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Which movie did you watch today and how would you rate it?

Star Wars is just a SciFi fairy tale. I'm not sure how "good" they're supposed to be. They are fun, silly stories with space as the backdrop/setting.
I have a hard time taking statements like this seriously. Thor - Ragnarok was fun, Thor - Ragnarok was fantasy, Thor - Ragnarok was awesome all around, balancing everything just about right.

Granted, some people are suggesting that this latest movie is among the best of the Star Wars films... but then you read comments like, 'don't take it too seriously', which seems to make claims of VIII ~ V suspicious.
Meh. I actually find comic book adaptations different than 'fairy tales' but whatever. I was not a big fan of I-III but loved IV and V. By the time VI came out, I found it hokey - mainly because I was older. I love the characters and when I was 12 had a huge crush on Mark Hamill but I typically don't worry about 'consistency or plot holes etc etc'.

For the record, I do the same with Doctor Who. I just love the series. It doesn't have to be perfectly balanced........
 
Star Wars is just a SciFi fairy tale. I'm not sure how "good" they're supposed to be. They are fun, silly stories with space as the backdrop/setting.
I have a hard time taking statements like this seriously. Thor - Ragnarok was fun, Thor - Ragnarok was fantasy, Thor - Ragnarok was awesome all around, balancing everything just about right.

Granted, some people are suggesting that this latest movie is among the best of the Star Wars films... but then you read comments like, 'don't take it too seriously', which seems to make claims of VIII ~ V suspicious.

Except that Thor: Ragnarok was actually about something.

For example, we find out that Odin was a vicious brute who built his empire out of the blood and tears of his enemies, then tried to be a good guy and have it both ways, editing history until people forgot about the horrible things he did to get all of that power.

I watched that and couldn't help but think about the way America's glossed over slavery and countless acts of genocide against the indigenous, then have the gall to act like we're standing on the moral high ground.

One could also draw parallels to the British and Spanish empires.

Star Wars does have political messages (the empire are obviously space Nazis), but they seem to take a back seat.
 
Star Wars is just a SciFi fairy tale. I'm not sure how "good" they're supposed to be. They are fun, silly stories with space as the backdrop/setting.
I have a hard time taking statements like this seriously. Thor - Ragnarok was fun, Thor - Ragnarok was fantasy, Thor - Ragnarok was awesome all around, balancing everything just about right.

Granted, some people are suggesting that this latest movie is among the best of the Star Wars films... but then you read comments like, 'don't take it too seriously', which seems to make claims of VIII ~ V suspicious.

Except that Thor: Ragnarok was actually about something.

For example, we find out that Odin was a vicious brute who built his empire out of the blood and tears of his enemies, then tried to be a good guy and have it both ways, editing history until people forgot about the horrible things he did to get all of that power.

I watched that and couldn't help but think about the way America's glossed over slavery and countless acts of genocide against the indigenous, then have the gall to act like we're standing on the moral high ground.

One could also draw parallels to the British and Spanish empires.

Star Wars does have political messages (the empire are obviously space Nazis), but they seem to take a back seat.

Well, there are other, more subtle, political messages too.

http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/star-wars/269657/toxic-masculinity-is-the-true-villain-of-star-wars-the-last-jedi (Spoilers at link - you have been warned, but if you still haven't seen it after a week, you likely don't care, right?).
 
Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Movie Reviews - Audience - Rotten Tomatoes

Haven't seen it, but it's getting a lot of hate from audience.

I think it was pretty good - and it's difficult to argue with a 'critic' who just says "it stinks".

One person wrote: "Such garbage! Literally made me so mad I had to make a Rotten Tomatoes account to review it." and that was ALL he wrote. So having gone to all that trouble, he followed up by NOT reviewing it. As we have no clue what it was about the movie that made him mad, how are we to assess the reasonableness (or otherwise) of his 0.5 star rating?

The longer and more thoughtful reviews seem to generally give good to average scores; while the poor scores are associated with 'reviews' that amount to fewer than a dozen words - perhaps this implies that it is not a good movie for stupid people with short attention spans.
 
Actually, the longest ones appear to be two stars or less reviews.

Some from the first few pages.


½ December 20, 2017

Star Wars: TLJ is a film with amazing potential. The Force Awakens really set it up well-- Rey's power on the rise, Kylo's internal conflicts, the death of Solo. It felt like star wars itself was awakened as we revisited what felt like the real Star Wars universe for the first time since episode 6.

The best things about this movie:
- The in-depth look at the force as more than a mysterious background noise.
- The lightsaber fights.
- The space action
- Kylo and Rey's development / storyline.

Literally everything else about this movie missed the mark. Honestly, so much of this movie happens without changing anything that you could edit out entire swaths of it without changing the end result. In fact, if you did edit out entire swaths of it, you'd have a much better movie. I'd sincerely give this movie 1.5 stars / 5-- one for Rey and Kylo, and half of one for Finn & Rose-- because Finn at least pulled his weight in that storyline.

From here on out, there will be spoilers ahead_______

The storyline progresses down several side plots-- we have Finn and Rose, Poe and Leia, Rey and Kylo, and then the relevant side characters that surround those plotlines. Let's start with the good one-- Rey and Kylo's development as Kylo feels a pull to the light, and Rey's (albeit markedly smaller) pull towards darkness. It was incredibly well done-- except that Snokes and Luke were garbage.

Snokes was such a fan favorite since The Force Awakens; who is he? What does he want? What is he going to do with Kylo? Well, never meet your villains, kids, because this guy goes from being a mysterious knife in the dark, pulling the strings of fate to suit his vile dreams to... an emperor palpatine rip off in a gold robe who gets bested by his own damn apprentice, while spewing some poorly written dialogue about how Kylo was about to "kill his true enemy". Jesus Christ Abram, the most Forced thing in this movie is your contrived script.

Then we have Luke-- or should I say, Mark Hamill as himself. Have you ever wanted to see a jedi who's so cocky he literally brushes his shoulder off after surviving a volley of AT-AT fire? How about him drink green milk straight from a strange alien's teet? How about Luke running up a hill with a torch trying to burn down ancient jedi texts while Yoda laughs and blows it up for him? There are two types of luke available in this movie: Luke as if he had never learned anything since episode 4 and cocky fan service. Somehow, he's more naive than Rey or Kylo, and his actions supposedly sealed Kylo's fate as going to the dark side. This is the opposite of everything Luke was famous for-- seeing the good in Vader. And let's not forget that, after 1 day of training Rey, she bests him in a lightsaber duel. Honestly, I don't know why Luke didn't ask Mary Sue for training because clearly she is already a master.

As for Finn and Rose; Finn is basically a repeat of what we've already seen in 7. He starts off wanting to run from the fight, but ends the movie willing to literally die for the cause. Ok, cool. It was good the first time at least. They also open up an interesting moral quandary: those who sell weapons to the Imperials *also* sell to the rebels. What do they do with this information though? Immediately forget that. Trash their casino and call it even. Yay? My main problems with this storyline is that Rose, as a character, makes no sense, and nothing the pair of them do actually matters in the end.

Rose idolizes Finn when they first meet, because he's a "brave hero". Of course, she also just HAPPENS to meet him as he's trying to flee the ship... so now she hates him, because he's trying to run while her sister just gave her life for his cause. Awesome! Great storytelling. Now what do they do with this?

The two of them, along with an assist from Poe, hatch a plan to stop the tracking device on Snoke's ship from being able to trace them. Good plan. Sounds reasonable. Long shot but they don't have another option. Or at least they don't THINK they have another option because Captain Purple Hair (I forget her name) decides to not tell Poe that they have a plan that will likely save them all. That's it. Purple just calls him a flyboy and dismisses him, despite the fact that he usually has a command role on the ship and just wants to know what's going on so he knows his people will be safe. She has no reason to do this. It's incredibly forced conflict.

And why is purple hair even in the movie? Because Leia's command center got blown up, with her in it. This would have been a serious, breathtaking moment... but she literally Mary Poppins herself back into the ship. Apparently, she's not just force sensitive, she can use force pull to save her life while in the vacuum of space. Without a leader, they go under the command of captain Purple, who we've not even seen on camera up until her promotion, and she is immediately hostile to a beloved character-- Poe-- for no reason. My girlfriend Nicole even said she thought that Purple was going to be some sort of traitor, for how unlikeable they were making Purple out to be.

But it's a damn good thing she wasn't-- because Finn and Rose's plan fails miserably. They don't end up affecting the overall story at all, except that now Finn is courageous enough to sacrificing himself in a head on crash... and Rose apparently loves him now. And kisses him. Randomly. I literally thought she still hated him when she was about to crash into him, and then 3 seconds later she's like "I love you". It was jarring and... say it with me again, Forced.

And what does Purple end up doing? Not a damned thing. The whole "I didn't want to tell you the plan" subplot is resolved by her eventually telling him the plan. I can't even make this up. And then she stays behind and... heroically sacrifices herself? WHY? She was being dismissive of her underlings not half an hour ago and suddenly she'd die for them rather than set the ship on auto pilot? The most damning thing about her is that I was happy to see her character die off. I am more likely to see episode 9 if I know she will not be in it.

But my main problem with this movie is this single theme with all my prior complaints: So much of it doesn't matter in the end. That's probably summed up best by Luke's final moments. He goes to battle not as himself, but as an illusion. A stall tactic. I thought, oh awesome, that's a great explanation for how he manages to survive a volley of AT-ATs *and* kylo at the same time. I guess that means we'll see him in episode 9! But we won't, because right after that battle, he dies for no reason and joins the force. Cool. Literally nothing in this movie leads to anything, as the plot fails to progress by continually undermining itself at every turn.

So it's at this point you're probably thinking, "I thought you said this movie had potential?" ABSOLUTELY. Now, in an act of great hubris, let me fix it for them.

1. Delete Captain Purple. She's unlikeable, forgettable (I am not calling her captain purple out of disrespect but because I literally can't remember her name), and *redundant*, as she's just Princess Leia but not good in any way.

2. When Leia is about to get blown up, instead of Mary Poppins-ing via deus ex machina, have a nameless underling sacrifice himself (or herself) to save her-- maybe that person throws Leia off the command deck and closes the airlock right before the missile hits. Leia then sees the floating corpse of someone who died for her. She's asked many to die for her on the battlefield before, but this time, it's different. It changes her.

3. When "someone stays behind" on the ship, make that Leia. Leia then sacrifices herself for the resistance that she loves. This inspires the resistance to rally as they really did love her as their leader.

4. When Rose and Finn are on Snoke's ship, make their original plan fail still, because if it doesn't, then Leia's sacrifice isn't needed. Instead, have Rose, who's wiretapping the ship, hear that they have a Jedi on board-- Finn, who loves Rey, goes to save her, literally storming two Sith Lords alone. This act of courage is what finally redeems him in Rose's eyes. They join the fight against the dozen or so Elite guard (which, by the way, Rey and Kylo SHOULD NOT have been able to beat by themselves). Kylo then asks Rey to join him... by asking her to kill Finn. She declines, and Kylo tries to kill Finn out of rage, but Rose sacrifices herself to save him. Then, when she delivers the line about "Its not about killing what you hate, its about saving what you love"-- she isn't talking about her loving him, because obviously why would she? It's about him loving Rey, and that she thought that love is important to keeping the resistance alive. Finn and Rey flee, but Kylo does not pursue as he knows he can't beat both of them.

5. With Leia and Han gone, and his new apprentice already very skilled in the force, Luke joins the Force willingly, to be with his sister and best friend again. There's nothing more for him in this world.

This improves the movie by making the sacrifices in it more meaningful and the characters be more consistent overall. It would cut down on the amount of Poe in the movie (which is a damned shame as he may be my favorite character in 7), but it would still be better for it in the end.




2 stars December 20, 2017
Star Wars: The Last Jedi...It's not awful, but as far as the script goes it's one of the most incompetently written blockbusters I've ever seen. They squandered virtually everything TFA set them up with (NO spoilers ahead).

Okay, so my biggest problem was an overall lack of thematic and dramatic Unity. But what do I mean by that?

Here's the "unity" issue: in general, when telling a story you want it to be: Because X, therefore Y, because Y, therefore Z.

This way the choices of the characters build on one another. This develops the story like a unified puzzle. Choice matters and therefore character matters. Character growth and lack of growth matters because it effects the world around them and vice versa, the world matters because of its effect on the characters we (hopefully) have come to identify with.

That's not what Rian Johnson did. Instead he said: X happened, and the Y happened, and THEN Z happened AND THEN...

You ever had a six year old try to explain a movie? This was the professional version of that. A bunch of disconnected "happening" rather than a unified, logical, character-driven progression. Everything fits together one theme building on another like a symphony.

That's not what happened. We didn't get an opera, we got a bunch of noise. Instead of a struggle between light and dark, hope and hopelessness, tradition and progress we got...a bunch of stuff happening to some people.

There were some very good things: The inclusivity in the casting, the attempt to break out of the mold and tell a slightly different story, and the spectacles and set pieces were all very good and very enjoyable to watch.

But in the end, what matters here is story - and choosing to rate a movie highly on superficial "style" points is like declaring an underbaked cake "delicious" just because you really like the icing.






½ December 20, 2017
Mess. I have been a Star Wars fan since I was kid. I'd say 25 years because I was around 6 when I first watched A New Hope on VHS. I can't describe how disappointed and angry I felt when I left the theater after my first viewing of The Last Jedi. Please note that I am not the only person who feels this way. When a large segment of the fans feel outraged after seeing your movie there is a problem, Disney, a gross miscalculation. Rian Johnson's treatment of Star Wars is the equivalent of graffiti on a statue. It feels as if it is intentionally disrespecting fans and what they love of the OT and PT (yes, there are people who love the PT).

I've heard people say that whoever didn't love this movie is just upset because things didn't play out the way they wanted. In my case, that's false. I didn't have a list of required developments and arcs. All I wanted was a movie that didn't feel like a slap in the face but apparently that is too much to ask. Incidentally, I liked the dynamic between Rey and Kylo Ren, and especially enjoyed Kylo's arc and Adam Driver's acting. But the way that Rian Johnson torched the past to make way for his version of Star Wars is gross. It feels like it was deliberately made to rattle and upset people.

[SPOILERS] There's so much that's messed up about what goes on in this movie, from tossing the lightsaber and then breaking it, killing Admiral Ackbar, Mary Poppins Leia, Luke's deranged persona complete with predilection for those creepy udders, Snoke being disposed of in that way, Rey's parentage reveal, etc. etc. It's like a big F.U. to whoever was remotely invested in this.

Beyond that, the movie itself is just bad. The pacing and editing looks like it could have been done by a noob, the humor is preposterous and disruptive of tone, the characterizations are awful and flimsy, especially Rey's and Luke's. The Canto Bight plot is pointless and BroomBoi is corny AF. It feels like it was made to deliver one big shock after the other, but without any substance to back it up the only shock for me is how this guy got a trilogy. I promise I will not be watching it. I go to the movies to enjoy myself, not to get trolled. At this point I'm not even sure I'll watch episode 9 and coming from a lifelong fan of Star Wars that is saying a lot.





½ December 20, 2017
I have to strike it for the story and plot. These two guys, JJ and Rian in their hubris tossed out multiple dozens of plot and canon advancement for the Star Wars universe in NY Times Bestselling novels by lead authors, to instead give us comic book level stories that don't hold up.

Instead of filling the void of dozens of huge story gaps from Force Awakens, The Last Jedi continues the trend, all but taking the franchise off a canon and story cliff into the abyss of inane. They seem to roll the dice in both films and whatever number comes up, voila, there's a new Force power that one of the Force users can do that makes no sense on any level of progression or mastery attained or earned.

Somehow 30 years after defeating the two greatest Force users, Palpatine among them, that were the font of the Empire, unlike the rational and logical novels, in JJ and Rian's bizarro galaxy, the Republic not only never won, but is now reduced to a room full of remaining participants.

30 years later, also, every move puts forth the latest superweapon, now under JJ's watch was now so grandiose to outdo past superweapons, is now a planet. Somehow galactic imperialists didn't get the memo that these things just get blown up, and better to build a great fleet of thousands of cruisers instead, no? Again and again, these things get taken out by single snub fighters, taking down their shields by a few guys on the ground, and in the latest film, by a single snub fighter to take out the dreadnought's defenses so a single bomber can undo the massive ship that has the rebel fleet wanting to run in terror from.

Where is the republic? Where is the vast galaxy and its inhabitants, it's democracies? Somehow the wealthy of all the galaxies worlds are all arms dealers who gather on one planet's casinos, so they tell us.

What drivel.

The first Star Wars was filmed when we didn't even have PC's in our businesses or our homes. We have come a long way since the 1970's. Well, Star Wars didn't get the memo. We still have gunners at manual turrets that can't hit a snub fighter in Star Wars film after film. This while in today's U.S. and ally navy ships, we have automated defensive turrets that will evaporate super-fast anti ship missiles and warplanes alike.

Drivel.

They should have replaced the worn and out of shape actors playing the key trio (though Ford really held up). Why? Because they haven't kept themselves up the way Luke and Leia, jedi masters (according to novels and logically so) would have. They should be in peak shape, at the peak of their powers. So now instead of integrating masters into the stories, they have to play this plot game of transitioning out the old with the new, like the meat sacks of Star Trek Generations. Enough. Replace them and use them as the characters deserve for winning stories and film quality, not to serve the actors.

I want to weep for the franchise. These vapid story lines are far worse than anything Lucas ever did. They don't offer canon, but canon chaos or canon vapor. Roll the dice and see what the main characters can do with the Force next. Pull a Force game card and play it on the board. Pull a plot card and play it. There's no sense to any of it on the film board.

Kathleen, JJ, and Rian have destroyed the franchise.

I pray I'll be alive for a reboot when maybe someone will do justice to the franchise again.


 
Do I have to watch Rogue One before seeing the Last Jedi, or does it make sense as a standalone sequel to Episode 7?
 
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...-ratings-bots_us_5a38cb78e4b0860bf4aab5b1?jqf

Surprise! White supremacists "alt right free speech advocates" claim credit for the anti Star Wars backlash.

- - - Updated - - -

Do I have to watch Rogue One before seeing the Last Jedi, or does it make sense as a standalone sequel to Episode 7?

Rogue One is standalone. It illuminates and gives you greater appreciation for episode 4 (the original movie), but you don't need to see it.
 
Yeah, the alt right snowflakes are always doing that, but they must be doing something different this time, because disparity to the critic scores is much bigger in this movie compared to the other SW ones.

The reviews I posted above don't appear to be alt right, they just sound like superfans who didn't like the current characterizations and storytelling. Though they could be real and the the total score could be due to bots.

I'm not a superfan, so I probably won't care about if any of the characters aren't so true to any true fan vision.
 
Except that Thor: Ragnarok was actually about something.

For example, we find out that Odin was a vicious brute who built his empire out of the blood and tears of his enemies, then tried to be a good guy and have it both ways, editing history until people forgot about the horrible things he did to get all of that power.

I watched that and couldn't help but think about the way America's glossed over slavery and countless acts of genocide against the indigenous, then have the gall to act like we're standing on the moral high ground.

One could also draw parallels to the British and Spanish empires.

Star Wars does have political messages (the empire are obviously space Nazis), but they seem to take a back seat.

Well, there are other, more subtle, political messages too.

http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/star-wars/269657/toxic-masculinity-is-the-true-villain-of-star-wars-the-last-jedi (Spoilers at link - you have been warned, but if you still haven't seen it after a week, you likely don't care, right?).

Neat! No wonder all the white supremacists have their panties in a wad about this movie.

Not only does it have protagonists who are not white males, not only does it suggest that fascism is a bad thing, but now this as well?
 
Yeah, the alt right snowflakes are always doing that, but they must be doing something different this time, because disparity to the critic scores is much bigger in this movie compared to the other SW ones.

The reviews I posted above don't appear to be alt right, they just sound like superfans who didn't like the current characterizations and storytelling. Though they could be real and the the total score could be due to bots.

I'm not a superfan, so I probably won't care about if any of the characters aren't so true to any true fan vision.

Sure. Tell yourself whatever you have to. I saw the criticisms, and they're bullshit. It's just the usual white supremacist scumbags getting their panties in a wad, and then fishing around for excuses for why they don't like the movie because being honest about why they hate the movie would expose them. That's why the criticisms are so bad.

And fuck, the white supremacists admitted that they were behind the backlash, and you still expect us to believe that they aren't. You will fish for any bad argument to defend them, won't you?
 
Finn said:
Stop enjoying this! Stop enjoying this!

I just saw it, and yeah, I can't imagine anyone BUT the alt-right disliking it.

It was a serious film, but also a funny one. The character arcs were all great, the twists just kept coming, the structure echoed the Empire Strikes Back without being derivative, and there was never a dull moment. Best thing: constant subversion of expectations.
 
Finn said:
Stop enjoying this! Stop enjoying this!

I just saw it, and yeah, I can't imagine anyone BUT the alt-right disliking it.

It was a serious film, but also a funny one. The character arcs were all great, the twists just kept coming, the structure echoed the Empire Strikes Back without being derivative, and there was never a dull moment. Best thing: constant subversion of expectations.

Yeah, but
  1. The main villains are space Nazis, which implies that Nazis are a bad thing and
  2. Some of the protagonists are not white males.

Obviously, the kind of people who use phrases like "social justice warrior" or "political correctness" are going to take extreme exception to this.
 
Finn said:
Stop enjoying this! Stop enjoying this!

I just saw it, and yeah, I can't imagine anyone BUT the alt-right disliking it.

It was a serious film, but also a funny one. The character arcs were all great, the twists just kept coming, the structure echoed the Empire Strikes Back without being derivative, and there was never a dull moment. Best thing: constant subversion of expectations.

I agree. There were moments when the entire audience was laughing (at least in the cinema where I saw it).

"Do you think we got him?"
 
Yeah, even Hux made a funny, and it was one of the movie's funniest lines. And there were a lot of funny lines!
 
Yeah, the alt right snowflakes are always doing that, but they must be doing something different this time, because disparity to the critic scores is much bigger in this movie compared to the other SW ones.

The reviews I posted above don't appear to be alt right, they just sound like superfans who didn't like the current characterizations and storytelling. Though they could be real and the the total score could be due to bots.

I'm not a superfan, so I probably won't care about if any of the characters aren't so true to any true fan vision.

Sure. Tell yourself whatever you have to. I saw the criticisms, and they're bullshit. It's just the usual white supremacist scumbags getting their panties in a wad, and then fishing around for excuses for why they don't like the movie because being honest about why they hate the movie would expose them. That's why the criticisms are so bad.

And fuck, the white supremacists admitted that they were behind the backlash, and you still expect us to believe that they aren't. You will fish for any bad argument to defend them, won't you?

:laugh: Underseer, you sound very much like a bot yourself. It doesn't look like you read anything I wrote nor the reviews I posted. Just another of your many kneejerk, groundless accusations of another poster of being right wing.
 
Yeah, the alt right snowflakes are always doing that, but they must be doing something different this time, because disparity to the critic scores is much bigger in this movie compared to the other SW ones.

The reviews I posted above don't appear to be alt right, they just sound like superfans who didn't like the current characterizations and storytelling. Though they could be real and the the total score could be due to bots.

I'm not a superfan, so I probably won't care about if any of the characters aren't so true to any true fan vision.

Sure. Tell yourself whatever you have to. I saw the criticisms, and they're bullshit. It's just the usual white supremacist scumbags getting their panties in a wad, and then fishing around for excuses for why they don't like the movie because being honest about why they hate the movie would expose them. That's why the criticisms are so bad.

And fuck, the white supremacists admitted that they were behind the backlash, and you still expect us to believe that they aren't. You will fish for any bad argument to defend them, won't you?

:laugh: Underseer, you sound very much like a bot yourself. It doesn't look like you read anything I wrote nor the reviews I posted. Just another of your many kneejerk, groundless accusations of another poster of being right wing.

Yes, I read it. I don't agree with you.

I've heard the criticisms. People don't make arguments that flimsy unless they are being dishonest about why they don't like something.
 
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