law. And they should be. My beef is not with that, but with the relaytive lack of consequences for the 2020 rioters. Very few of them were prosecuted, and even those who have have gotten sweetheart deals by Garland for federal charges. How is trespassing a more serious crime than handing out Molotov cocktails and torching a police vehicle at a riot?

A handful of radicals once attempted to bomb the Senate late one night.

They successfully bombed the Senate. You continue to minimize any instance of leftist violence.

Thousands of radicals stormed the Capitol and tried to overthrow the government in broad daylight at the behest of a sitting President.

What proof do you have that it was "at the behest of a sitting President"? For the legal machinations there is a lot of evidence. For him inciting 1/6 there isn't.

One of these things is not like the other.

No two things are exactly alike. My point is that leftists engage in political violence as well, no matter how much your ilk minimizes it.

 

[Shadowy Man]

I bring this case up because other leftist violence (like the deadly and very destructive violence through much of 2020) doesn't matter because ut did not involve the Capitol.

Are you saying those rioters were left wing? As far as I can tell the rioters were protesting police violence.

To be fair, praising police violence appears to be a right wing thing.

This may be true but you cannot characterize someone's entire political philosophy based on only one stated opinion.

Maybe you just aren’t reading Derec’s posts closely enough.

The guy that mows my lawn has participated in anti police violence protests here, yet he supports Trump.

 

[Derec]

If that were the extent of the damage intended or inflicted, you’d have a better point. But in the Jan 6 insurrection, more than just buildings were damaged:

Your side does a lot more damage to buildings. Police stations, courthouses, stores, restaurants - all those fell victim to the destructive impulses of the 2020 #BLM rioters. A lot more people were killed and injured as well, including an 8 year girl who was murdered during an armed occupation of the site of the burned down Wendy's in Atlanta.

people lost their lives,

The only one who was killed during 1/6 was one of the rioters, and she was unarmed.
Very different case than for example that of left-wing activist Manuel Teran from the 2023 Prison Farm occupation, who shot a trooper in the abdomen before others returned fire and killed him. Guess who gets more favorable mentions in the mainstream media - Teran or Babbitt?

There were, during 1/6 assaults on police and injuries, and of course, all responsible for that should be brought up on felony charges. But there were far more injuries during 2020 riots, but those responsible have largely escaped justice.

there were people threatening the lives of the sitting VP and the sitting Speaker, and were there at the behest and with the encouragement of the sitting POTUS, in an effort to overthrow the very foundation of our government: free and fair elections.

What exactly did Trump say or write? Because afaik, he only encouraged people to protest. So did Kamala Harris and others in 2020. Does that make riots done "at the behest and with the encouragement" of Harris and others?

If you think that I agree with Clinton commuting those sentences, you’d be wrong.

Well, at least we agree on something ...

 

[Derec]

Hillary???

How fast people forget. She was the 2016 Democratic nominee. The one who managed to lose to Trump.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Hillary???

How fast people forget. She was the 2016 Democratic nominee. The one who managed to lose to Trump.

While exceeding his vote count by 2,868,828 votes, one of them mine. The genius of the American electoral system.

 

[Derec]

While exceeding his vote count by 2,868,828 votes, one of them mine. The genius of the American electoral system.

Sigh. We went over this nonsense almost 2,868,828 times. Popular vote does not matter, so the campaigns are not seeking to maximize it, any more than a coach in the NBA Finals is seeking to maximize aggregate points. If the vote had been held under a popular vote system, the campaigns would have been run very differently, and the final score would have been different as well. You cannot assume Hillary would still have been ahead, and she didn't win a majority anyway, which would have meant a runoff.

 

[Elixir]

She was the 2016 Democratic nominee. The one who managed to lose to Trump.

After a thirty years long, continuous smear campaign. Including hour upon hour of her in-person testimony and no finding of wrongdoing... it's amazing how effective propaganda is in a loose confederation of feudal domains. "BIN-GOZZY!" remains a GQP battle cry.

They didn't have long enough to work on tearing Biden down, but they have kept at it admirably. By 2024 they have another four years behind them focused on the job at hand. They even have an impeachment clown circus going on! The GQP may well succeed in electing the Russian stooge. They now have Putin's advanced propaganda machine, operating right out in the open with no need to be covert about it. And MAGAts are eating it all up.

 

[laughing dog]

Keyword: Historically. These days it's from the right.

Only if you dismiss the 2020 political violence that has largely been coming from the left.

And this year somebody detonated a bomb at the Alabama Attorney General's office. While nobody has been caught yet, chances are the motivation was from the left wing.

Why would that be?

 

[Derec]

Why would that be?

Motive.

 

[Derec]

it's amazing how effective propaganda is in a loose confederation of feudal domains.

United States, according to Elixir ...