Politics Where are you really from?

[Toni]

Sure Jan.

Two women are rude to one another and your OP goes after the black woman because of “cultural purchase that racist micro aggressions have in Anglosphere”. Sure Jan, you’re just balancing the scales.

The focus of my OP only gets more and more justification with each response on here.

It’s really more that you become more entrenched and implacable.

 

[Metaphor]

I cannot understand why it matters to you that Fulani’s dress was not stereotypically ‘British.’

Can you explain it to me in a way that doesn’t sound like racism?

I've already explained. In the OP. I will quote myself:

Fulani was dressed in clothing that was obviously not of native British style or design, and even changed her name from Marlene Headley to Ngozi Fulani. She obviously wants to make a point of her non-Anglo heritage.

And then Fulani, in my opinion, deliberately missed the point when someone enquired after her obviously non-Anglo heritage.

Yes, she DID because such inquiries were irrelevant to the occasion and frankly personal and definitely racist.

Irrelevant? Fulani was there representing a charity that assists women of African and Caribbean descent.

Your characterisation of it as 'definitely racist' is not obvious to me. Why was it 'definitely racist'?

There is no need to treat such inquiries as meriting any direct response. Indeed, she showed great forbearance in attempting to supply a response that allowed Lady Hussey to recover from a racist faux pas with grace and dignity.

It is racist now to enquire after the ethnic and cultural heritage of somebody you are speaking to?

In a professional setting? Yes. It is.

Um, okay.

My boss is Vietnamese-born and always enquires after the ethnic and cultural heritage of members of his team (only one person in the team is obviously Anglo-origin). Should I snitch to HR about his crass racism?

I don’t know. Does he imply that the non-Anglo members are t really Australian?

I don't know how he would imply someone isn't "really" Australian. He never enquires about citizenship, since you have to be an Australian citizen to work in the public service. He enquires about what country they came from or if they were born in Australia, what their ethnic heritage is. He certainly asked me those questions.

Well, Lady Hussey reportedly asked Fulani where she was ‘really’ from. Clear implication that Fulani isn’t ‘really’ British.

Hussey wanted to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural heritage, which was not British but something else.

 

[Toni]

I cannot understand why it matters to you that Fulani’s dress was not stereotypically ‘British.’

Can you explain it to me in a way that doesn’t sound like racism?

I've already explained. In the OP. I will quote myself:

Fulani was dressed in clothing that was obviously not of native British style or design, and even changed her name from Marlene Headley to Ngozi Fulani. She obviously wants to make a point of her non-Anglo heritage.

And then Fulani, in my opinion, deliberately missed the point when someone enquired after her obviously non-Anglo heritage.

Yes, she DID because such inquiries were irrelevant to the occasion and frankly personal and definitely racist.

Irrelevant? Fulani was there representing a charity that assists women of African and Caribbean descent.

Your characterisation of it as 'definitely racist' is not obvious to me. Why was it 'definitely racist'?

There is no need to treat such inquiries as meriting any direct response. Indeed, she showed great forbearance in attempting to supply a response that allowed Lady Hussey to recover from a racist faux pas with grace and dignity.

It is racist now to enquire after the ethnic and cultural heritage of somebody you are speaking to?

In a professional setting? Yes. It is.

Um, okay.

My boss is Vietnamese-born and always enquires after the ethnic and cultural heritage of members of his team (only one person in the team is obviously Anglo-origin). Should I snitch to HR about his crass racism?

I don’t know. Does he imply that the non-Anglo members are t really Australian?

I don't know how he would imply someone isn't "really" Australian. He never enquires about citizenship, since you have to be an Australian citizen to work in the public service. He enquires about what country they came from or if they were born in Australia, what their ethnic heritage is. He certainly asked me those questions.

Well, Lady Hussey reportedly asked Fulani where she was ‘really’ from. Clear implication that Fulani isn’t ‘really’ British.

Hussey wanted to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural heritage, which was not British but something else.

1. Why was that her business to ask, in a professional setting no less?
2. Why did she ask where she was’really’ from?

 

[Metaphor]

Frankly, I don't see how contradicting someone when they tell you where they are from, and demanding a "real" answer, could be seen as anything other than extremely rude. Like, accusing people of lying at all is rude, let alone about something as conversationally trivial but personally important as one's place of birth.

If there weren't a racial element, the conversation would be baffling. "Where are you from?" "Chicago" "No where are you REALLY from" is a conversation only ever had between a white person and a non-white, because it would not make sense to randomly accuse someone of lying about their place of origin unless you're a racist trying to make someone feel out of place.

So, when I've had the same conversation hundreds of times in my life, but I'm white, what are the people trying to do to me?

Really now? Because you're white, people rudely insist that you're "really" from England and thus do not belong?

No. People ask where I come from when they hear my non-Anglo name. Now, at this point, I know what they are asking me. They are not asking me: what city in Australia were you born in? They are asking me: what is your ethnic and cultural heritage. I tend to answer both questions in my response, and so either way, they are satisfied.

White people, even in white-majority countries, are often asked where they came from. If you are white but with a non-Australian accent, I would ask you where you came from. (I'm sure Canadians get a bit pissed off when they are mistaken for American, but that's the Canadian problem for not having a distinctive enough accent). If you are white with an Australian accent but with a marked name (anything other than bog standard Anglo-Celtic), I would also probably ask your ethnic and cultural heritage.

When people ask, I rarely think they are asking because they think I do not belong. They are asking because it is likely that my recent ethnic and cultural heritage is not Australian, and they're curious, or perhaps not even curious but are making polite small talk.

 

[Metaphor]

I cannot understand why it matters to you that Fulani’s dress was not stereotypically ‘British.’

Can you explain it to me in a way that doesn’t sound like racism?

I've already explained. In the OP. I will quote myself:

Fulani was dressed in clothing that was obviously not of native British style or design, and even changed her name from Marlene Headley to Ngozi Fulani. She obviously wants to make a point of her non-Anglo heritage.

And then Fulani, in my opinion, deliberately missed the point when someone enquired after her obviously non-Anglo heritage.

Yes, she DID because such inquiries were irrelevant to the occasion and frankly personal and definitely racist.

Irrelevant? Fulani was there representing a charity that assists women of African and Caribbean descent.

Your characterisation of it as 'definitely racist' is not obvious to me. Why was it 'definitely racist'?

There is no need to treat such inquiries as meriting any direct response. Indeed, she showed great forbearance in attempting to supply a response that allowed Lady Hussey to recover from a racist faux pas with grace and dignity.

It is racist now to enquire after the ethnic and cultural heritage of somebody you are speaking to?

In a professional setting? Yes. It is.

Um, okay.

My boss is Vietnamese-born and always enquires after the ethnic and cultural heritage of members of his team (only one person in the team is obviously Anglo-origin). Should I snitch to HR about his crass racism?

I don’t know. Does he imply that the non-Anglo members are t really Australian?

I don't know how he would imply someone isn't "really" Australian. He never enquires about citizenship, since you have to be an Australian citizen to work in the public service. He enquires about what country they came from or if they were born in Australia, what their ethnic heritage is. He certainly asked me those questions.

Well, Lady Hussey reportedly asked Fulani where she was ‘really’ from. Clear implication that Fulani isn’t ‘really’ British.

Hussey wanted to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural heritage, which was not British but something else.

1. Why was that her business to ask, in a professional setting no less?

It wasn't her "business" to ask. I expect she asked because she was curious.

2. Why did she ask where she was’really’ from?

Because Hussey was oblivious to Fulani's social signals, and kept asking the question in different ways.

 

[Politesse]

Frankly, I don't see how contradicting someone when they tell you where they are from, and demanding a "real" answer, could be seen as anything other than extremely rude. Like, accusing people of lying at all is rude, let alone about something as conversationally trivial but personally important as one's place of birth.

If there weren't a racial element, the conversation would be baffling. "Where are you from?" "Chicago" "No where are you REALLY from" is a conversation only ever had between a white person and a non-white, because it would not make sense to randomly accuse someone of lying about their place of origin unless you're a racist trying to make someone feel out of place.

So, when I've had the same conversation hundreds of times in my life, but I'm white, what are the people trying to do to me?

Really now? Because you're white, people rudely insist that you're "really" from England and thus do not belong?

No. People ask where I come from when they hear my non-Anglo name. Now, at this point, I know what they are asking me. They are not asking me: what city in Australia were you born in? They are asking me: what is your ethnic and cultural heritage. I tend to answer both questions in my response, and so either way, they are satisfied.

White people, even in white-majority countries, are often asked where they came from. If you are white but with a non-Australian accent, I would ask you where you came from. (I'm sure Canadians get a bit pissed off when they are mistaken for American, but that's the Canadian problem for not having a distinctive enough accent). If you are white with an Australian accent but with a marked name (anything other than bog standard Anglo-Celtic), I would also probably ask your ethnic and cultural heritage.

When people ask, I rarely think they are asking because they think I do not belong. They are asking because it is likely that my recent ethnic and cultural heritage is not Australian, and they're curious, or perhaps not even curious but are making polite small talk.

Then you don't know what the hell you're talking about, do you? You've never had a remotely similar social experience.

 

[Toni]

I cannot understand why it matters to you that Fulani’s dress was not stereotypically ‘British.’

Can you explain it to me in a way that doesn’t sound like racism?

I've already explained. In the OP. I will quote myself:

Fulani was dressed in clothing that was obviously not of native British style or design, and even changed her name from Marlene Headley to Ngozi Fulani. She obviously wants to make a point of her non-Anglo heritage.

And then Fulani, in my opinion, deliberately missed the point when someone enquired after her obviously non-Anglo heritage.

Yes, she DID because such inquiries were irrelevant to the occasion and frankly personal and definitely racist.

Irrelevant? Fulani was there representing a charity that assists women of African and Caribbean descent.

Your characterisation of it as 'definitely racist' is not obvious to me. Why was it 'definitely racist'?

There is no need to treat such inquiries as meriting any direct response. Indeed, she showed great forbearance in attempting to supply a response that allowed Lady Hussey to recover from a racist faux pas with grace and dignity.

It is racist now to enquire after the ethnic and cultural heritage of somebody you are speaking to?

In a professional setting? Yes. It is.

Um, okay.

My boss is Vietnamese-born and always enquires after the ethnic and cultural heritage of members of his team (only one person in the team is obviously Anglo-origin). Should I snitch to HR about his crass racism?

I don’t know. Does he imply that the non-Anglo members are t really Australian?

I don't know how he would imply someone isn't "really" Australian. He never enquires about citizenship, since you have to be an Australian citizen to work in the public service. He enquires about what country they came from or if they were born in Australia, what their ethnic heritage is. He certainly asked me those questions.

Well, Lady Hussey reportedly asked Fulani where she was ‘really’ from. Clear implication that Fulani isn’t ‘really’ British.

Hussey wanted to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural heritage, which was not British but something else.

1. Why was that her business to ask, in a professional setting no less?

It wasn't her "business" to ask. I expect she asked because she was curious.

2. Why did she ask where she was’really’ from?

Because Hussey was oblivious to Fulani's social signals, and kept asking the question in different ways.

Why did she inquire at all? Do you not understand that her clear meaning was that Fulani was not ‘really’ British? And such implication was intended to imply that Fulani was less than?

 

[Metaphor]

Frankly, I don't see how contradicting someone when they tell you where they are from, and demanding a "real" answer, could be seen as anything other than extremely rude. Like, accusing people of lying at all is rude, let alone about something as conversationally trivial but personally important as one's place of birth.

If there weren't a racial element, the conversation would be baffling. "Where are you from?" "Chicago" "No where are you REALLY from" is a conversation only ever had between a white person and a non-white, because it would not make sense to randomly accuse someone of lying about their place of origin unless you're a racist trying to make someone feel out of place.

So, when I've had the same conversation hundreds of times in my life, but I'm white, what are the people trying to do to me?

Really now? Because you're white, people rudely insist that you're "really" from England and thus do not belong?

No. People ask where I come from when they hear my non-Anglo name. Now, at this point, I know what they are asking me. They are not asking me: what city in Australia were you born in? They are asking me: what is your ethnic and cultural heritage. I tend to answer both questions in my response, and so either way, they are satisfied.

White people, even in white-majority countries, are often asked where they came from. If you are white but with a non-Australian accent, I would ask you where you came from. (I'm sure Canadians get a bit pissed off when they are mistaken for American, but that's the Canadian problem for not having a distinctive enough accent). If you are white with an Australian accent but with a marked name (anything other than bog standard Anglo-Celtic), I would also probably ask your ethnic and cultural heritage.

When people ask, I rarely think they are asking because they think I do not belong. They are asking because it is likely that my recent ethnic and cultural heritage is not Australian, and they're curious, or perhaps not even curious but are making polite small talk.

Then you don't know what the hell you're talking about, do you? You've never had a remotely similar social experience.

Of course I have--hundreds of times.

 

[Metaphor]

I cannot understand why it matters to you that Fulani’s dress was not stereotypically ‘British.’

Can you explain it to me in a way that doesn’t sound like racism?

I've already explained. In the OP. I will quote myself:

Fulani was dressed in clothing that was obviously not of native British style or design, and even changed her name from Marlene Headley to Ngozi Fulani. She obviously wants to make a point of her non-Anglo heritage.

And then Fulani, in my opinion, deliberately missed the point when someone enquired after her obviously non-Anglo heritage.

Yes, she DID because such inquiries were irrelevant to the occasion and frankly personal and definitely racist.

Irrelevant? Fulani was there representing a charity that assists women of African and Caribbean descent.

Your characterisation of it as 'definitely racist' is not obvious to me. Why was it 'definitely racist'?

There is no need to treat such inquiries as meriting any direct response. Indeed, she showed great forbearance in attempting to supply a response that allowed Lady Hussey to recover from a racist faux pas with grace and dignity.

It is racist now to enquire after the ethnic and cultural heritage of somebody you are speaking to?

In a professional setting? Yes. It is.

Um, okay.

My boss is Vietnamese-born and always enquires after the ethnic and cultural heritage of members of his team (only one person in the team is obviously Anglo-origin). Should I snitch to HR about his crass racism?

I don’t know. Does he imply that the non-Anglo members are t really Australian?

I don't know how he would imply someone isn't "really" Australian. He never enquires about citizenship, since you have to be an Australian citizen to work in the public service. He enquires about what country they came from or if they were born in Australia, what their ethnic heritage is. He certainly asked me those questions.

Well, Lady Hussey reportedly asked Fulani where she was ‘really’ from. Clear implication that Fulani isn’t ‘really’ British.

Hussey wanted to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural heritage, which was not British but something else.

1. Why was that her business to ask, in a professional setting no less?

It wasn't her "business" to ask. I expect she asked because she was curious.

2. Why did she ask where she was’really’ from?

Because Hussey was oblivious to Fulani's social signals, and kept asking the question in different ways.

Why did she inquire at all? Do you not understand that her clear meaning was that Fulani was not ‘really’ British? And such implication was intended to imply that Fulani was less than?

I have already answered your question half a dozen times. I think Hussey enquired because she was curious.

I think Hussey's line of questioning implied "you or your ancestors are of more recent arrival in Britain than the Anglo-Celts". Which is neither racist nor rude, just accurate.

 

[Arctish]

Well, Lady Hussey reportedly asked Fulani where she was ‘really’ from. Clear implication that Fulani isn’t ‘really’ British.

Hussey wanted to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural heritage, which was not British but something else.

Furlani's ethnic heritage is unknown and the reason for that is exactly as she said. Records of which ethnicity/tribes her ancestors came from weren't retained.

Furlani's cultural heritage is British. Her family moved from one British Commonwealth nation (Barbados) to another British Commonwealth nation (The United Kingdom, specifically England) in the 1950s, where Furlani was born and raised. She's as British as Lady Hussey is.

 

[Metaphor]

Well, Lady Hussey reportedly asked Fulani where she was ‘really’ from. Clear implication that Fulani isn’t ‘really’ British.

Hussey wanted to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural heritage, which was not British but something else.

Furlani's ethnic heritage is unknown and the reason for that is exactly as she said. Records of which ethnicity/tribes her ancestors came from weren't retained.

Furlani's cultural heritage is British. Her family moved from one British Commonwealth nation (Barbados) to another British Commonwealth nation (England) in the 1950s, where she was born and raised.

I doubt Barbados describes itself as "British".

Australia is a Commonwealth nation, King Charles is the King of Australia, and I was born and raised here, but I do not call myself "British".

Also: that is not how Fulani herself describes her cultural heritage.

 

[Arctish]

Well, Lady Hussey reportedly asked Fulani where she was ‘really’ from. Clear implication that Fulani isn’t ‘really’ British.

Hussey wanted to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural heritage, which was not British but something else.

Furlani's ethnic heritage is unknown and the reason for that is exactly as she said. Records of which ethnicity/tribes her ancestors came from weren't retained.

Furlani's cultural heritage is British. Her family moved from one British Commonwealth nation (Barbados) to another British Commonwealth nation (England) in the 1950s, where she was born and raised.

I doubt Barbados describes itself as "British".

Australia is a Commonwealth nation, King Charles is the King of Australia, and I was born and raised here, but I do not call myself "British".

So what?

British culture is deeply imbedded in both Barbados and Australia. The official language is English, King Charles is the official Head of State, they celebrate British holidays, the kids in school learn British history, etc.

And even if Barbados wasn't part of the Commonwealth, Furlani was born and raised in the United Kingdom. Her cultural heritage is British.

 

[Metaphor]

Well, Lady Hussey reportedly asked Fulani where she was ‘really’ from. Clear implication that Fulani isn’t ‘really’ British.

Hussey wanted to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural heritage, which was not British but something else.

Furlani's ethnic heritage is unknown and the reason for that is exactly as she said. Records of which ethnicity/tribes her ancestors came from weren't retained.

Furlani's cultural heritage is British. Her family moved from one British Commonwealth nation (Barbados) to another British Commonwealth nation (England) in the 1950s, where she was born and raised.

I doubt Barbados describes itself as "British".

Australia is a Commonwealth nation, King Charles is the King of Australia, and I was born and raised here, but I do not call myself "British".

So what?

British culture is deeply imbedded in both Barbados and Australia. The official language is English, King Charles is the official Head of State, etc.

And even if Barbados wasn't part of the Commonwealth, Furlani was born and raised in the United Kingdom. Her cultural heritage is British.

Tell that to Fulani, who said:

No lady, I am of African heritage, Caribbean descent and British nationality.

 

[Arctish]

Well, Lady Hussey reportedly asked Fulani where she was ‘really’ from. Clear implication that Fulani isn’t ‘really’ British.

Hussey wanted to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural heritage, which was not British but something else.

Furlani's ethnic heritage is unknown and the reason for that is exactly as she said. Records of which ethnicity/tribes her ancestors came from weren't retained.

Furlani's cultural heritage is British. Her family moved from one British Commonwealth nation (Barbados) to another British Commonwealth nation (England) in the 1950s, where she was born and raised.

I doubt Barbados describes itself as "British".

Australia is a Commonwealth nation, King Charles is the King of Australia, and I was born and raised here, but I do not call myself "British".

So what?

British culture is deeply imbedded in both Barbados and Australia. The official language is English, King Charles is the official Head of State, etc.

And even if Barbados wasn't part of the Commonwealth, Furlani was born and raised in the United Kingdom. Her cultural heritage is British.

Tell that to Fulani, who said:

No lady, I am of African heritage, Caribbean descent and British nationality.

She said that after Hussey continued to badger her after she had already said "I am born here and am British".

Hussey refused to accept "I am British" as an answer, and apparently you do too.

 

[Metaphor]

Well, Lady Hussey reportedly asked Fulani where she was ‘really’ from. Clear implication that Fulani isn’t ‘really’ British.

Hussey wanted to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural heritage, which was not British but something else.

Furlani's ethnic heritage is unknown and the reason for that is exactly as she said. Records of which ethnicity/tribes her ancestors came from weren't retained.

Furlani's cultural heritage is British. Her family moved from one British Commonwealth nation (Barbados) to another British Commonwealth nation (England) in the 1950s, where she was born and raised.

I doubt Barbados describes itself as "British".

Australia is a Commonwealth nation, King Charles is the King of Australia, and I was born and raised here, but I do not call myself "British".

So what?

British culture is deeply imbedded in both Barbados and Australia. The official language is English, King Charles is the official Head of State, etc.

And even if Barbados wasn't part of the Commonwealth, Furlani was born and raised in the United Kingdom. Her cultural heritage is British.

Tell that to Fulani, who said:

No lady, I am of African heritage, Caribbean descent and British nationality.

She said that after Hussey continued to badger her after she had already said "I am born here and am British".

Hussey refused to accept "I am British" as an answer, and apparently you do too.

British is Fulani's nationality. She is a British citizen as I am an Australian citizen.

My ethnic heritage? Not "Australian" in any conceivable sense.

My cultural heritage is the admixture of the prevailing Anglo-Australian majority of the country I was raised in, and the Slavic, eastern European culture of my parents.

I don't know your personal circumstances, Arctish, but it sounds like you were not marked as different from the majority.

EDIT: Also, it beggars belief that you think Fulani and Hussey have the same cultural heritage. They clearly do not. Hussey is part of the indigenous white Anglo-Celtic, aristocratic classes of Britain. A class so privileged, she worked for free for sixty years, because what else is a woman of the moneyed classes going to do? Fulani is the daughter of African-ethnicity immgrants from Barbados to Britain.

 

[Arctish]

Well, Lady Hussey reportedly asked Fulani where she was ‘really’ from. Clear implication that Fulani isn’t ‘really’ British.

Hussey wanted to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural heritage, which was not British but something else.

Furlani's ethnic heritage is unknown and the reason for that is exactly as she said. Records of which ethnicity/tribes her ancestors came from weren't retained.

Furlani's cultural heritage is British. Her family moved from one British Commonwealth nation (Barbados) to another British Commonwealth nation (England) in the 1950s, where she was born and raised.

I doubt Barbados describes itself as "British".

Australia is a Commonwealth nation, King Charles is the King of Australia, and I was born and raised here, but I do not call myself "British".

So what?

British culture is deeply imbedded in both Barbados and Australia. The official language is English, King Charles is the official Head of State, etc.

And even if Barbados wasn't part of the Commonwealth, Furlani was born and raised in the United Kingdom. Her cultural heritage is British.

Tell that to Fulani, who said:

No lady, I am of African heritage, Caribbean descent and British nationality.

She said that after Hussey continued to badger her after she had already said "I am born here and am British".

Hussey refused to accept "I am British" as an answer, and apparently you do too.

British is Fulani's nationality.

It's also her cultural heritage. She was born and raised in British culture and appears to have fully participated in it her entire life.

She is a British citizen as I am an Australian citizen.

My ethnic heritage? Not "Australian" in any conceivable sense.

My cultural heritage is the admixture of the prevailing Anglo-Australian majority of the country I was raised in, and the Slavic, eastern European culture of my parents.

I don't know your personal circumstances, Arctish, but it sounds like you were not marked as different from the majority.

EDIT: Also, it beggars belief that you think Fulani and Hussey have the same cultural heritage. They clearly do not. Hussey is part of the indigenous white Anglo-Celtic, aristocratic classes of Britain. A class so privileged, she worked for free for sixty years, because what else is a woman of the moneyed classes going to do? Fulani is the daughter of African-ethnicity immgrants from Barbados to Britain.

They don't have the same life experiences due to racism and classism in their culture, but it's still the same culture.

 

[Metaphor]

Well, Lady Hussey reportedly asked Fulani where she was ‘really’ from. Clear implication that Fulani isn’t ‘really’ British.

Hussey wanted to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural heritage, which was not British but something else.

Furlani's ethnic heritage is unknown and the reason for that is exactly as she said. Records of which ethnicity/tribes her ancestors came from weren't retained.

Furlani's cultural heritage is British. Her family moved from one British Commonwealth nation (Barbados) to another British Commonwealth nation (England) in the 1950s, where she was born and raised.

I doubt Barbados describes itself as "British".

Australia is a Commonwealth nation, King Charles is the King of Australia, and I was born and raised here, but I do not call myself "British".

So what?

British culture is deeply imbedded in both Barbados and Australia. The official language is English, King Charles is the official Head of State, etc.

And even if Barbados wasn't part of the Commonwealth, Furlani was born and raised in the United Kingdom. Her cultural heritage is British.

Tell that to Fulani, who said:

No lady, I am of African heritage, Caribbean descent and British nationality.

She said that after Hussey continued to badger her after she had already said "I am born here and am British".

Hussey refused to accept "I am British" as an answer, and apparently you do too.

British is Fulani's nationality.

It's also her cultural heritage. She was born and raised in British culture and appears to have fully participated in it her entire life.

Are both your parents immigrants to the country you were born in?

She is a British citizen as I am an Australian citizen.

My ethnic heritage? Not "Australian" in any conceivable sense.

My cultural heritage is the admixture of the prevailing Anglo-Australian majority of the country I was raised in, and the Slavic, eastern European culture of my parents.

I don't know your personal circumstances, Arctish, but it sounds like you were not marked as different from the majority.

EDIT: Also, it beggars belief that you think Fulani and Hussey have the same cultural heritage. They clearly do not. Hussey is part of the indigenous white Anglo-Celtic, aristocratic classes of Britain. A class so privileged, she worked for free for sixty years, because what else is a woman of the moneyed classes going to do? Fulani is the daughter of African-ethnicity immgrants from Barbados to Britain.

They don't have the same life experiences due to racism and classism in their culture, but it's the same culture.

As I said: tell that to Fulani, who provided a different answer to yours.

 

[Politesse]

Frankly, I don't see how contradicting someone when they tell you where they are from, and demanding a "real" answer, could be seen as anything other than extremely rude. Like, accusing people of lying at all is rude, let alone about something as conversationally trivial but personally important as one's place of birth.

If there weren't a racial element, the conversation would be baffling. "Where are you from?" "Chicago" "No where are you REALLY from" is a conversation only ever had between a white person and a non-white, because it would not make sense to randomly accuse someone of lying about their place of origin unless you're a racist trying to make someone feel out of place.

So, when I've had the same conversation hundreds of times in my life, but I'm white, what are the people trying to do to me?

Really now? Because you're white, people rudely insist that you're "really" from England and thus do not belong?

No. People ask where I come from when they hear my non-Anglo name. Now, at this point, I know what they are asking me. They are not asking me: what city in Australia were you born in? They are asking me: what is your ethnic and cultural heritage. I tend to answer both questions in my response, and so either way, they are satisfied.

White people, even in white-majority countries, are often asked where they came from. If you are white but with a non-Australian accent, I would ask you where you came from. (I'm sure Canadians get a bit pissed off when they are mistaken for American, but that's the Canadian problem for not having a distinctive enough accent). If you are white with an Australian accent but with a marked name (anything other than bog standard Anglo-Celtic), I would also probably ask your ethnic and cultural heritage.

When people ask, I rarely think they are asking because they think I do not belong. They are asking because it is likely that my recent ethnic and cultural heritage is not Australian, and they're curious, or perhaps not even curious but are making polite small talk.

Then you don't know what the hell you're talking about, do you? You've never had a remotely similar social experience.

Of course I have--hundreds of times.

Well, no. If you've never been targeted for discrimination by such conversations, all you ever had was some charming small talk about your place of origin. That's not even sort of equivalent.

 

[Metaphor]

Frankly, I don't see how contradicting someone when they tell you where they are from, and demanding a "real" answer, could be seen as anything other than extremely rude. Like, accusing people of lying at all is rude, let alone about something as conversationally trivial but personally important as one's place of birth.

If there weren't a racial element, the conversation would be baffling. "Where are you from?" "Chicago" "No where are you REALLY from" is a conversation only ever had between a white person and a non-white, because it would not make sense to randomly accuse someone of lying about their place of origin unless you're a racist trying to make someone feel out of place.

So, when I've had the same conversation hundreds of times in my life, but I'm white, what are the people trying to do to me?

Really now? Because you're white, people rudely insist that you're "really" from England and thus do not belong?

No. People ask where I come from when they hear my non-Anglo name. Now, at this point, I know what they are asking me. They are not asking me: what city in Australia were you born in? They are asking me: what is your ethnic and cultural heritage. I tend to answer both questions in my response, and so either way, they are satisfied.

White people, even in white-majority countries, are often asked where they came from. If you are white but with a non-Australian accent, I would ask you where you came from. (I'm sure Canadians get a bit pissed off when they are mistaken for American, but that's the Canadian problem for not having a distinctive enough accent). If you are white with an Australian accent but with a marked name (anything other than bog standard Anglo-Celtic), I would also probably ask your ethnic and cultural heritage.

When people ask, I rarely think they are asking because they think I do not belong. They are asking because it is likely that my recent ethnic and cultural heritage is not Australian, and they're curious, or perhaps not even curious but are making polite small talk.

Then you don't know what the hell you're talking about, do you? You've never had a remotely similar social experience.

Of course I have--hundreds of times.

Well, no. If you've never been targeted for discrimination by such conversations, all you ever had was some charming small talk about your place of origin. That's not even sort of equivalent.

Oh, I see. Fulani was the target of discrimination, and I was the target of small talk.

 

[Politesse]

Frankly, I don't see how contradicting someone when they tell you where they are from, and demanding a "real" answer, could be seen as anything other than extremely rude. Like, accusing people of lying at all is rude, let alone about something as conversationally trivial but personally important as one's place of birth.

If there weren't a racial element, the conversation would be baffling. "Where are you from?" "Chicago" "No where are you REALLY from" is a conversation only ever had between a white person and a non-white, because it would not make sense to randomly accuse someone of lying about their place of origin unless you're a racist trying to make someone feel out of place.

So, when I've had the same conversation hundreds of times in my life, but I'm white, what are the people trying to do to me?

Really now? Because you're white, people rudely insist that you're "really" from England and thus do not belong?

No. People ask where I come from when they hear my non-Anglo name. Now, at this point, I know what they are asking me. They are not asking me: what city in Australia were you born in? They are asking me: what is your ethnic and cultural heritage. I tend to answer both questions in my response, and so either way, they are satisfied.

White people, even in white-majority countries, are often asked where they came from. If you are white but with a non-Australian accent, I would ask you where you came from. (I'm sure Canadians get a bit pissed off when they are mistaken for American, but that's the Canadian problem for not having a distinctive enough accent). If you are white with an Australian accent but with a marked name (anything other than bog standard Anglo-Celtic), I would also probably ask your ethnic and cultural heritage.

When people ask, I rarely think they are asking because they think I do not belong. They are asking because it is likely that my recent ethnic and cultural heritage is not Australian, and they're curious, or perhaps not even curious but are making polite small talk.

Then you don't know what the hell you're talking about, do you? You've never had a remotely similar social experience.

Of course I have--hundreds of times.

Well, no. If you've never been targeted for discrimination by such conversations, all you ever had was some charming small talk about your place of origin. That's not even sort of equivalent.

Oh, I see. Fulani was the target of discrimination, and I was the target of small talk.

You weren't targeted by anything, by your own admission.