Politics Where are you really from?

[Metaphor]

[


And this particular story I resonate with. I have lived experience of being in Fulani's position. So I know there is no way she can have been confused or mistaken about what Hussey was asking her.

Wow, I didn’t realise you are a black woman.

How sad for you.

Not as sad as some white guy claiming he has lived the same experience as a black woman so he knows what she cannot be mistaken or confused. Really, do you read what you write?

No, I did not claim I had lived the life of this particular black woman, or any black woman. I claimed I have lived through the same type of exchange she reported. I've been in her position, in this context, on the 'where do you come from' conversation.

No, you claimed to be in the same position. You ought to know that because you wrote that.

Yes, in the same position. The position is 'on the receiving end of an enquiry about my ethnic and cultural heritage'.

But, you knew that.

I knew what you wrote. I know you feel you can accurately impute what must have been in people’s mind. I responded to your actual words.You are responsible for your words.

Of course I am. And you are responsible for your strawman mischaracterisations of my words.

 

[TomC]

No, you claimed to be in the same position. You ought to know that because you wrote that.

I read he wrote as well.
It wasn't that.

You really had to struggle to misunderstand that.
But hey, Metaphor is a white male. Obviously he must be wrong.
Tom

 

[Toni]

I cannot understand why it matters to you that Fulani’s dress was not stereotypically ‘British.’

Can you explain it to me in a way that doesn’t sound like racism?

I've already explained. In the OP. I will quote myself:

Fulani was dressed in clothing that was obviously not of native British style or design, and even changed her name from Marlene Headley to Ngozi Fulani. She obviously wants to make a point of her non-Anglo heritage.

And then Fulani, in my opinion, deliberately missed the point when someone enquired after her obviously non-Anglo heritage.

Yes, she DID because such inquiries were irrelevant to the occasion and frankly personal and definitely racist. There is no need to treat such inquiries as meriting any direct response. Indeed, she showed great forbearance in attempting to supply a response that allowed Lady Hussey to recover from a racist faux pas with grace and dignity.

 

[Metaphor]

And this particular story I resonate with. I have lived experience of being in Fulani's position. So I know there is no way she can have been confused or mistaken about what Hussey was asking her.

What does her lack of confusion have to do with determining whether she is somehow at fault for how she handled the arrogantly rude lady interrogating her about her ancestry, citizenship and identification of “from”?

So, yes, maybe she knew Hussey was being a bigoted jerk by pressing her on whether she was “really British”.

What? In what way did Hussey's line of questioning assume Fulani was not "really British"?

When people ask me where I'm from, are they assuming I'm not "really Australian"?

How does that make her response wrong?

The response she gave is correct either way.
If she’s confused, “what? I’m from here.”
If she’s not confused and she knows Hussey is being racist, “what? I’m from here.”

Hussey wasn't being racist. It is not racist to enquire about somebody ethnic and cultural heritage.

 

[Rhea]

I cannot understand why it matters to you that Fulani’s dress was not stereotypically ‘British.’

Can you explain it to me in a way that doesn’t sound like racism?

I've already explained. In the OP. I will quote myself:

Fulani was dressed in clothing that was obviously not of native British style or design, and even changed her name from Marlene Headley to Ngozi Fulani. She obviously wants to make a point of her non-Anglo heritage.

And then Fulani, in my opinion, deliberately missed the point when someone enquired after her obviously non-Anglo heritage.

That outfit is *NOT* “obviously not of native British Style or Design.” I know you go to nightclubs and II can’t imagine you NOT encountering that style of outfit before. I’ve certaibnly seen outfits like, my kids own outfits like that. I see American kids in school with outfits like that.

That’s a fancy outfit with some sequins and a leopard print. ANd a cool necklace. I would definitely **NOT** assume “foreign” if I saw that outfit.

 

[Toni]

[


And this particular story I resonate with. I have lived experience of being in Fulani's position. So I know there is no way she can have been confused or mistaken about what Hussey was asking her.

Wow, I didn’t realise you are a black woman.

How sad for you.

LD does a great job of expressing the racism that Rulz, don't you think?
Tom

Still not relevant.

Sorry I didn't mention you in the credit.
Tom

Would not have added any relevance whatsoever.

 

[Rhea]

Not as sad as some white guy claiming he has lived the same experience as a black woman so he knows what she cannot be mistaken or confused. Really, do you read what you write?

No, I did not claim I had lived the life of this particular black woman, or any black woman. I claimed I have lived through the same type of exchange she reported. I've been in her position, in this context, on the 'where do you come from' conversation.

But, you knew that.

The point you’re missing (is this where we accuse you of obviously knowing better, as you did for Fulani?)
Is that the implications of that exchange for you do not have the history of the same exchange for her.

Do you not know that?

 

[Toni]

I cannot understand why it matters to you that Fulani’s dress was not stereotypically ‘British.’

Can you explain it to me in a way that doesn’t sound like racism?

I've already explained. In the OP. I will quote myself:

Fulani was dressed in clothing that was obviously not of native British style or design, and even changed her name from Marlene Headley to Ngozi Fulani. She obviously wants to make a point of her non-Anglo heritage.

And then Fulani, in my opinion, deliberately missed the point when someone enquired after her obviously non-Anglo heritage.

That outfit is *NOT* “obviously not of native British Style or Design.” I know you go to nightclubs and II can’t imagine you NOT encountering that style of outfit before. I’ve certaibnly seen outfits like, my kids own outfits like that. I see American kids in school with outfits like that.

That’s a fancy outfit with some sequins and a leopard print. ANd a cool necklace. I would definitely **NOT** assume “foreign” if I saw that outfit.

And even if you DID assume 'foreign' I sincerely doubt you would be so rude as to remark on it.

There are ways to make polite and even complimentary remarks about someone's dress, although a professional occasion is usually not the best place to do so.

 

[Metaphor]

I cannot understand why it matters to you that Fulani’s dress was not stereotypically ‘British.’

Can you explain it to me in a way that doesn’t sound like racism?

I've already explained. In the OP. I will quote myself:

Fulani was dressed in clothing that was obviously not of native British style or design, and even changed her name from Marlene Headley to Ngozi Fulani. She obviously wants to make a point of her non-Anglo heritage.

And then Fulani, in my opinion, deliberately missed the point when someone enquired after her obviously non-Anglo heritage.

Yes, she DID because such inquiries were irrelevant to the occasion and frankly personal and definitely racist.

Irrelevant? Fulani was there representing a charity that assists women of African and Caribbean descent.

Your characterisation of it as 'definitely racist' is not obvious to me. Why was it 'definitely racist'?

There is no need to treat such inquiries as meriting any direct response. Indeed, she showed great forbearance in attempting to supply a response that allowed Lady Hussey to recover from a racist faux pas with grace and dignity.

It is racist now to enquire after the ethnic and cultural heritage of somebody you are speaking to?

 

[Rhea]

What? In what way did Hussey's line of questioning assume Fulani was not "really British"?

Really?

This one:

SH: Well, you must know where you're from, I spent time in France. Where are you from?
Me: Here, the UK.
SH: No, but what nationality are you?
Me: I am born here and am British.
SH: No, but where do you really come from,

Start with the repeated use of the word, “no”

 

[Metaphor]

Not as sad as some white guy claiming he has lived the same experience as a black woman so he knows what she cannot be mistaken or confused. Really, do you read what you write?

No, I did not claim I had lived the life of this particular black woman, or any black woman. I claimed I have lived through the same type of exchange she reported. I've been in her position, in this context, on the 'where do you come from' conversation.

But, you knew that.

The point you’re missing (is this where we accuse you of obviously knowing better, as you did for Fulani?)
Is that the implications of that exchange for you do not have the history of the same exchange for her.

Do you not know that?

If anything, Fulani has been on the receiving end of such exchanges more times than I have. She is older than I am and in a more heavily Anglo country than Australia, and her name and skin colour marks her as not indigenous to Britain. For me, my non-Angloness is recognised usually only after someone hears or sees my name. So, I would expect her to even sooner recognise what Hussey was asking her.

Fulani chose to act as if she didn't understand what Hussey was asking her, in my opinion. She made a mountain out of a molehill. I do not believe enquiring after somebody's cultural and ethnic heritage is racist, but I do believe Hussey should have recognised far sooner Fulani did not want to answer, and her persistence in her line of questioning was unwelcome and rude,.

 

[Metaphor]

What? In what way did Hussey's line of questioning assume Fulani was not "really British"?

Really?

This one:

SH: Well, you must know where you're from, I spent time in France. Where are you from?
Me: Here, the UK.
SH: No, but what nationality are you?
Me: I am born here and am British.
SH: No, but where do you really come from,

Start with the repeated use of the word, “no”

Hussey's line of questioning was poor, I have not denied that. What Hussey wanted to know was 'what is your ethnic and cultural heritage'.

Also, this is taking Fulani's apparent total recall at face value. I believe most of the conversation would have been 'reconstructed' rather than remembered.

 

[laughing dog]

No, you claimed to be in the same position. You ought to know that because you wrote that.

I read he wrote as well.
It wasn't that.

You are deeply mistrajen

You really had to struggle to misunderstand that.
But hey, Metaphor is a white male. Obviously he must be wrong.
Tom

That chip on your shoulder is really interfering with your reason.

 

[laughing dog]

Not as sad as some white guy claiming he has lived the same experience as a black woman so he knows what she cannot be mistaken or confused. Really, do you read what you write?

No, I did not claim I had lived the life of this particular black woman, or any black woman. I claimed I have lived through the same type of exchange she reported. I've been in her position, in this context, on the 'where do you come from' conversation.

But, you knew that.

The point you’re missing (is this where we accuse you of obviously knowing better, as you did for Fulani?)
Is that the implications of that exchange for you do not have the history of the same exchange for her.

Do you not know that?

If anything, Fulani has been on the receiving end of such exchanges more times than I have. She is older than I am and in a more heavily Anglo country than Australia, and her name and skin colour marks her as not indigenous to Britain. For me, my non-Angloness is recognised usually only after someone hears or sees my name. So, I would expect her to even sooner recognise what Hussey was asking her.

Fulani chose to act as if she didn't understand what Hussey was asking her, in my opinion. She made a mountain out of a molehill. I do not believe enquiring after somebody's cultural and ethnic heritage is racist, but I do believe Hussey should have recognised far sooner Fulani did not want to answer, and her persistence in her line of questioning was unwelcome and rude,.

Fulani isn’t the only one making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[Rhea]

Irrelevant? Fulani was there representing a charity that assists women of African and Caribbean descent.

Your characterisation of it as 'definitely racist' is not obvious to me. Why was it 'definitely racist'?

And she answered that she could not say where in Africa because they did not keep records. So any further badgering was beyond rude and achingly out of touch for not reflecting on WHY no records were kept.

 

[TomC]

What? In what way did Hussey's line of questioning assume Fulani was not "really British"?

Really?

This one:

SH: Well, you must know where you're from, I spent time in France. Where are you from?
Me: Here, the UK.
SH: No, but what nationality are you?
Me: I am born here and am British.
SH: No, but where do you really come from,

Start with the repeated use of the word, “no”

If someone recounted DJ Trump's recollection of a tense conversation, would you be so quick to take it verbatim?
Tom

 

[Toni]

I cannot understand why it matters to you that Fulani’s dress was not stereotypically ‘British.’

Can you explain it to me in a way that doesn’t sound like racism?

I've already explained. In the OP. I will quote myself:

Fulani was dressed in clothing that was obviously not of native British style or design, and even changed her name from Marlene Headley to Ngozi Fulani. She obviously wants to make a point of her non-Anglo heritage.

And then Fulani, in my opinion, deliberately missed the point when someone enquired after her obviously non-Anglo heritage.

Yes, she DID because such inquiries were irrelevant to the occasion and frankly personal and definitely racist.

Irrelevant? Fulani was there representing a charity that assists women of African and Caribbean descent.

Your characterisation of it as 'definitely racist' is not obvious to me. Why was it 'definitely racist'?

There is no need to treat such inquiries as meriting any direct response. Indeed, she showed great forbearance in attempting to supply a response that allowed Lady Hussey to recover from a racist faux pas with grace and dignity.

It is racist now to enquire after the ethnic and cultural heritage of somebody you are speaking to?

In a professional setting? Yes. It is.

 

[Metaphor]

Irrelevant? Fulani was there representing a charity that assists women of African and Caribbean descent.

Your characterisation of it as 'definitely racist' is not obvious to me. Why was it 'definitely racist'?

And she answered that she could not say where in Africa because they did not keep records. So any further badgering was beyond rude and achingly out of touch for not reflecting on WHY no records were kept.

I said Hussey was rude and out of touch in my OP. She seemed oblivious to the signals Fulani was sending her.

 

[Rhea]

Fulani chose to act as if she didn't understand what Hussey was asking her, in my opinion

Right… and deflecting while pretending and allowing them to leave having NOT been called out for being rude is the standard norm of what to do when someone is being unconscionably rude.


She did everything right from a social norms perspective.

 

[Metaphor]

I cannot understand why it matters to you that Fulani’s dress was not stereotypically ‘British.’

Can you explain it to me in a way that doesn’t sound like racism?

I've already explained. In the OP. I will quote myself:

Fulani was dressed in clothing that was obviously not of native British style or design, and even changed her name from Marlene Headley to Ngozi Fulani. She obviously wants to make a point of her non-Anglo heritage.

And then Fulani, in my opinion, deliberately missed the point when someone enquired after her obviously non-Anglo heritage.

Yes, she DID because such inquiries were irrelevant to the occasion and frankly personal and definitely racist.

Irrelevant? Fulani was there representing a charity that assists women of African and Caribbean descent.

Your characterisation of it as 'definitely racist' is not obvious to me. Why was it 'definitely racist'?

There is no need to treat such inquiries as meriting any direct response. Indeed, she showed great forbearance in attempting to supply a response that allowed Lady Hussey to recover from a racist faux pas with grace and dignity.

It is racist now to enquire after the ethnic and cultural heritage of somebody you are speaking to?

In a professional setting? Yes. It is.

Um, okay.

My boss is Vietnamese-born and always enquires after the ethnic and cultural heritage of members of his team (only one person in the team is obviously Anglo-origin). Should I snitch to HR about his crass racism?