White mass killer just had a bad day

[Derec]

You did not answer the question.

Because the entire premise of the question was fallacious, as I explained.

 

[laughing dog]

You did not answer the question.

Because the entire premise of the question was fallacious, as I explained.

Your explanation missed the point. While Musim is not a race or an ethnicity, it is a group that is generalized about, and as a group tends to generate an inordinate amount fear and bigoted propaganda from individuals, including some posters in this forum.

 

[Toni]

You did not answer the question.

Because the entire premise of the question was fallacious, as I explained.

No, it’s not. In no way did I reference race.

Muslims face considerable discrimination and anti-Muslim bigotry, dramatically increased after 9/11 and since, along with bigotry against many other groups, during the Trump administration, particularly any group not white/straight/Christian/American, preferably American born and not naturalized.

So, answer the question:

If the murderer had been Muslim, do you think the reporting would have been different?

I will state that I do think it would have been reported differently. I think the biggest assumption was that this was part of some jihad or some attempt at enforcing shariah law and other nonsense, along with how fucked up Muslim attitudes towards women and senate—although that would have been a minor issue.

As I hope was obvious in my first post, I believe that law enforcement took great care to attempt to allay fears that these murders were part of a (foreign) terrorist plot but rather the actions of a very confused individual. From what I read so far, I believe this is true: Ling appears to be very confused and to suffer significant mental illness. My opinion is that this was exacerbated by his religious upbringing which neglected to teach any real information about human sexuality and instead relied on shame and fear. I may feel some sympathy with this young man but in no way does that mean that I do not think he should be brought to trial and face the full weight of judgement by the legal system. Any sympathy I feel for this young man pales—absolutely pales in comparison with the sympathy I feel for the victims and their surviving family and friends. I cannot say that enough.

 

[Derec]

I *think* I asked you whether these were 'legitimate' massage parlors offering legitimate massage services vs sexual services in a different thread, but I never checked back.

The two in Buckhead (Aromatherapy and Gold) are pretty much brothels with

I found it confusing because it's been reported various ways plus the women shot were all....much older than one typically thinks of a sex worker.

Generally the KAMPs have an older woman working as "mama san". I would think the older women at Aromatherapy and Gold played that role. That said, from what I have heard the age of Atlanta are AMP providers has gone up too so who knows.

So, women should be available to relieve the sexual urges of confused men so that the men do not shoot up the place?

As long as there are women (and men) willing to pursue that line of work, I do not see how you or the government should have the right to tell them otherwise.
Prohibiting and stigmatizing sex work is not helping anybody, least of all the sex workers.

 

[Derec]

No, it’s not. In no way did I reference race.

You were replying to the post where I asked Jimmy about why he thought race was relevant.

Muslims face considerable discrimination and anti-Muslim bigotry,

BS. If anything, there is a lot of apologetics for Islam on the US Left.

If the murderer had been Muslim, do you think the reporting would have been different?

There would probably be a lot of apologetics from the same quarters that are rejoicing that the shooter was a non-Muslim white guy.

 

[lpetrich]

Georgia Spa Shooter Was a Patient at an Evangelical “Sex Addiction” Clinic | Hemant Mehta | Friendly Atheist | Patheos
noting
Accused Atlanta gunman was a patient at an evangelical treatment center - The Washington Post
That clinic: HopeQuest in Acworth GA, near Atlanta

HopeQuest has ties to major evangelical institutions and has promoted “ex-gay therapy,” the idea that people can become heterosexual through counseling. Long, 21, who grew up in a conservative Southern Baptist church, was a patient at the treatment facility in 2019 and again in 2020, according to his former roommate Tyler Bayless.

...
The evangelical facility HopeQuest advertises its services for treating “sex addiction” and “pornography addiction,” alongside several descriptions for what it believes these addictions could include. Bayless said Long blamed his descent into addiction on pornography and used a flip phone instead of a smartphone to avoid temptation online.

There is a simpler solution: Matthew 18:9 and Matthew 19:12

In addition to its work with patients on “sex addiction,” HopeQuest was once a hot spot for what some call “conversion therapy” and “ex-gay” rehabilitation. The founder and creator of HopeQuest, Roy Blankenship, was once considered one of the nation’s foremost conversion therapists.

Blankenship considered himself “ex-gay” and served on the board of the “ex-gay” Exodus International group, which was disbanded in 2013. After 22 years, Blankenship retired as chair of the board at HopeQuest in December 2018. He renounced conversion therapy and publicly came out as gay the following year.

...
The current director of clinical programs at HopeQuest is Wayne Carriker, who considers himself ex-gay and has promoted conversion therapy.

"Conversion therapy" is a total failure -- it has 0% success in making people heterosexual.

 

[Toni]

You were replying to the post where I asked Jimmy about why he thought race was relevant.

I selected another demographic that faces a lot of harsh press and discrimination. I know and you know and we all know that Muslim is not a race. I assumed you could follow. My apologies.

BS. If anything, there is a lot of apologetics for Islam on the US Left.

Thank you for the example that proves my point while seeking to negate my point.

If the murderer had been Muslim, do you think the reporting would have been different?

There would probably be a lot of apologetics from the same quarters that are rejoicing that the shooter was a non-Muslim white guy.

I have seen zero rejoicing at this tragedy. But then, we visit different news sites. And you live in Georgia (I think? Sorry if I'm mistaken) and you know local media more than I do.

 

[lpetrich]

Rep. Meng Gives Powerful Rebuke to GOP Chip Roy's Racist Remarks - Rolling Stone

During a House Judiciary Committee meeting on the rise of violence and discrimination against Asian Americans during the pandemic, Democratic Rep. Grace Meng strongly denounced Texas’ Republican Rep. Chip Roy’s earlier remarks where he spoke glowingly of his state’s history of “lynchings” and whined about political correctness getting in the way of using racist language.

In the wake of the horrific Atlanta shootings where a gunman killed eight people, including six women of Asian descent, Roy decided to use his opening statement to explain how he takes “justice very seriously” by praising vigilante justice. While doing so, Roy mistakenly recited a modern song lyric that glorified lynching and tried to claim it was an “old saying” from Texas.

After saying that the recent “victims and families deserve justice,” Roy made a callous pivot to off-topic grievances like immigration and the social justice protests this summer. He then said:

“There’s an old saying in Texas about ‘find all the rope in Texas and get a tall oak tree.’ You know, we take justice very seriously. And we ought to do that. Round up the bad guys. That’s what we believe.”

then

Grace Meng says Republicans 'putting a bull's-eye' on Asian Americans

"Our community is bleeding. We are in pain. And for the last year, we've been screaming out for help," Rep. Grace Meng, D-N.Y., said before a House Judiciary Committee subcommittee.

Responding to Republican lawmakers' arguments that the focus on hate crimes could hamper free speech, Meng told lawmakers they could criticize other countries, but "you don't have to do it by putting a bull's-eye on the back of Asian Americans across the county, on our grandparents, on our kids."

Getting visibly emotional, Meng said, "This hearing was to address the hurt and pain of our community, to find solutions. And we will not let you take our voice from us."

I note a deafening silence from right-wingers about anti-Asian violence and threats. They don't even try to be inclusive. They don't go out and say very loudly and publicly that people of Asian descent are not the enemy, that they are not the Chinese Communist Party leadership.

 

[Derec]

I selected another demographic that faces a lot of harsh press and discrimination. I know and you know and we all know that Muslim is not a race. I assumed you could follow. My apologies.

Honestly, the more this is going on the less I can follow your weird Muslim derail, so I suggest we just end it.

I have seen zero rejoicing at this tragedy.

Nuance: there is no rejoicing about the tragedy itself, but about the fact that a white man (and as far as the Left is concerned, by extension, white men in general) can be blamed for it. Just look at this thread, including the OP.

But then, we visit different news sites.

What is that supposed to mean?

 

[Toni]

Honestly, the more this is going on the less I can follow your weird Muslim derail, so I suggest we just end it.


Nuance: there is no rejoicing about the tragedy itself, but about the fact that a white man (and as far as the Left is concerned, by extension, white men in general) can be blamed for it. Just look at this thread, including the OP.

But then, we visit different news sites.

What is that supposed to mean?

I accept that you are unwilling to engage in a hypothetical situation where a Muslim shot up 3 Asian massage salons and the news coverage that might ensue.

I went back and re-read this thread and I don't see anything like rejoicing that the murderer is white. I see some disgust in the belief that he is being treated differently by LEOs and by media because he is white.

I see it differently. I'm glad that he was not shot but rather apprehended. I'm glad that law enforcement did their best to reassure the public that this was not a politically motivated act of terrorism but the actions of a very, very confused young man. I think that was valuable information. The general public and hopefully even though Asians were the targets, Asians can perhaps feel a little bit less apprehensive and fearful that they could be next. I think that the only way that law enforcement could have gained that information from the shooter was to show some empathy rather than exert violent control over him

This in no means indicates that I have any sympathy for anyone who kills people in such a senseless act of violence or for any reason. I am assuming that they caught the only shooter and that he is a very confused young man who lacks the abilty and resources to understand how to deal with his emotions without being violent. I'm glad he was apprehended and is in custody, awaiting charges and trial.

BUT: This is how I think ALL such cases should be handled by law enforcement: Do your best to apprehend the suspect as quickly and safely as possible and learn enough information as quickly as possible to allay any fears of the public about continued violence.

I'm pretty sure that you tend to read more right leaning news than I do.

 

[lpetrich]

'Model Minority' Myth Again Used As A Racial Wedge Between Asians And Blacks : Code Switch : NPR

Many scholars have argued that some Asians only started to "make it" when the discrimination against them lessened — and only when it was politically convenient. Amid worries that the Chinese exclusion laws from the late 1800s would hurt an allyship with China in the war against imperial Japan, the Magnuson Act was signed in 1943, allowing 105 Chinese immigrants into the U.S. each year. As Wu wrote in 2014 in the Los Angeles Times, the Citizens Committee to Repeal Chinese Exclusion "strategically recast Chinese in its promotional materials as 'law-abiding, peace-loving, courteous people living quietly among us'" instead of the "'yellow peril' coolie hordes." In 1965, the National Immigration Act replaced the national-origins quota system with one that gave preference to immigrants with U.S. family relationships and certain skills.

...
But as history shows, Asian-Americans were afforded better jobs not simply because of educational attainment, but in part because they were treated better.

"More education will help close racial wage gaps somewhat, but it will not resolve problems of denied opportunity," reporter Jeff Guo wrote last fall in the Washington Post. "Asian Americans — some of them at least — have made tremendous progress in the United States. But the greatest thing that ever happened to them wasn't that they studied hard, or that they benefited from tiger moms or Confucian values. It's that other Americans started treating them with a little more respect."

It's like what happened in the late 19th cy. and early 20th cy. when Irish, Italian, Eastern European, and Jewish immigrants became accepted as Real Honkies -- before that, it was only Nordics - Great-Britain people, Dutch, Germans, and Scandinavians were were often considered Real Honkies. But for some reason, Irish people didn't count as Nordics, even though genetically they are.

Even though Asian-Americans often do very well, they still have a way to go.
 Bamboo ceiling

As described by a senior writer at Fortune magazine, "bamboo ceiling" refers to the processes and barriers that serve to exclude Asians and Asian-Americans from executive positions on the basis of subjective factors such as "lack of leadership potential" and "lack of communication skills" that cannot actually be explained by job performance or qualifications.

...
Based on publicly available government statistics, Asian Americans have the lowest chance of rising to management when compared with African Americans, Hispanics and women in spite of having the highest educational attainment.

 

[Tigers!]

The killer will have a really bad day when he is executed.

You yanks have to get guns out of the hands of those who are unfit to hold them.

 

[lpetrich]

The real reasons the U.S. became less racist toward Asian Americans - The Washington Post

Between 1940 and 1970, something remarkable happened to Asian Americans. Not only did they surpass African Americans in average household earnings, but they also closed the wage gap with whites.

Many people credit this upward mobility to investments in education. But according to a recent study by Brown University economist Nathaniel Hilger, schooling rates among Asian Americans didn’t change all that significantly during those three decades. Instead, Hilger’s research suggests that Asian Americans started to earn more because their fellow Americans became less racist toward them.

Meaning that they became considered honorary honkies.

How did that happen? About the same time that Asian Americans were climbing the socioeconomic ladder, they also experienced a major shift in their public image. At the outset of the 20th century, Asian Americans had often been portrayed as threatening, exotic and degenerate. But by the 1950s and 1960s, the idea of the model minority had begun to take root. Newspapers often glorified Asian Americans as industrious, law-abiding citizens who kept their heads down and never complained.

Some people think that racism toward Asians diminished because Asians “proved themselves” through their actions. But that is only a sliver of the truth. Then, as now, the stories of successful Asians were elevated, while the stories of less successful Asians were diminished. As historian Ellen Wu explains in her book, “The Color of Success,” the model minority stereotype has a fascinating origin story, one that’s tangled up in geopolitics, the Cold War and the civil rights movement.

As to how the model-minority myth got started, it was in part from Asians trying to project an image of being virtuous citizens.

The model minority myth as we see it today was mainly an unintended outcome of earlier attempts by Asians Americans to be accepted and recognized as human beings. They wanted to be seen as American people who were worthy of respect and dignity.

In the 1960's,

Across the political spectrum, people looked to Asian Americans — in this case, Japanese and Chinese Americans — as an example of a solution, as a template for other minority groups to follow: “Look how they ended up! They’re doing just fine. And they did it all without political protests.”

That isn’t really true, by the way. Asian Americans did get political, but sometimes their efforts didn’t get seen or recognized.

That's something that it's hard to find anything of. It's easy to find stuff on black people's struggles, but not Asian ones' struggles.

 

[Elixir]

 

[Trausti]

'Model Minority' Myth Again Used As A Racial Wedge Between Asians And Blacks : Code Switch : NPR

Many scholars have argued that some Asians only started to "make it" when the discrimination against them lessened — and only when it was politically convenient. Amid worries that the Chinese exclusion laws from the late 1800s would hurt an allyship with China in the war against imperial Japan, the Magnuson Act was signed in 1943, allowing 105 Chinese immigrants into the U.S. each year. As Wu wrote in 2014 in the Los Angeles Times, the Citizens Committee to Repeal Chinese Exclusion "strategically recast Chinese in its promotional materials as 'law-abiding, peace-loving, courteous people living quietly among us'" instead of the "'yellow peril' coolie hordes." In 1965, the National Immigration Act replaced the national-origins quota system with one that gave preference to immigrants with U.S. family relationships and certain skills.

...
But as history shows, Asian-Americans were afforded better jobs not simply because of educational attainment, but in part because they were treated better.

"More education will help close racial wage gaps somewhat, but it will not resolve problems of denied opportunity," reporter Jeff Guo wrote last fall in the Washington Post. "Asian Americans — some of them at least — have made tremendous progress in the United States. But the greatest thing that ever happened to them wasn't that they studied hard, or that they benefited from tiger moms or Confucian values. It's that other Americans started treating them with a little more respect."

It's like what happened in the late 19th cy. and early 20th cy. when Irish, Italian, Eastern European, and Jewish immigrants became accepted as Real Honkies -- before that, it was only Nordics - Great-Britain people, Dutch, Germans, and Scandinavians were were often considered Real Honkies. But for some reason, Irish people didn't count as Nordics, even though genetically they are.

Even though Asian-Americans often do very well, they still have a way to go.
 Bamboo ceiling

As described by a senior writer at Fortune magazine, "bamboo ceiling" refers to the processes and barriers that serve to exclude Asians and Asian-Americans from executive positions on the basis of subjective factors such as "lack of leadership potential" and "lack of communication skills" that cannot actually be explained by job performance or qualifications.

...
Based on publicly available government statistics, Asian Americans have the lowest chance of rising to management when compared with African Americans, Hispanics and women in spite of having the highest educational attainment.

You might have to accept that there real differences in behavior between ethnic/racial groups. While East-Asians tend to be few in the higher echelons of corporate power, that is certainly not true of South-Asians.

 

[Trausti]

'Model Minority' Myth Again Used As A Racial Wedge Between Asians And Blacks : Code Switch : NPR

Many scholars have argued that some Asians only started to "make it" when the discrimination against them lessened — and only when it was politically convenient. Amid worries that the Chinese exclusion laws from the late 1800s would hurt an allyship with China in the war against imperial Japan, the Magnuson Act was signed in 1943, allowing 105 Chinese immigrants into the U.S. each year. As Wu wrote in 2014 in the Los Angeles Times, the Citizens Committee to Repeal Chinese Exclusion "strategically recast Chinese in its promotional materials as 'law-abiding, peace-loving, courteous people living quietly among us'" instead of the "'yellow peril' coolie hordes." In 1965, the National Immigration Act replaced the national-origins quota system with one that gave preference to immigrants with U.S. family relationships and certain skills.

...
But as history shows, Asian-Americans were afforded better jobs not simply because of educational attainment, but in part because they were treated better.

"More education will help close racial wage gaps somewhat, but it will not resolve problems of denied opportunity," reporter Jeff Guo wrote last fall in the Washington Post. "Asian Americans — some of them at least — have made tremendous progress in the United States. But the greatest thing that ever happened to them wasn't that they studied hard, or that they benefited from tiger moms or Confucian values. It's that other Americans started treating them with a little more respect."

It's like what happened in the late 19th cy. and early 20th cy. when Irish, Italian, Eastern European, and Jewish immigrants became accepted as Real Honkies -- before that, it was only Nordics - Great-Britain people, Dutch, Germans, and Scandinavians were were often considered Real Honkies. But for some reason, Irish people didn't count as Nordics, even though genetically they are.

Even though Asian-Americans often do very well, they still have a way to go.
 Bamboo ceiling

As described by a senior writer at Fortune magazine, "bamboo ceiling" refers to the processes and barriers that serve to exclude Asians and Asian-Americans from executive positions on the basis of subjective factors such as "lack of leadership potential" and "lack of communication skills" that cannot actually be explained by job performance or qualifications.

...
Based on publicly available government statistics, Asian Americans have the lowest chance of rising to management when compared with African Americans, Hispanics and women in spite of having the highest educational attainment.

Methinks the "Model Minority Myth" has nothing to do with interracial violence.

Racial violence spurred Asian students to take a stand

They were roaming the halls of South Philadelphia High School looking for a fight. Their target, according to police: Asian students.

 

[Trausti]

 

[Trausti]

An important topic, now more than ever.

I Was Taught to Be Proud of My Tight Asian P*ssy – Here’s Why I Wish I Hadn’t Been

 

[Elixir]

Why does Trausti feel that white mass murderers should be considered more innocent if there is doubt regarding the racist component of their motive?
Yesterday's white mass murderer captured alive didn't seem to have targeted people of any particular ethnicity. Still... captured alive.

 

[Trausti]

Why does Trausti feel that white mass murderers should be considered more innocent if there is doubt regarding the racist component of their motive?

Where did I write that?