Were Russia and US ever allies? (Split from How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?)

[Harry Bosch]

The US were planning to use defeated Germany and their nazis to start a war with USSR right after the end of WW2. Optics would have been horrible and they cancelled these plans. Waited 70 years and used ukrainian nazis to revive old plans.

This is the central problem in the world today. Russians have always been suspicious of the west and have always believed that we're going to invade their country. It's sad. I hate to tell you this Barbos: but we don't want Russia. Having your gas would be nice for a couple years. But in the long term, we don't need it. Vodka is overrated. Why do you think the west wants to invade Russia? What would we gain?

 

[barbos]

Canada and America supplied Russia with materials and weapons in WWII, even though we were not allies.

Er, yes, you were.

I am flabbergasted that anyone who was alive in the C20th doesn't know this...

https://ru.usembassy.gov/world-war-ii-allies-u-s-lend-lease-to-the-soviet-union-1941-1945/

How can we be allies if we aren't yet in the conflict. Sure the US government had sentiments. It just didn't have alliances or treaties. We were non-combatant allies of Great Britain and because of this we were asked by the Brits to extend services to USSR. We did a favor but we weren't allies.

Yes, we're allies! We're not in direct combat against Russia. But we're sending arms to Ukraine, training their soldiers, helping their economy, using our cyber against Russia; anything that we can do short of starting a nuclear war we're doing. Meanwhile, through all this, Russia continues to demand fully unconditional Ukranian surrender before they'll talk. Unbelievable. Russia is self-destructing. And they have nonone to blame but themselves and Putler.

That's patently false. Russia was open to negotiations in March. But Boris Johnson said "No!!" Now it's actually fuhrer Elensky who demands unconditional surrender and free pass to North Korea in order to wage war on them. Not to mention american generals who are planning partition of Russia.

 

[barbos]

The US were planning to use defeated Germany and their nazis to start a war with USSR right after the end of WW2. Optics would have been horrible and they cancelled these plans. Waited 70 years and used ukrainian nazis to revive old plans.

This is the central problem in the world today. Russians have always been suspicious of the west and have always believed that we're going to invade their country. It's sad. I hate to tell you this Barbos: but we don't want Russia. Having your gas would be nice for a couple years. But in the long term, we don't need it. Vodka is overrated. Why do you think the west wants to invade Russia? What would we gain?

You personally will get nothing. Cunts like Fiona Hill will get employment and MIC will get a lot of contracts. I am assuming no Nuclear War, which is a huge assumption.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Canada and America supplied Russia with materials and weapons in WWII, even though we were not allies.

Er, yes, you were.

I am flabbergasted that anyone who was alive in the C20th doesn't know this...

https://ru.usembassy.gov/world-war-ii-allies-u-s-lend-lease-to-the-soviet-union-1941-1945/

How can we be allies if we aren't yet in the conflict. Sure the US government had sentiments. It just didn't have alliances or treaties. We were non-combatant allies of Great Britain and because of this we were asked by the Brits to extend services to USSR. We did a favor but we weren't allies.

Yes, we're allies! We're not in direct combat against Russia. But we're sending arms to Ukraine, training their soldiers, helping their economy, using our cyber against Russia; anything that we can do short of starting a nuclear war we're doing. Meanwhile, through all this, Russia continues to demand fully unconditional Ukranian surrender before they'll talk. Unbelievable. Russia is self-destructing. And they have nonone to blame but themselves and Putler.

That's patently false. Russia was open to negotiations in March. But Boris Johnson said "No!!" Now it's actually fuhrer Elensky who demands unconditional surrender and free pass to North Korea in order to wage war on them. Not to mention american generals who are planning partition of Russia.

You are correct! Yes, your side was open to negotiations! All Ukraine had to do was "denaziify, de arm, and put all Ukranian leaders in concentration camps, and totally give in to total occupation to Russia troops. To this day, shocking that Zelensky laughed at these terms!

 

[Elixir]

What would we gain?

All those hot women?

 

[barbos]

Canada and America supplied Russia with materials and weapons in WWII, even though we were not allies.

Er, yes, you were.

I am flabbergasted that anyone who was alive in the C20th doesn't know this...

https://ru.usembassy.gov/world-war-ii-allies-u-s-lend-lease-to-the-soviet-union-1941-1945/

How can we be allies if we aren't yet in the conflict. Sure the US government had sentiments. It just didn't have alliances or treaties. We were non-combatant allies of Great Britain and because of this we were asked by the Brits to extend services to USSR. We did a favor but we weren't allies.

Yes, we're allies! We're not in direct combat against Russia. But we're sending arms to Ukraine, training their soldiers, helping their economy, using our cyber against Russia; anything that we can do short of starting a nuclear war we're doing. Meanwhile, through all this, Russia continues to demand fully unconditional Ukranian surrender before they'll talk. Unbelievable. Russia is self-destructing. And they have nonone to blame but themselves and Putler.

That's patently false. Russia was open to negotiations in March. But Boris Johnson said "No!!" Now it's actually fuhrer Elensky who demands unconditional surrender and free pass to North Korea in order to wage war on them. Not to mention american generals who are planning partition of Russia.

You are correct! Yes, your side was open to negotiations! All Ukraine had to do was "denaziify, de arm, and put all Ukranian leaders in concentration camps, and totally give in to total occupation to Russia troops. To this day, shocking that Zelensky laughed at these terms!

Well, ukrainian side was ready to accept terms which were reasonable.
It was Boris who said "No". Boris is an idiot.
Anyway, Russia does not and should not trust the West.
Your current crop of politicians is stupid scam, all of them.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Canada and America supplied Russia with materials and weapons in WWII, even though we were not allies.

Er, yes, you were.

I am flabbergasted that anyone who was alive in the C20th doesn't know this...

https://ru.usembassy.gov/world-war-ii-allies-u-s-lend-lease-to-the-soviet-union-1941-1945/

How can we be allies if we aren't yet in the conflict. Sure the US government had sentiments. It just didn't have alliances or treaties. We were non-combatant allies of Great Britain and because of this we were asked by the Brits to extend services to USSR. We did a favor but we weren't allies.

Yes, we're allies! We're not in direct combat against Russia. But we're sending arms to Ukraine, training their soldiers, helping their economy, using our cyber against Russia; anything that we can do short of starting a nuclear war we're doing. Meanwhile, through all this, Russia continues to demand fully unconditional Ukranian surrender before they'll talk. Unbelievable. Russia is self-destructing. And they have nonone to blame but themselves and Putler.

That's patently false. Russia was open to negotiations in March. But Boris Johnson said "No!!" Now it's actually fuhrer Elensky who demands unconditional surrender and free pass to North Korea in order to wage war on them. Not to mention american generals who are planning partition of Russia.

You are correct! Yes, your side was open to negotiations! All Ukraine had to do was "denaziify, de arm, and put all Ukranian leaders in concentration camps, and totally give in to total occupation to Russia troops. To this day, shocking that Zelensky laughed at these terms!

Well, ukrainian side was ready to accept terms which were reasonable.
It was Boris who said "No". Boris is an idiot.
Anyway, Russia does not and should not trust the West.

Please! Give me a break! Would Russia agree to dearm and allow NATO to take over it's government if we stopped being mean to your side? Of course not. No sane country would agree to the terms that Putler offered unless it was utterly destroyed. Which is what Russia has been trying to do.

 

[barbos]

Canada and America supplied Russia with materials and weapons in WWII, even though we were not allies.

Er, yes, you were.

I am flabbergasted that anyone who was alive in the C20th doesn't know this...

https://ru.usembassy.gov/world-war-ii-allies-u-s-lend-lease-to-the-soviet-union-1941-1945/

How can we be allies if we aren't yet in the conflict. Sure the US government had sentiments. It just didn't have alliances or treaties. We were non-combatant allies of Great Britain and because of this we were asked by the Brits to extend services to USSR. We did a favor but we weren't allies.

Yes, we're allies! We're not in direct combat against Russia. But we're sending arms to Ukraine, training their soldiers, helping their economy, using our cyber against Russia; anything that we can do short of starting a nuclear war we're doing. Meanwhile, through all this, Russia continues to demand fully unconditional Ukranian surrender before they'll talk. Unbelievable. Russia is self-destructing. And they have nonone to blame but themselves and Putler.

That's patently false. Russia was open to negotiations in March. But Boris Johnson said "No!!" Now it's actually fuhrer Elensky who demands unconditional surrender and free pass to North Korea in order to wage war on them. Not to mention american generals who are planning partition of Russia.

You are correct! Yes, your side was open to negotiations! All Ukraine had to do was "denaziify, de arm, and put all Ukranian leaders in concentration camps, and totally give in to total occupation to Russia troops. To this day, shocking that Zelensky laughed at these terms!

Well, ukrainian side was ready to accept terms which were reasonable.
It was Boris who said "No". Boris is an idiot.
Anyway, Russia does not and should not trust the West.

Please! Give me a break! Would Russia agree to dearm and allow NATO to take over it's government if we stopped being mean to your side? Of course not. No sane country would agree to the terms that Putler offered unless it was utterly destroyed. Which is what Russia has been trying to do.

No, you give me a break.
You cannot compare Ukraine to Russia. Ukraine is a shitty country used by NATO to attack and destroy/weaken Russia. Russia is defending against NATO who is the aggressor here.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

How can we be allies if we aren't yet in the conflict. Sure the US government had sentiments. It just didn't have alliances or treaties. We were non-combatant allies of Great Britain and because of this we were asked by the Brits to extend services to USSR. We did a favor but we weren't allies.

The USA and the USSR were de facto allies in the same way the USA and the UK were: non-combatant. Do you for a moment think that The USA is not an ally of the Ukraine because it does not have a formal treaty and is not involved in direct combat?

Hey I was there in mummies womb reading the papers every day.

U.S.-Soviet Alliance, 1941-1945

U.S.-Soviet Alliance, 1941-1945

2001-2009.state.gov

The most important factor in swaying the Soviets eventually to enter into an alliance with the United States was the Nazi decision to launch its invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941. President Roosevelt responded by dispatching his trusted aide Harry Lloyd Hopkins to Moscow in order to assess the Soviet military situation. Although the War Department had warned the President that the Soviets would not last more than six weeks, after two one-on-one meetings with Soviet Premier Josef Stalin, Hopkins urged Roosevelt to assist the Soviets. By the end of October, the first Lend-Lease aid to the Soviet Union was on its way. The United States entered the war as a belligerent in late 1941 and thus began coordinating directly with the Soviets, and the British, as allies

It turns out I am in error that Britain encouraged our becoming allies with Russia. It was entirely due to Germany's aggression against the USSR. However I'm correct when I said US and USSR were not allies until late 1941, coincident with extending lend-lease agreement to them in late1941. We began working with Britain in1940.

Pretty much splitting hairs here, but perhaps it is most accurate to say Britain and the US were solidly aligned with the Soviet Union. We were both fighting in concert, against the same enemy and here the term Allies is quite accurate and hard to argue against. I think our during war view was we didn't trust the Soviet Union's post war plans, but we trusted each other enough to fight together against the Germans.

Our A-Bombs in Japan shortly after Soviet engagement in the Japanese side of things is an indicator we didn't trust the Soviets much at all post war.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Canada and America supplied Russia with materials and weapons in WWII, even though we were not allies.

Er, yes, you were.

I am flabbergasted that anyone who was alive in the C20th doesn't know this...

https://ru.usembassy.gov/world-war-ii-allies-u-s-lend-lease-to-the-soviet-union-1941-1945/

How can we be allies if we aren't yet in the conflict. Sure the US government had sentiments. It just didn't have alliances or treaties. We were non-combatant allies of Great Britain and because of this we were asked by the Brits to extend services to USSR. We did a favor but we weren't allies.

Yes, we're allies! We're not in direct combat against Russia. But we're sending arms to Ukraine, training their soldiers, helping their economy, using our cyber against Russia; anything that we can do short of starting a nuclear war we're doing. Meanwhile, through all this, Russia continues to demand fully unconditional Ukranian surrender before they'll talk. Unbelievable. Russia is self-destructing. And they have nonone to blame but themselves and Putler.

That's patently false. Russia was open to negotiations in March. But Boris Johnson said "No!!" Now it's actually fuhrer Elensky who demands unconditional surrender and free pass to North Korea in order to wage war on them. Not to mention american generals who are planning partition of Russia.

You are correct! Yes, your side was open to negotiations! All Ukraine had to do was "denaziify, de arm, and put all Ukranian leaders in concentration camps, and totally give in to total occupation to Russia troops. To this day, shocking that Zelensky laughed at these terms!

Well, ukrainian side was ready to accept terms which were reasonable.
It was Boris who said "No". Boris is an idiot.
Anyway, Russia does not and should not trust the West.

Please! Give me a break! Would Russia agree to dearm and allow NATO to take over it's government if we stopped being mean to your side? Of course not. No sane country would agree to the terms that Putler offered unless it was utterly destroyed. Which is what Russia has been trying to do.

No, you give me a break.
You cannot compare Ukraine to Russia. Ukraine is a shitty country used by NATO to attack and destroy/weaken Russia. Russia is defending against NATO who is the aggressor here.

So really you are saying that there is no compromise with Ukraine unless it is destroyed. If so, why not just fucking say that? Russia is the most passive aggressive country in the world.

 

[barbos]

So really you are saying that there is no compromise with Ukraine unless it is destroyed.

Fuck! I told you already, there was one, and you (the west, not Ukraine) fucking rejected it. And you rejected it because your goal (from the get-go) have been to continue this attack on Russia. Nobody cares about stupid idiots in Ukraine. Your fucking generals flat out admit that on TV, it's all about hurting Russia. Do you even watch your own TV with your own assholes in it?

 

[Harry Bosch]

So really you are saying that there is no compromise with Ukraine unless it is destroyed.

Fuck! I told you already, there was one, and you (the west, not Ukraine) fucking rejected it. And you rejected it because your goal was to continue this attack on Russia from the start. Nobody cares about stupid idiots in Ukraine. Your fucking generals flat out admit that on TV, it's all about hurting Russia. Do you even watch your own TV with your own assholes in it?

If your side would simply remove your troops from Ukranian lands, the war would be over. Period, end of story.

 

[barbos]

So really you are saying that there is no compromise with Ukraine unless it is destroyed.

Fuck! I told you already, there was one, and you (the west, not Ukraine) fucking rejected it. And you rejected it because your goal was to continue this attack on Russia from the start. Nobody cares about stupid idiots in Ukraine. Your fucking generals flat out admit that on TV, it's all about hurting Russia. Do you even watch your own TV with your own assholes in it?

If your side would simply remove your troops from Ukranian lands, the war would be over. Period, end of story.

No it would not be over. Because nazi regime you installed would continue (under your orders) terrorizing their pro-russian population.
The whole thing started with orders from Washington and London in 2014.

War will end when your side leaves Ukraine.
Again, piece of shit Elensky was ready to accept russian proposal but his Superiors ordered him not to.

 

[Jayjay]

Canada and America supplied Russia with materials and weapons in WWII, even though we were not allies.

Er, yes, you were.

I am flabbergasted that anyone who was alive in the C20th doesn't know this...

https://ru.usembassy.gov/world-war-ii-allies-u-s-lend-lease-to-the-soviet-union-1941-1945/

How can we be allies if we aren't yet in the conflict. Sure the US government had sentiments. It just didn't have alliances or treaties. We were non-combatant allies of Great Britain and because of this we were asked by the Brits to extend services to USSR. We did a favor but we weren't allies.

Yes, we're allies! We're not in direct combat against Russia. But we're sending arms to Ukraine, training their soldiers, helping their economy, using our cyber against Russia; anything that we can do short of starting a nuclear war we're doing. Meanwhile, through all this, Russia continues to demand fully unconditional Ukranian surrender before they'll talk. Unbelievable. Russia is self-destructing. And they have nonone to blame but themselves and Putler.

That's patently false. Russia was open to negotiations in March. But Boris Johnson said "No!!" Now it's actually fuhrer Elensky who demands unconditional surrender and free pass to North Korea in order to wage war on them. Not to mention american generals who are planning partition of Russia.

You are correct! Yes, your side was open to negotiations! All Ukraine had to do was "denaziify, de arm, and put all Ukranian leaders in concentration camps, and totally give in to total occupation to Russia troops. To this day, shocking that Zelensky laughed at these terms!

Well, ukrainian side was ready to accept terms which were reasonable.
It was Boris who said "No". Boris is an idiot.
Anyway, Russia does not and should not trust the West.
Your current crop of politicians is stupid scam, all of them.

What does Boris Johnson have to do with anything? He didn't make decisions for Ukraine, let alone Russia.

Yes, Ukraine was ready to accept reasonable terms (at least in terms of rejecting NATO membership), but Russia wasn't. Russia wanted land concessions beyond Crimea and Donbas as well. That's why the negotiations broke down.

Source:

Exclusive: As war began, Putin rejected a Ukraine peace deal recommended by aide

Putin's chief envoy on Ukraine told the Russian leader as the war began that he had struck a provisional deal with Kyiv that would satisfy Russia's demand that Ukraine stay out of NATO, but Putin rejected it and pressed ahead with his military campaign, according to three people close to the...

www.reuters.com

PARIS, Sept 14 (Reuters) - Vladimir Putin's chief envoy on Ukraine told the Russian leader as the war began that he had struck a provisional deal with Kyiv that would satisfy Russia's demand that Ukraine stay out of NATO, but Putin rejected it and pressed ahead with his military campaign, according to three people close to the Russian leadership.

The Ukrainian-born envoy, Dmitry Kozak, told Putin that he believed the deal he had hammered out removed the need for Russia to pursue a large-scale ]occupation of Ukraine, according to these sources. Kozak's recommendation to Putin to adopt the deal is being reported by Reuters for the first time.

Putin had repeatedly asserted prior to the war that NATO and its military infrastructure were creeping closer to Russia's borders by accepting new members from eastern Europe, and that the alliance was now preparing to bring Ukraine into its orbit too. Putin publicly said that represented an existential threat to Russia, forcing him to react.

But, despite earlier backing the negotiations, Putin made it clear when presented with Kozak's deal that the concessions negotiated by his aide did not go far enough and that he had expanded his objectives to include annexing swathes of Ukrainian territory, the sources said. The upshot: the deal was dropped.

It was never about NATO to Putin, but about imperialistic and nationalistic greed.

 

[barbos]

It was never about NATO to Putin, but about imperialistic and nationalistic greed.

I keep hearing this garbage theory.

 

[barbos]

What does Boris Johnson have to do with anything? He didn't make decisions for Ukraine, let alone Russia.

He totally did. Fiona Hill even admitted it.
Yes, Elensky could have easily rejected his orders. But him being piece of shit he is he is ....

 

[Jayjay]

So really you are saying that there is no compromise with Ukraine unless it is destroyed.

Fuck! I told you already, there was one, and you (the west, not Ukraine) fucking rejected it. And you rejected it because your goal (from the get-go) have been to continue this attack on Russia. Nobody cares about stupid idiots in Ukraine. Your fucking generals flat out admit that on TV, it's all about hurting Russia. Do you even watch your own TV with your own assholes in it?

What a bunch of bullshit. If any "generals" are "admitting" anything on tv, it's only that Russia needs to be hurt so they will withdraw and stop the war. Not hurt for its own sake. If Russia were to get the fuck out of Ukraine, or even negotiate Ukraine for some land concessions, the western countries would be fine with it. After Crimea, EU kept buying Russian gas and oil in the tune of trillions of Euros. Nobody wanted this shitty war, except Putin, and he only wanted it because he thought he could win in 3 days.

 

[barbos]

What a bunch of bullshit. If any "generals" are "admitting" anything on tv, it's only that Russia needs to be hurt so they will withdraw and stop the war.

Yes, hurt and hopefully destroy.
As far as Russia was concerned this war was unavoidable.
NATO has been exterminating Russian population in "Ukraine" for 8 years, hoping to provoke a response. This year it finally happened.
Unfortunately for you, you put all your money on an economic war and it utterly failed.

 

[Jayjay]

So really you are saying that there is no compromise with Ukraine unless it is destroyed.

Fuck! I told you already, there was one, and you (the west, not Ukraine) fucking rejected it. And you rejected it because your goal was to continue this attack on Russia from the start. Nobody cares about stupid idiots in Ukraine. Your fucking generals flat out admit that on TV, it's all about hurting Russia. Do you even watch your own TV with your own assholes in it?

If your side would simply remove your troops from Ukranian lands, the war would be over. Period, end of story.

No it would not be over. Because nazi regime you installed would continue (under your orders) terrorizing their pro-russian population.

Which is something that never happened. You're just repeating the lies of Russian propaganda. There was never any systematic "terror" against pro-Russian population. And if there was, it was instigated by Russia. Like the Odessa massacre that you like to bring up: it was Russian provocateurs and nazis who stirred the pot. And don't even start with the fabricated fairy tales that Russian propagandists made up, like crucifixion of some kid, or whatever else.

Funny how you never seem to find any evidence of the alleged genocide, yet you keep repeating the same old garbage.

The whole thing started with orders from Washington and London in 2014.

War will end when your side leaves Ukraine.
Again, piece of shit Elensky was ready to accept russian proposal but his Superiors ordered him not to.

Conspiracy theorist horse shit. Americans wanted Zelensky to run away to save his life, but he decided to stay. Obviously he's not taking orders from his "superiors", if anything, he's convinced them to give Ukraine hundreds of billions of dollars worth of weapons and other aid.

 

[barbos]

Nobody wanted this shitty war, except Putin, and he only wanted it because he thought he could win in 3 days.

Dude, I am more less aware of western propaganda points.
No need to repeat that garbage.