What has conservatism given America?

[laughing dog]

Time stamp 1:49. The left is no longer against the war machine in any way. Clinton, Obama, and Biden started wars. Trump did not.

Trump has started a war - you just don't realize it yet.

No matter which side you prefer its getting embarrassing IMO. And no matter which side your ideology, you can not deny the Democrats are turning the US into a "Banana Republic".

Coming from a Trump supporter, that is pretty ironic.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Conservatives certainly give credit to Reagan for the fall of Soviet communism, but the USSR crumbled from causes (including fiscal rot) that were catalogued in journalism going back to the late 60s. If you subscribed to a reasonably thorough news weekly in those pre-Reagan years (my choice was Newsweek, a great mag in its time), you knew that the regime was teetering.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

It was not an insurrection either, it was simply a protest with some violent elements. If this was really an insurrection like the Democrats claim, ask yourself what really would have happened even if they had been successful stopping congress? Not much. Biden would still be president, they just would have had to do a little more due process with the vote counting before he was sworn in.

Why would fake electors vote for Biden?

 

[laughing dog]

Conservatism is a force that makes potential progress occur at a slower pace. Being forced to think and defend one's views is valuable. It helps to refine and improve those ideas and policies. It is possible that conservatism helps defeat or defang bad progressive ideas.

 

[RVonse]

I love this Orwellian idea that the people who tried to overturn the goverment and stop a duly elected president from being certified and sworn in are “dissenters.” Oh, so nicely sanitized! I suppose someone who murders black people because they are black, which happens appallingly often and just happened again a couple of days ago, are also “dissenters.” Dissenters against what? Surely they are not racist psychos. That’s so harsh! No, in good Orwellian fashion, we shall call them “dissenters against woke ideology, BLM and Antifa.”

It was not an insurrection either, it was simply a protest with some violent elements. If this was really an insurrection like the Democrats claim, ask yourself what really would have happened even if they had been successful stopping congress? Not much. Biden would still be president, they just would have had to do a little more due process with the vote counting before he was sworn in.

And what would more due process have accomplished?

A lot. All sides would have seen better the integrity or non-integrity of the election with data. Changing hearts and minds of the losing camp instead of dismissing a close election out of hand. That same kind of fairness and due process we expect from our justice system as to at least present a verdict that appears just and proper with no further arguing.

 

[TomC]

A lot. All sides would have seen better the integrity or non-integrity of the election with data. Changing hearts and minds of the losing camp instead of dismissing a close election out of hand. That same kind of fairness and due process we expect from our justice system as to at least present a verdict that appears just and proper with no further arguing.

You don't seem to understand how the USA chooses a POTUS.
Similarly, upthread, you suggested that you thought the demonstration/insurrection was directed against Congress. It wasn't.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

fascism

făsh′ĭz″əm

noun​

1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator,

Lets weaponize the law with the FBI to get rid of another political opponent.

1) Your side was the one that weaponized it to get His Flatulence elected.

2) What we are seeing now is not weaponization, but simply justice catching up with his misdeeds. We've been telling you he did wrong, now we are seeing the prosecutors bringing the charges on what we have talked about for years.

91 indictments right before a POTUS election?

We have elections every 4 years! It'd be impossible to have a trial that isn't around an election.

And look at the timing and location of the trials (where they voted 90% Biden) Loren.

The trials are held where the crime is generally committed.

Today the absence of law in the United States government presents the United States to the world as an insane asylum in which either American voters are so incompetent as to elect and reelect a hardened criminal to the Presidency (hardly a recommendation for democracy) or the Democrats are so lawless that they will not permit an honest election to keep them from power and, therefore, weaponize law in order to destroy their political opponent.

People died directly as a result of the actions of Trump's supporters on January 6th, who were riled into a frenzy by Trump and his allies that morning. He also tried to get people to commit crimes so he could manipulate the electoral college in Congress.

No matter which side you prefer its getting embarrassing IMO. And no matter which side your ideology, you can not deny the Democrats are turning the US into a "Banana Republic".

Trump tried to overthrow an election.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I love this Orwellian idea that the people who tried to overturn the goverment and stop a duly elected president from being certified and sworn in are “dissenters.” Oh, so nicely sanitized! I suppose someone who murders black people because they are black, which happens appallingly often and just happened again a couple of days ago, are also “dissenters.” Dissenters against what? Surely they are not racist psychos. That’s so harsh! No, in good Orwellian fashion, we shall call them “dissenters against woke ideology, BLM and Antifa.”

It was not an insurrection either, it was simply a protest with some violent elements. If this was really an insurrection like the Democrats claim, ask yourself what really would have happened even if they had been successful stopping congress? Not much. Biden would still be president, they just would have had to do a little more due process with the vote counting before he was sworn in.

And what would more due process have accomplished?

A lot. All sides would have seen better the integrity or non-integrity of the election with data.

You don't want data. If you did, you'd notice the exit polls, which worked out for the most part. The best part of a conspiracy is one can just kick the can of denial down the road a little further.

Let's look at Exit Polls.

Exit Polls had a skew, but were accurate. Indicated Ohio, Florida wins for Trump, WI, MI wins for Biden.

Then we can see here where it is apparent that Biden won Arizona.

Yes, I'm citing my own posts here from Election night. And my statements were generally accurate.

And now onto Georgia.

So please, don't give us the "data" line. The data on election night looked positive to Biden winning.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Oh, one more link... Georgia. It is where I show the math indicating how Biden would win by around 12,000 votes the day after the election.

Hmm... a few more posts down a rather prophetic post of mine.

Trump can challenge Georgia all he wants. If they can't certify a vote, he's fucked. Biden doesn't need Georgia, it just makes it harder for Trump to fuck with the Electoral College.

 

[pood]

Clinton, Obama, and Biden started wars. Trump did not.

They did? Which ones? Name them.

Clinton orderred bombing in the Balkans during a vicious civil war to deter a genocide. No ground wars started anywhere. Obama started no wars anywhere, but wound down the two wars that Republican George W. Bush started. Did you forget them, and him? Finally, Biden has started no wars, anywhere. If you are going to argue that Biden somehow “started” the war in Ukraine, you are utterly delusional and frankly a figure of derision, to be mocked and laughed at.

And, incidentally, Trump wanted to militarily attack both Venezuela and Iran and the poor, deluded nincompoop had to be talked down from doing so by his advisers. Current Republican candidates are making noises about starting a war with Mexico. You know nothing about anything.

 

[bilby]

Can conservatism take credit for the rapid collapse of communism back in the late '80's and early '90's? Some might say that was a good thing for the world (though I know many of you pinko commie bastards would disagree ).

No, that wasn't conservatism, it was consumerism.

The USSR collapsed because the people of the Warsaw Pact nations wanted Levis jeans and Coca-Cola and McDonalds hamburgers.

 

[ZiprHead]

I think this is appropriate here.

He starts out saying he was against the Viet Nam war.....ok. Then he says the right has gone much further right because they are the party of war? Who started the war in Ukraine? Who wants to end that war? Talk about cognitive dissonance reached to a new level..... My head is spinning with all this bull shit. Who is the POTUS who just got his ass handed to him by the people of Maui for NOT giving a shit about them and clearing the way for more billions to Ukraine?

Just to be clear it is obvious both sides favor the military complex but it is the Democrats who are much more on board with war today.

This tells me you didn't actually watch the video, just pretending you did.

No where in the video is the above bolded ever said, not even close, which makes the rest of your rant bullshit.

Time stamp 1:49. The left is no longer against the war machine in any way. Clinton, Obama, and Biden started wars. Trump did not.

Bullshit again. It does not say anything like "Then he says the right has gone much further right because they are the party of war? " at any time stamp.

 

[Elixir]

If you are going to argue that Biden somehow “started” the war in Ukraine, you are utterly delusional and frankly a figure of derision, to be mocked and laughed at.

You been takin’ smart pills, or what?

It is amazing how RW extremists can make shit up out of whole cloth and serve it up with a straight face. I’d pay good money to know where @RVonse got that whopper about Obama and Biden starting wars. Did he make it up all by himself, or is he regurgitating garbage that he swallowed unquestioningly from one of his polluted “sources”? Does he even pay any attention to what presidents do, or does he just take Hannity’s word for it?

 

[pood]

If you are going to argue that Biden somehow “started” the war in Ukraine, you are utterly delusional and frankly a figure of derision, to be mocked and laughed at.

You been takin’ smart pills, or what?

It is amazing how RW extremists can make shit up out of whole cloth and serve it up with a straight face. I’d pay good money to know where @RVonse got that whopper about Obama and Biden starting wars. Did he make it up all by himself, or is he regurgitating garbage that he swallowed unquestioningly from one of his polluted “sources”? Does he even pay any attention to what presidents do, or does he just take Hannity’s word for it?

He takes Hannity’s word for it. These people live in a delusional alternate reality engineered by the right-wing media hate machine.

 

[TomC]

Trump tried to overthrow an election.

Which should be, and once was, a capital crime.

Then there's the stolen documents outlining U.S. military strategies. That was a capital crime for the Rosenbergs.

I'm pretty a hardcore ProLifer. I generally don't approve of state sanctioned killing.
But yeah, I'd be(morally) okay with Trump in front of a firing squad on TV.

Call me a conservative if you must.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

I love this Orwellian idea that the people who tried to overturn the goverment and stop a duly elected president from being certified and sworn in are “dissenters.” Oh, so nicely sanitized! I suppose someone who murders black people because they are black, which happens appallingly often and just happened again a couple of days ago, are also “dissenters.” Dissenters against what? Surely they are not racist psychos. That’s so harsh! No, in good Orwellian fashion, we shall call them “dissenters against woke ideology, BLM and Antifa.”

It was not an insurrection either, it was simply a protest with some violent elements. If this was really an insurrection like the Democrats claim, ask yourself what really would have happened even if they had been successful stopping congress? Not much. Biden would still be president, they just would have had to do a little more due process with the vote counting before he was sworn in.

And what would more due process have accomplished?

A lot. All sides would have seen better the integrity or non-integrity of the election with data. Changing hearts and minds of the losing camp instead of dismissing a close election out of hand. That same kind of fairness and due process we expect from our justice system as to at least present a verdict that appears just and proper with no further arguing.

What actual data is there that challenges the integrity of the election? All of the challenges to the integrity of election are unproven (to date) allegations. Allegations are not data.

 

[TomC]

What actual data is there that challenges the integrity of the election? All of the challenges to the integrity of election are unproven (to date) allegations. Allegations are not data.

Even more to the point,
The Electoral College was attacked by Trump supporters 2 months after the election. They all had literally months to provide data showing significant challenges to the integrity of the election.

There were multiple court dates. Never once did anyone produce anything beyond vague, unsubstantiated, allegations. To this day, nobody has produced any. Most of what small irregularities were discovered were Trump supporters trying to cheat the system.

The information is out there and easily available. But there are none so blind as he who will not see.
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

What actual data is there that challenges the integrity of the election? All of the challenges to the integrity of election are unproven (to date) allegations. Allegations are not data.

Even more to the point,
The Electoral College was attacked by Trump supporters 2 months after the election. They all had literally months to provide data showing significant challenges to the integrity of the election.

There were multiple court dates. Never once did anyone produce anything beyond vague, unsubstantiated, allegations. To this day, nobody has produced any. Most of what small irregularities were discovered were Trump supporters trying to cheat the system.

The information is out there and easily available. But there are none so blind as he who will not see.
Tom

Rusty Bowers says Giuliani told him: ‘We’ve got lots of theories, we just don’t have the evidence’

Arizona House Speaker Rusty Bowers (R) on Tuesday said he repeatedly pressed Rudy Giuliani for proof of his claims of election fraud after the 2020 election, but added that Giuliani failed to produ…

thehill.com

Rusty Bowers says Giuliani told him: ‘We’ve got lots of theories, we just don’t have the evidence’​

 

[Harry Bosch]

I love this Orwellian idea that the people who tried to overturn the goverment and stop a duly elected president from being certified and sworn in are “dissenters.” Oh, so nicely sanitized! I suppose someone who murders black people because they are black, which happens appallingly often and just happened again a couple of days ago, are also “dissenters.” Dissenters against what? Surely they are not racist psychos. That’s so harsh! No, in good Orwellian fashion, we shall call them “dissenters against woke ideology, BLM and Antifa.”

It was not an insurrection either, it was simply a protest with some violent elements. If this was really an insurrection like the Democrats claim, ask yourself what really would have happened even if they had been successful stopping congress? Not much. Biden would still be president, they just would have had to do a little more due process with the vote counting before he was sworn in.

And what would more due process have accomplished?

A lot. All sides would have seen better the integrity or non-integrity of the election with data. Changing hearts and minds of the losing camp instead of dismissing a close election out of hand. That same kind of fairness and due process we expect from our justice system as to at least present a verdict that appears just and proper with no further arguing.

I would be very in favor of changing the voting laws to make them more transparent and eliminate possible miscounts. HOWEVER, would it be too much to ask your side to change the voting laws BEFORE the election??! I'm sorry, but we followed the constitutionally mandated laws in electing Biden in 2020. Period. Were you in favor of changing the voting laws to add more time in 2000 when Bush beat Gore by a few votes in Florida? You want to make the voting laws more fair - great. Wahoo. Lets do it BEFORE the next election. Is that really too much to ask? To try the change the election laws or subvert them is something that only done banana republics.

 

[Ford]

Conservatives certainly give credit to Reagan for the fall of Soviet communism, but the USSR crumbled from causes (including fiscal rot) that were catalogued in journalism going back to the late 60s. If you subscribed to a reasonably thorough news weekly in those pre-Reagan years (my choice was Newsweek, a great mag in its time), you knew that the regime was teetering.

Reminds me of something a professor said when I was in college back in the mid to late 80s (graduated in 87). A student asked a question about possible career paths for a history major. If I remember correctly, he said "go to business school, and learn to speak Russian."

We were like "yeah...but they're communist, and...."

He said "trust me."

People who were paying attention saw the collapse of the USSR coming. Was this guy giving good career advice? Well he thought it would become a free market and didn't predict the oligarchy taking over, but still...he wasn't entirely wrong for 1987.