Who is responsible for pregnancies? (Derail from: Policies that will reduce abortions)

[TomC]

No, it doesn't really.

I have a higher opinion of women than you seem to have.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And yet, women often engage in sex--voluntarily--that results in unwanted pregnancies.

If women absolutely want to avoid unwanted pregnancies, they should avoid penis-in-vagina sex.

So the choice is... Either women are held 100% responsible for the outcome, or they shouldn't have sex ever. Men bear none of the responsibility... they just get the pleasure and the fun. If a chick gets herself knocked up, well, that's her fault for having sex, right?

The discussion wasn't about who is responsible for the outcome (a baby), it was more about who is responsible for getting pregnant. I thought.

I thought that was all Newsom's fault. Let's Go Brandon!

 

[laughing dog]

No, it doesn't really.

I have a higher opinion of women than you seem to have.
Tom

There is little evidence to support that claim.

 

[laughing dog]

But not the release of sperm in a vagina.

It's voluntary--on both sides. A woman who allows sperm to be released into her vagina is just as responsible as the man who released it.

Honestly? If women could just tell the guy not to release his sperm inside her—and enforce it—there would be very few unintended pregnancies and so women could dispense with birth control that is expensive, inconvenient, comes with varying degrees of side effects, etc.

But women do not control men’s ejaculations.

Most unintended pregnancies are from consensual sex.

Do you have an actual point or is just another irrelevant interjection?

Your posts miss the real point - that the woman bears the responsibility of carrying the fetus to term.

You're moving the goalposts.

No, you never understood the goalposts. This entire thread is a splitoff from Rhea's abortion thread. It is based on the judged derail about the discussion that since a woman bears the entire cresponsibility of carrying to term she should have the right to determine what happens to her body.

 

[laughing dog]

No, it doesn't really.

I have a higher opinion of women than you seem to have.
Tom

There is little evidence to support your claim.

 

[laughing dog]

But not the release of sperm in a vagina.

It's voluntary--on both sides. A woman who allows sperm to be released into her vagina is just as responsible as the man who released it.

Honestly? If women could just tell the guy not to release his sperm inside her—and enforce it—there would be very few unintended pregnancies and so women could dispense with birth control that is expensive, inconvenient, comes with varying degrees of side effects, etc.

But women do not control men’s ejaculations.

Most unintended pregnancies are from consensual sex.

Most is not all.

Women have plenty of sex without risking pregnancy. In fact, a woman can have as much sex as she likes without becoming pregnant so long as no man is involved. It's only when sperm is deposited within proximity to an available egg that there's a potential pregnancy.

Which has nothing to do with my point.

But it has everything to do with my premise which started this unfortunate derail that got split into its own thread: every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. If men would just control themselves, women would not have to worry about unwanted pregnancies.

After all, women can enjoy a lot of sex that has not a single thing to do with a penis or ejaculating.

And yet, women often engage in sex--voluntarily--that results in unwanted pregnancies.

If women absolutely want to avoid unwanted pregnancies, they should avoid penis-in-vagina sex.

As usual, you miss the point. The point that is clearly lost on you is that women bear the entire physical responsibility of carrying a fertilized ovum to term which means that they (and no one else) should have the right to make whatever medical decisions that need to be made.

 

[TSwizzle]

And yet, women often engage in sex--voluntarily--that results in unwanted pregnancies.

If women absolutely want to avoid unwanted pregnancies, they should avoid penis-in-vagina sex.

So the choice is... Either women are held 100% responsible for the outcome, or they shouldn't have sex ever. Men bear none of the responsibility... they just get the pleasure and the fun. If a chick gets herself knocked up, well, that's her fault for having sex, right?

The discussion wasn't about who is responsible for the outcome (a baby), it was more about who is responsible for getting pregnant. I thought.

I thought that was all Newsom's fault. Let's Go Brandon!

On one of the least interesting forums to exist on the internet, Jimmy makes it that little bit less interesting with his hilarious repartee. Bravo Jimmy, take a bow you bore.

And off to ignore you go.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

But not the release of sperm in a vagina.

It's voluntary--on both sides. A woman who allows sperm to be released into her vagina is just as responsible as the man who released it.

Honestly? If women could just tell the guy not to release his sperm inside her—and enforce it—there would be very few unintended pregnancies and so women could dispense with birth control that is expensive, inconvenient, comes with varying degrees of side effects, etc.

But women do not control men’s ejaculations.

Most unintended pregnancies are from consensual sex.

Most is not all.

Women have plenty of sex without risking pregnancy. In fact, a woman can have as much sex as she likes without becoming pregnant so long as no man is involved. It's only when sperm is deposited within proximity to an available egg that there's a potential pregnancy.

Which has nothing to do with my point.

But it has everything to do with my premise which started this unfortunate derail that got split into its own thread: every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. If men would just control themselves, women would not have to worry about unwanted pregnancies.

After all, women can enjoy a lot of sex that has not a single thing to do with a penis or ejaculating.

And if you didn't admit a penis to your vagina you would have a near zero risk of an unintended pregnancy. The woman is just as responsible for inviting it in as the man is for going in. Or are women not really people that can be expected to take care of themselves?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You let a penis in, the expectation should be that there will be sperm unless you have previously agreed on withdrawal or have been told there is no sperm.

Let me get this straight. In your view, if a woman allows a man to have sex with her, then she is completely 100% responsible for the risk and the burden of his sperm. The man is absolved of responsibility, and it's completely on the shoulders of the woman to make sure she doesn't "get herself knocked up"?

Are you really going for "If you don't want the risk of getting preggers, don't have sex, you slutty slutty slut-face"?

I'm saying both are responsible. I'm objecting to the position of declaring it all the man's fault.

 

[Toni]

But not the release of sperm in a vagina.

It's voluntary--on both sides. A woman who allows sperm to be released into her vagina is just as responsible as the man who released it.

Honestly? If women could just tell the guy not to release his sperm inside her—and enforce it—there would be very few unintended pregnancies and so women could dispense with birth control that is expensive, inconvenient, comes with varying degrees of side effects, etc.

But women do not control men’s ejaculations.

Most unintended pregnancies are from consensual sex.

Most is not all.

Women have plenty of sex without risking pregnancy. In fact, a woman can have as much sex as she likes without becoming pregnant so long as no man is involved. It's only when sperm is deposited within proximity to an available egg that there's a potential pregnancy.

Which has nothing to do with my point.

But it has everything to do with my premise which started this unfortunate derail that got split into its own thread: every unwanted pregnancy begins with some man’s ejaculation. If men would just control themselves, women would not have to worry about unwanted pregnancies.

After all, women can enjoy a lot of sex that has not a single thing to do with a penis or ejaculating.

And if you didn't admit a penis to your vagina you would have a near zero risk of an unintended pregnancy. The woman is just as responsible for inviting it in as the man is for going in. Or are women not really people that can be expected to take care of themselves?

This is not at all true. You are assuming that women always consent to having a penis inside her vagina.

I will admit it is very gratifying that at least some men are willing to acknowledge their responsibility in causing a pregnancy Quite refreshing

 

[Toni]

No, it doesn't really.

I have a higher opinion of women than you seem to have.
Tom

Obviously you do not. You fully expect women to have consented to whatever sex and pregnancy results from going to some guy’s place or having a drink or several. Your post reeks with absolute misogyny.

 

[TomC]

You are assuming that women always consent to having a penis inside her vagina.

I don't know anyone who ever said that.

But, I suppose you have to keep up your feminist world view. It's always the man's fault. No matter what.
Tom

 

[TomC]

Obviously you do not.

I consider women quite capable of making their own decisions. You, obviously, do not.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Obviously you do not.

I consider women quite capable of making their own decisions. You, obviously, do not.
Tom

???

You seem to think they are making irresponsible decisions. The biggest reason for crisis pregnancies is irresponsible sex. Irresponsible sex of a specific kind, Penis in Vagina sex.

How about we stop acting and talking about PiV sex as an entitlement or something that just happens? Recognize it as a powerful force in humans and carrys a big risk?
How about that?

It used to be called "propriety". People who weren't willing and able to take care of children were expected to avoid situations that might result creating children. Propriety came to be seen as conservative oppression and kinda went away since the 60s.

Then when it comes to abortion, you think you need to make that decision for the woman, instead of letting her choose.

So no, you don't really think "women quite capable of making their own decisions."

 

[TomC]

You seem to think they are making irresponsible decisions. The biggest reason for crisis pregnancies is irresponsible sex. Irresponsible sex of a specific kind, Penis in Vagina sex.

That's exactly what I mean. "They", men and women, are making irresponsible Choices.

How hard is that to understand?
Tom

 

[TomC]

Then when it comes to abortion, you think you need to make that decision for the woman, instead of letting her choose.

I've never said that because I don't believe it.

Biological science dictates which parent does the gestating. Since she's stuck with that part, I'm totally good with requiring him to provide child support. 18 years worth of payments.

I'd rather parents didn't have irresponsible sex and make babies they have no intention of properly caring for.

And no, I don't think being female makes you a victim of a man when your Choices don't work out as intended. I do think women are as competent as men.

I realize that feminists disagree. That's why I'm not a feminist.
Tom

 

[fromderinside]

Since we know how to produce test tube babies why don't we just change laws so that model is followed as much as it can be followed? Take the onus from either of the sex contributors. Have the state pay for whatever human participation is required in the process of baby making and rearing.

Imperative we get deities out of the arena. If you want to worship something you should pay the market price for repairing whatever that worship costs.

 

[laughing dog]

You seem to think they are making irresponsible decisions. The biggest reason for crisis pregnancies is irresponsible sex. Irresponsible sex of a specific kind, Penis in Vagina sex.

That's exactly what I mean. "They", men and women, are making irresponsible Choices.

How hard is that to understand?
Tom

Perhaps readers are trying to find a deeper meaning than the rather simplistic judgment you are making.

 

[laughing dog]

Obviously you do not.

I consider women quite capable of making their own decisions.

Except when it cones to carrying a fetus to term

You, obviously, do not.
Tom

Toni is not anti-abortion, so you are incorrect.

 

[Toni]

Since we know how to produce test tube babies why don't we just change laws so that model is followed as much as it can be followed? Take the onus from either of the sex contributors. Have the state pay for whatever human participation is required in the process of baby making and rearing.

Imperative we get deities out of the arena. If you want to worship something you should pay the market price for repairing whatever that worship costs.

We know how to make an embryo grow to a multicellular state outside a womb but not beyond 3-5 days after fertilization.

Retrieval of ova is expensive and medically intrusive and potentially risky. To the woman, so I suppose that’s OK.

Men just need to jerk off into a cup.