- Joined
- Oct 22, 2002
- Messages
- 46,176
- Location
- Frozen in Michigan
- Gender
- Old Fart
- Basic Beliefs
- Don't be a dick.
EVERY house democrat on the capital steps.
"Democrats united against 'unprecedented assault' "
Throughout history there have only been 3 ways that governments have ultimately dealt with excessive debt and these are ALL civilization killers.
To wit:
1) Inflation
2) Confiscate wealth
3) Renounce the debt
So let us only hope that the senate fails to pass Trump's beautiful bill before he not only ruins his own legacy but destroys civilization in the process.
Krugman said:Republicans are using transparently dishonest accounting to hide just how much they’re adding to debt — hey, we aren’t really cutting taxes, just extending tax cuts that were scheduled to expire. And they’re also claiming that the OBBBA’s tax cuts (the ones that they say aren’t really happening) will generate a miraculous surge in economic growth. I’ve had my differences with the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, but it’s an honest, highly competent think tank, and its (appropriately) incredulous analysis of Trump officials’ economic projections is titled “CEA’s fantastical economic assumptions.”
Add in Trump’s bizarro claims about what his tariffs will achieve. Again, do we look like a serious country run by serious people?
Tugh sell. They don't want Alaska. They sold it to US.Maybe we can give Alaska to Russia in exchange for stopping their invasion of Ukraine.
More than a photo. The total of House Dems, as a whole, publicly called out/shamed individual Repugs for betraying their constituents.Yes they all lined up for a group photo.
But what will they actually do?
I don’t think they knew how much oil was there when they sold it.Tugh sell. They don't want Alaska. They sold it to US.Maybe we can give Alaska to Russia in exchange for stopping their invasion of Ukraine.
But the UK was destroyed by debt. That is exactly the point. At one time the UK held the world's reserve currency with so many colonies the "sun never set" on the UK. That was before its huge debt burdens when the UK was a big deal in the world.Paul Krugman has forgotten more economic science than all the Trumplickers ever knew added together. He explains why Trump's deficit is MUCH more malign than most deficits.
Throughout history there have only been 3 ways that governments have ultimately dealt with excessive debt and these are ALL civilization killers.
I wondered about this "Throughout history" claim. Throughout history is a long time. Why didn't RVonse present the detailed financial history during the Punic Wars, etc.?
To wit:
1) Inflation
2) Confiscate wealth
3) Renounce the debt
So let us only hope that the senate fails to pass Trump's beautiful bill before he not only ruins his own legacy but destroys civilization in the process.
"Ruins his own legacy"!!![]()
I suppose RVonse thought Trump was the greatest Prez ever -- everybody says so -- until the Democrats forced the Big Beautiful Bill down his throat!
Anyway, I didn't know FRED had datasets going back to 1700. Krugman shows such a graph in the column linked above, and I've reproduced it below. You can see UK public debt rising sharply to 62% of GDP by 1715, and hitting 194% in 1822 as they recovered from the Napoleonic Wars. It was as high as 186% in the aftermath of WW I and then, instead of recovering, reached 259% after WW II. Yes, that's Two Hundred Fifty-nine, with a T.
This debt wasn't renounced; wealth wasn't confiscated (Yes, I understand that RVonse probably considers ANY tax, no matter how tiny, as "confiscation") excepting for the Brexit own-goal. So was there inflation?
The price of gold in 1722 was £ 4.25 per troy ounce -- [historical note: This price was set by a bureaucrat named Sir Isaac Newton] -- and the price of gold in 1930 -- more than two centuries later -- was (drumroll please) £ 4.25. This despite huge economic growth. There's a technical name for this, but it isn't inflation. It's DE-flation.
So yes, RVonse, I think we DO need to see evidence for your "Throughout history there have only been 3 ways that governments have ultimately dealt with excessive debt and these are ALL civilization killers" claim.
View attachment 51265
Have you told the English,Welsh, Irish and Scots that their civilization was killed? Because they don’t know.Debt was a civilization killer for the UK, full stop.
If they thought they were so well off, why did they pass Brexit then?Have you told the English,Welsh, Irish and Scots that their civilization was killed? Because they don’t know.Debt was a civilization killer for the UK, full stop.
Because they thought they were better than the EU.If they thought they were so well off, why did they pass Brexit then?
Also because they got sold a bunch of bullshit by "populist" politicians like Boris Johnson.Because they thought they were better than the EU.If they thought they were so well off, why did they pass Brexit then?
It was also AFTER 1822, when debt was 194% of GDP.But the UK was destroyed by debt. That is exactly the point. At one time the UK held the world's reserve currency with so many colonies the "sun never set" on the UK. That was before its huge debt burdens when the UK was a big deal in the world.
This is simply false.If the US would not have entered WW2 the UK would have likely been defeated by Germany.
Because the Tory Party was trying to resolve an internal party conflict over policy, and it rained in London on the day of the referendum.If they thought they were so well off, why did they pass Brexit then?Have you told the English,Welsh, Irish and Scots that their civilization was killed? Because they don’t know.Debt was a civilization killer for the UK, full stop.
How is that connected to their civilization being killed?If they thought they were so well off, why did they pass Brexit then?Have you told the English,Welsh, Irish and Scots that their civilization was killed? Because they don’t know.Debt was a civilization killer for the UK, full stop.
But the UK was destroyed by debt. That is exactly the point. At one time the UK held the world's reserve currency with so many colonies the "sun never set" on the UK. That was before its huge debt burdens when the UK was a big deal in the world....So yes, RVonse, I think we DO need to see evidence for your "Throughout history there have only been 3 ways that governments have ultimately dealt with excessive debt and these are ALL civilization killers" claim.
Debt was a civilization killer for the UK, full stop.
This is simply false.If the US would not have entered WW2 the UK would have likely been defeated by Germany.
Winston Spencer Churchill in C17-x said:Secret and Personal for the President from Former Naval Person
...
Although the present government and I personally would never fail to send the fleet across the Atlantic if resistance was beaten down here, a point may be reached in the struggle where the present ministers no longer have control of affairs and when very easy terms could be obtained for the British islands by their becoming a vassal state of the Hitler empire. A pro-German government would certainly be called into being to make peace and might present to a shattered or a starving nation an almost irresistible case for entire submission to the Nazi will. The fate of the British fleet as I have already mentioned to you would be decisive on the future of the United States because if it were joined to the fleets of Japan , France, and Italy and the great resources of German industry, overwhelming sea power would be in Hitler's hands. He might, of course, use it with a merciful moderation. On the other hand he might not. This revolution in sea power might happen very quickly and certainly long before the United States would be able to prepare against it. If we go down you may have a United States of Europe under the Nazi command far more numerous, far stronger, far better armed than the new [world].
I know well, Mr. President, that your eye will already have searched these depths but I feel I have the right to place on record the vital manner in which American interests are at stake in our battle and that of France. I am sending you through Ambassador Kennedy a paper on destroyer strength prepared by the naval staff for your information. If we have to keep as we shall, the bulk of our destroyers on the east coast to guard against invasion, how shall we be able to cope with a German-Italian attack on the food and trade by which we live? The sender of the 35 destroyers as I have already described will bridge the gap until our new construction comes in at the end of the year. Here is a definite practical and possible decisive step which can be taken at once and I urge most earnestly that you will weigh my words.
...
We must ask therefore as a matter of life or death to be reinforced with these destroyers. We will carry out the struggle whatever the odds but it may well be beyond our resources unless we receive every reinforcement and particularly do we need this reinforcement on the sea.
None here.Me too. I suspect anyone on the rolls and has an email addressed registered got it too.
I suspect that those whose benefits did not get cut, got the email claming the Big Bonfire Bill helped them.None here.Me too. I suspect anyone on the rolls and has an email addressed registered got it too.
I got the advertisement /letter too.Just claim victory to the lucky ones