White People Think Black People Are Magical

[Crazy Eddie]

BTW

the MN trope need not be inverted

It already has an "opposite"

The White Savior Trope

An occasional subversion would be nice. Say, the main (white) character seeks advice from the kindly old black man down the road, only to have that man stand up slowly and majestically, clear his throat and announce "Hell if I know. Try google."

 

[Togo]

It's one of many such tropes though, and not limited to Blacks, or Hollywood.

Strictly Ballroom involves the hero changing his life and the direction of his art through exposure to his ethnic minority dance partner. Just in case that wasn't enough, she's also dressed unattractively and wear thick black glasses. Little Lord Fauntleroy is a story about a crusty old man being redeemed by an innocent child, and Beauty and the Beast about a violent man being redeemed by his kind and gentle wife. We can argue about whether Beauty is explicitly or implicitly magical, but the curse is broken by her ability to resist and tolerate his violent rages, which is one heck of a moral. Beverly Hills Cop hits the stereotype too, and it forms the basis of most of the 80's "-and together they fight crime" films. In each case the person is redeemed and saved by introduction of someone outside his usual culture.

I think the only thing that distinguishes the 'magical negro' from other similar tropes is that the magical negro is almost always a passive moral force, that inspires the protagonist, rather than an agent in their own right. In The Matrix Neo's oracle can't use her power for anything other than personal development of others. They're passive, poor, and not publically respected. It harkens back to the idea of the working negro slave as a backdrop for spiritual harmony. I can see why that would annoying to an actor or actress, but they're not the only roles around, any more than UK actors are entirely stuck in the 'historical drama/comedy villain' circuit.

 

[KeepTalking]

I can judge trends as I see them.

I can study and take note of the history of the portrayal of black people across media

And most importantly

I can listen to black actors and believe them when they say they are tired of one note roles, not matter how beautifully drawn.

“I have been given a lot of roles that are downtrodden, mammy-ish. A lot of lawyers or doctors who have names but absolutely no lives,” she told The Times. “You’re going to get your three or four scenes, you’re not going to be able to show what you can do. You’re going to get your little bitty paycheck, and then you’re going to be hungry for your next role, which is going to be absolutely the same. That’s the truth.”

-- Viola Davis

You can find actors/actresses from all ethnicities lamenting the lack of good roles available to them. Acting is a tough business, especially when it comes to the movies. Here is the young white French actor Pierre Niney on the subject:

I think it’s lucky to be able to do theater, because you’re able to work—even when you’re young—on big, intense, complex characters. In cinema, it’s rare.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I can judge trends as I see them.

I can study and take note of the history of the portrayal of black people across media

And most importantly

I can listen to black actors and believe them when they say they are tired of one note roles, not matter how beautifully drawn.

-- Viola Davis

You can find actors/actresses from all ethnicities lamenting the lack of good roles available to them.

Which doesn't invalidates the trope or the complaints

Acting is a tough business, especially when it comes to the movies. Here is the young white French actor Pierre Niney on the subject:

I think it’s lucky to be able to do theater, because you’re able to work—even when you’re young—on big, intense, complex characters. In cinema, it’s rare.

and?

Doesn't invalidate the criticisms, movie history, or anything else.

There are many tropes, many injustices, many things wrong, many things right, but this is a discussion about one thing. If you want to discuss all the things, we can start a tropes thread.

 

[KeepTalking]

You can find actors/actresses from all ethnicities lamenting the lack of good roles available to them.

Which doesn't invalidates the trope or the complaints

Acting is a tough business, especially when it comes to the movies. Here is the young white French actor Pierre Niney on the subject:

I think it’s lucky to be able to do theater, because you’re able to work—even when you’re young—on big, intense, complex characters. In cinema, it’s rare.

and?

Doesn't invalidate the criticisms, movie history, or anything else.

What it does show is that complaining about the roles one has available is par for the course when it comes to actors and actresses in cinema. Movie history is one thing, and yes, I agree that black actors and actresses were historically marginalized, and not given a wide variety of roles until late in the '70's, or the '80's. There was a time when blacks could not even get roles in entertainment to portray their own ethnicity, and these roles were given to whites in blackface. That does not mean that the problem is perpetuated in entertainment and media today.

 

[One]

I am curious... How should black people be portrayed by media?

As human rather than accepted stereotypes. The range that white actors are allowed to play is staggering. It is not because a black person looks out of place in an epic about ancient vikings. It is because a movie about vikings will be produced while the one about black history outside of the spectrum of racism, crime, slavery or "magical negro sidekick" will often not.

Ethnic people have their own stories to tell that are not bankrolled by mainstream media or the entertainment industry. It isn't even because of the old saying "they won't make money." The big shots convinced themselves of this a long time ago to justify bias. Then everyone is struck dumb when a person like Tyler Perry comes on the scene. He was blocked in developing his films by some very heavy hitters in the industry for a long time. He was determined. Other people simply give up trying to attain that level.

The piece I will grant is that there is a history. Because there has historically been a significant amount of racism in the US, there is a history of that racism in movies, and in movie roles available to black people. Historically they were introduced to film in minor, supporting roles. This is true.

But to insist that this is still true is to deny the achievements of so many accomplished actors and actresses, so many stars of today that it leaves me baffled. There is no one who could possibly deny that Samuel L. Jackson, Will Smith, Morgan Freeman, Eddie Murphy, Michael Clarke Duncan, Laurence Fishburne, Mos Def, Whoopi Goldberg, Rosario Dawson, Denzel Washington, Wesley Snipes, Halle Berry, Jamie Foxx, Don Cheadle, Zoe Saldana, and lots more that I'm just not remembering right now, are all top notch, unparalleled actors in their own right. Not a one of those is in any way relegated to supporting roles.

As someone who has worked in the writing industry for a long time, I disagree with you a bit here. The people who purchase my work often do not even know what color I am. But I know from experience that scripts and stories can and will be rejected/revised if it does not play ball with classical stereotypes associated with ethnic people.

The issue today is not there are no roles. It is that the roles lack the depth and character development that is afforded to their white counterparts. In this, the ethnic character can only be portrayed in the way their narrative is accepted by a larger white consciousness. Productions that go outside of these paradigms find their funding has dried up or they are not released.

Pointing to cinema already produced does not help you either. Much of the issue stems from projects that are canceled stillbirths that never see the light of day and you don't hear about outside of the industry. That's where the real conflict is. And it is the same conflict that ends with a severe lack of large scale female and minority directors, production teams, studios, writing houses and producers. Those people are the ones who shape what you actually see in film and what actors are in front of you, particularly in big budget productions. And those heavy hitters are a majority of white men.

Saying this does not discredit the aforementioned successes. These actors have been instrumental in forcing the industry to hire writers who have a gift with words rather than the urge to simply get paid by any means possible. They've also widened the landscape for those coming after them. But there is still more work to do.

 

[Emily Lake]

Ethnic people have their own stories to tell that are not bankrolled by mainstream media or the entertainment industry. It isn't even because of the old saying "they won't make money." The big shots convinced themselves of this a long time ago to justify bias. Then everyone is struck dumb when a person like Tyler Perry comes on the scene. He was blocked in developing his films by some very heavy hitters in the industry for a long time. He was determined. Other people simply give up trying to attain that level.

Absolutely, there are plenty of stories to tell. Although why you would mention Tyler Perry, I'm not sure. Maybe his work has changed. I've seen a couple of his "Madea" movies, and I found them far more full of stereotypes and rote shallow roles than most of the black roles I've seen in a long time. I'd much rather watch anything by Ice Cube or Queen Latifa - at least those characters are actually people and not caricatures or black people.

Pointing to cinema already produced does not help you either. Much of the issue stems from projects that are canceled stillbirths that never see the light of day and you don't hear about outside of the industry. That's where the real conflict is. And it is the same conflict that ends with a severe lack of large scale female and minority directors, production teams, studios, writing houses and producers. Those people are the ones who shape what you actually see in film and what actors are in front of you, particularly in big budget productions. And those heavy hitters are a majority of white men.

Saying this does not discredit the aforementioned successes. These actors have been instrumental in forcing the industry to hire writers who have a gift with words rather than the urge to simply get paid by any means possible. They've also widened the landscape for those coming after them. But there is still more work to do.

Good points. There's always more work to do. Humans are fantastic as "Us and Them". I don't think that particular hurdle will ever be overcome... unless perhaps the green aliens with tentacles show up to really give us a them to unite against, I suppose.

 

[ksen]

Jamie Foxx was pretty magical in Horrible Bosses 2.

 

[Emily Lake]

I haven't seen that... but Jamie Foxx is pretty magical in pretty much everything. He's dreamy

 

[Angry Floof]

I'd much rather watch anything by Ice Cube or Queen Latifa - at least those characters are actually people and not caricatures or black people.

Oh, god, I love both of them so much. I loved the movie Taxi, which wasn't the best movie but Queen Latifah was wonderful. I liked the comic chemistry she had with Jimmy Fallon. The scene with the laughing gas... aaahhhhahahaha

 

[ksen]

I haven't seen that...

fix that

 

[Emily Lake]

I haven't seen that...

fix that

Is it better than the first one? Because Horrible Bosses was... well... kind of horrible. Not the worst thing I've seen, but not what I'd call "quality cinema" either.

Wait... hmm.. I may be thinking of the wrong movie. What was the one where they tried to shove the car made of gold into the elevator? Because that was really bad.

ETA: Tower Heist. Tower Heist was bad. I don't think I've seen Horrible Bosses at all. I may have to remedy that oversight.

 

[ksen]

fix that

Is it better than the first one? Because Horrible Bosses was... well... kind of horrible. Not the worst thing I've seen, but not what I'd call "quality cinema" either.

wat!?

Horrible Bosses was very funny. No, it wasn't "quality cinema" but it wasn't intended to be that. But it was still a good movie. HB2 wasn't as good but was still worth going to see and had some laugh until you cry moments.

Wait... hmm.. I may be thinking of the wrong movie. What was the one where they tried to shove the car made of gold into the elevator? Because that was really bad.

Oh, I know what movie you're talking about but I can't remember the name of it. That's a different movie than Horrible Bosses. The gold car movie had Ben Stiller as a hotel manager that gets fired. Yeah, that one was a stinker.

eta: yes to your eta

 

[Toni]

Part of the reason that they remain so pervasive is because we reproduce them in popular culture pretty often. There exists a catalogue of negative ways that African American women have been characterized. At one point I talk about the Mammy figure in the “Sex in the City” series and in the first Sex in the City film. If I were to say there are Mammies in Sex in the City people might ask me what I was talking about. There are no black housekeepers, but what we do see are these black women who are actually inconsequential characters and who we typically never see again. They pop up in white women’s lives with these magical abilities. They come in, and despite having resources or being younger, are able to fix all of the problems that the white women are having.
At its core, that’s actually what the Mammy image is. It’s the idea that an African American woman might have skills, talents, and capacities, but they’re never put to use for herself. They’re never used to follow her own dreams or to nurture her own family or community. Instead, these skills, talents, and capabilities are always put to use assisting white women or white families. We see this pretty regularly deployed in contemporary media.

- See more at: http://madamenoire.com/73961/ain’t-...ood-in-“sister-citizen”/#sthash.tfFb9U7n.dpuf

Eh, I don't agree re: Sex and the City and black characters. Yes, the article is correct that there are very few black characters and that most appear on only a single episode but I can't think of any who did not act on her own, for her own benefit, at least in the series. See the episode re: power lesbians, for one thing. The black restauranteur was female, powerful and acting for her own benefit (and in her opinion, the benefit of her brother). In this single attempt to address race in the series, I think it is legitimate to say that she fulfilled the role of Angry Black Woman. But then, Samantha fulfilled the stereotype of privileged white woman attempting to fit into a stereotype of black culture and being ridiculous by doing so.

Now, if you want to talk the SATC movies (yes, I am a bit embarrassed that I have seen them both as well as most of the SATC series episodes), the second one is a nasty bit of racist crap from start to finish. Jennifer Hudson's character in the first of the films was an 'assistant' and the fact that she was black was inconsequential to the role. She was not 'magical' except in the sense that she was young, and new to NYC and not as jaded as her boss and this 'fresh perspective' was what allowed her to help Carrie, not her blackness. The character would have hardly been different if she had been white, Asian or Latina, although I cannot conceive of SATC having a Latina character without plenty of edge to her.

While I agree that popular culture and indeed 'science,' including medical science, has often credited black people with extraordinary powers of strength and endurance and ability to withstand pain, and that these attitudes were/are rooted in racism, I don't see them as 'magical' so much as viewing black people as being more 'animalistic' and this extends to perceptions about sexual maturity and prowess, athleticism, the ability to dance, play certain kinds of music and I am certain other areas I am forgetting. In popular culture, yes, there are plenty of stereotypes of black people engaging in black magic or voodoo and being wise in ways that 'normal' that is white folks are not.

Similarly such stereotypes also exist about Asians (and are extended to include prowess in mathematics and computer science) and to Native Americans and Latinos.

Despite all of these supposedly 'superior' talents and abilities, white folks still find ways to believe that non-whites are inferior.

It's all racist garbage but much of this type of racism is rooted in the subconsciously absorbed cultural beliefs.

As far as media: well, I think it's not hatred as I have seen asserted so much as it is a very narrow viewpoint of what will earn money at the box office. Profit is the only real motive in Hollywood. We need more black writers, producers and directors, especially more black women in these roles.

 

[Emily Lake]

Similarly such stereotypes also exist about Asians (and are extended to include prowess in mathematics and computer science) and to Native Americans and Latinos.

Despite all of these supposedly 'superior' talents and abilities, white folks still find ways to believe that non-whites are inferior.

You make some good points, Toni, most of which I don't see any need to address

I'd like to comment on this one, only because I think it's being "over-thought". I don't think it's nearly that complex. I can certainly see your view on it, and I understand the historical perspective that drives it. It's not wrong, by any means. I just wish to offer an alternative, more base hypothesis for consideration.

Humans have always been tribal, and we still are. Our minds work through abstractions, pattern recognition, and classification. Our subconscious is a master of "like" and "not like" comparisons. We make comparisons, and we form groups. I belong to this family, this club, this community, I work at this company, I have these friends, I'm part of this culture... I'm part of this forum . I'm a member of X. We go through life constantly comparing how much we have in common with other people, and how different we are. It's not done consciously, it's something we can't stop ourselves from doing.

Hi, I'm Emily. I have brown hair - you have brown hair too! :Mine is also straight and fine, isn't that a pin when you want to go somewhere fancy with a nice updo, and it just won't cooperate? Yes, I also am short, it's so hard to see in a crowd when you can't see past people's shoulder, isn't it? I totally get that! Yes, I went to school in Colorado too! Wasn't Fort Collins lovely! Is Avogadro's Number still selling bottomless cups of flavored coffee until 2 AM? Yes I also have green eyes - do you also like to wear deep purple to make them show up even more? No, I don't have any kids... No I don't have a dog... No I don't like mountain climbing... I guess we don't have much in common after all...

For the overwhelming majority of our evolutionary history, "Other" is foreign, and foreign is strange. "Other" does things that don't make sense to our tribe. They have ways that are frightening, they have practices that are at odds with what we know, and they know things that we don't. In short, they have magic that we don't have.

You speak of the "magical negro", but I think there's just as strong a stereotype for the "magical asian man" and the "magical native american" and the "magical hindu". Any sufficiently different culture, with sufficiently different background, religion, beliefs, and practices will take on some aspect of magic. I think this is exasperated when any of those practices or beliefs incorporate an aspect of the supernatural. When their gods or their religion incorporates enough strangeness in comparison to what is "normal" for the observer, then it will seem magical.

Approaching this from the perspective of a white person, then yes, all of those archetypes are there. Approach this from the perspective of a Native American first exposed to Europeans, however, and the opposite is also true: the white man on the shore was magical.

I think that part of what we're seeing is that those archetypes have been subsumed by sheer numbers. In that process, they begin to take on the characteristics of mythos. The genie in the lamp will always be Arabic. Not because of an ingrained racism against Arabic peoples (although that might also exist independently), but because the archetype of the mystical Arabic vizier, the stories and legends of Scheherzade and Ali Baba and Aladin have become absorbed into our mythos. The unassailable kung fu master will always be Chinese, not because of any ingrained racial profiling, but because that has become the legend and the myth that our culture has absorbed.

The kung fu master may take on many names, the djinn may have many faces and variations, the shaman will show up in many masks, the yogi won't always conform to the Bhagavad Gita. But the archetypes will show up again and again in fiction. So do the Greco-roman gods and heroes, so do the Norse. Arthur and Lancelot wear many guises, but they reappear over and over because their archetypes are part of our mythos, and part of our culture.

Athena, goddess of wisdom, goddess of technology and useful crafts, goddess of war - not of the fury and bloodshed of battle, but of strategy and planning, of tactics and the inevitability of change - she shows up over and over throughout our media. She even shows up on our forum.

So I submit for consideration the the "magical negro" may not be intended as a degradation, or as a secondary role, or even as a subconscious way to keep black people down. All other aspects of racism notwithstanding, for there are many as both you and Athena have pointed out... I think that the "magical negro" may be an entry into mythos.

Which isn't a bad thing. Mythos lasts forever, after all.

I apologize for the Wall of Text.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Jamie Foxx was pretty magical in Horrible Bosses 2.

Actually his appearance in the first one was a subversion of the trope when it turned out that he had NO IDEA how to actually do any of the things they were asking for.

"No, YOU'RE a dumbass. You don't walk into a bar and give a man ten thousand dollars just cuz he's black!"

 

[Thomas II]

Why is no one talking about magical Jews?

I was just thinking about that...

Do you mean with the Nazis?

How about Jesus? Was Jesus the Magical Jew with the Romans? You know, give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar...?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic...cinema of the,a tradition in American fiction.

 

[Bullmoose Too]

My favorite magical black person is a 2/2 with first strike and protection from white.

 

[Gospel]

I believe this topic was revived because of my post here in case anyone is wondering.

In my opinion, while the trope may still occasionally appear (e.g., Finn in The Force Awakens and Don Shirley in Green Book), its prevalence has significantly diminished.

 

[Gospel]

Why is no one talking about magical Jews?

I was just thinking about that...

Do you mean with the Nazis?

How about Jesus? Was Jesus the Magical Jew with the Romans? You know, give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar...?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_Negro#:~:text=In the cinema of the,a tradition in American fiction.

I can see Jesus as a magical Jewish figure. His role was a form of public relations, where he translated and communicated God's messages and actions in a way that was more palatable and understandable to the people. Resulting in the betterment of countless lives. Allegedly.

I can't recall exactly where I first encountered these tropes, but growing up, I often thought Jewish males were either overly concerned with money or elderly, wise men with white beards. I'm certain they've been pigeonholed into specific roles, but I can't pinpoint exactly where I first learned these portrayals.