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Why create the damned?

Ironic that many Nazi scientists worked for the United States during and after the "fall" of the Nazi party. Ironic that the meticulousness of those scientists makes for a more pleasant visit at the dentist for me today. That isn't some messed up little allusion for damnation avatars and whatever they're talking about. Godless and odd people they are but fun read. I'm a Baptist taught that it is a sin to tell someone that they are damned. I don't think someone with decent values is damned even if they are too stupid or too smart to accept the love of God. Maybe they just replay a Godless life like an echo after they die. Maybe try praying next time deja vu hits. I don't know and would care very little if I did. The eternal ten seconds after a huge Morphine shot awaits me man.
 
Ah, The Hell With It


A play in one scene°, by WilliamB

Characters—

GOD, ineffably* [et al]

WilliamB, a guy
DBT, a guest
fromderinside, a guest


Act One. Scene one°. Arizona desert. An apartment. A room. A desk, with an end-table on either side. A bed. Piles of books. WilliamB sits at desk, a bowl of cheesy poofs on end-table beside him, a cigarette burning in an ashtray on end-table to his left. God appears* to WilliamB.



GOD: WilliamB, I have a proposal for you.

WilliamB: (shakily) Okay, Lord.

GOD: How about I give you another son? Only this one'll be a real bastard. He'll be so bad, you'll have to tie him up, blindfold him, and stick him in the closet until he's eighteen.

WilliamB: (worriedly) Lord, that doesn't sound so good. Will I get a chance to work on him with love, like I did my other boys?

GOD: No.

WilliamB: (tremblingly): Um, Lord, am I allowed to decline this propo...

GOD: (loudly and authoritatively [and sounding remarkably like GOD Who did a cameo in Monty Python's 'Holy Grail'; also ineffably, see*]) Of course not!


(There is a knock at the front door of the apartment. WilliamB rises, walks down the corridor, through the living room, and opens the door. DBT and fromderinside, dressed as angels, are standing on the step. DBT is holding a can of Foster's®; fromderinside looks bored.)


DBT: (holds out the can of beer cheerfully) Here ya go, mate. Yer gonna need it! (flies off, wings beating rapidly)

GOD:(literary-allusionly) Admit them! Admit them!

fromderinside: (wryly) There's no 'them'. Gabriel buggered off.

GOD: Is that you, Michael?

fromderinside: (aside) Mr. Know-it-all...

(curtain)
 
another1 said:
Ironic that many Nazi scientists worked for the United States during and after the "fall" of the Nazi party. Ironic that the meticulousness of those scientists makes for a more pleasant visit at the dentist for me today. That isn't some messed up little allusion for damnation avatars and whatever they're talking about. Godless and odd people they are but fun read. I'm a Baptist taught that it is a sin to tell someone that they are damned. I don't think someone with decent values is damned even if they are too stupid or too smart to accept the love of God. Maybe they just replay a Godless life like an echo after they die. Maybe try praying next time deja vu hits. I don't know and would care very little if I did. The eternal ten seconds after a huge Morphine shot awaits me man.
Click to expand...

You might want to ponder the purpose of witness before posting,
 
DBT said:
I have to ask...how can you possibly guarantee that?
Click to expand...

Say things with certainty!

I think he is trying to avoid the issue by minimizing the spiritual growth and learning side of the equation, and painting life as a proving ground,
 
another1 said:
Ironic that many Nazi scientists worked for the United States during and after the "fall" of the Nazi party.
Click to expand...
Um...where's the irony? Experts in their field got work in their field?
And why the quotes around fall?
Do you think the Nazi party (and the entire nation, army, etc.) didn't really fall? What are you trying to say?
Ironic that the meticulousness of those scientists makes for a more pleasant visit at the dentist for me today.
Click to expand...
Scientists aren't supposed to be meticulous? Or only Nazi scientists were meticulous?
I'm confused.
That isn't some messed up little allusion for damnation avatars and whatever they're talking about. Godless and odd people they are but fun read.
Click to expand...
Um...okay. Nazis tended to think they were doing God's work, but whatever.
I'm a Baptist taught that it is a sin to tell someone that they are damned.
Click to expand...
Do you mean that pointing it out is a sin? Or is it arrogance to assume that you, as a mortal, can identify how God is going to decide on a soul-by-soul basis?
Because a lot of Baptists i've known won't hesitate to identify hell-bent behavior, though they do footnote it a lot.
I don't think someone with decent values is damned even if they are too stupid or too smart to accept the love of God. Maybe they just replay a Godless life like an echo after they die.
Click to expand...
So, we don't go to Hell, we just keep repeating the life that didn't get us into heaven the first time? And this is part of God's plan to keep us out of hell by....um. What?
Maybe try praying next time deja vu hits. I don't know and would care very little if I did. The eternal ten seconds after a huge Morphine shot awaits me man.
Click to expand...
Are you....on...something?
 
I have pondered. I do think Morphine and an orgasm simultaneously for eternity is pretty much Heaven to me. I left out cocaine. A lot of cocaine. God made it - can't hate it. Nonbelievers on the internet are better witnesses than I, so let them witness. I'll just make myself laugh and learn a little. That post was a response to ideology hunter but I forgot to quote btw
 
Never give a sucker an even break?


Speaking of suckers, got a question about gravity over here in the natural science subforum

 
How's your Quiche Lorraine?

It's excellent, and stop calling me Lorraine.

^I actually had this exchange once in a chat room, many years ago. I lied to some lady I was flirting with and told her I was a chef, when all I was was a cook. An institutional cook, no less. But I did make a mean quiche. Not Lorraine. I've never made a Lorraine. I've never known a Lorraine.

I want you all to call me Loretta.
 
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dockeen said:
I started a thread on this in the old forum, but it was not taken up. Being stupid, I will try again.

Many Xtians would tell you that there are the elect, and everybody else. The everybody else are doomed to suffer eternal damnation.
Now, here is my question. It the damned are here for a purpose, to serve an important role in the salvation of the elect, then why
use "real" souls to fulfill the role of the damned creatures. Use avatars, agents, whatever you want to call them to play out the
right role. Now, you no longer have the elect and the damned, but the elect and disposable props, that do not require eternal
damnation?
Click to expand...

The whole business about "the elect" is more or less exclusive to Calvinists, isn't it? I know that covers a number of denominations, but still, I don't think it's fair to paint all Christians with this broad brush.
 
Underseer said:
dockeen said:
I started a thread on this in the old forum, but it was not taken up. Being stupid, I will try again.

Many Xtians would tell you that there are the elect, and everybody else. The everybody else are doomed to suffer eternal damnation.
Now, here is my question. It the damned are here for a purpose, to serve an important role in the salvation of the elect, then why
use "real" souls to fulfill the role of the damned creatures. Use avatars, agents, whatever you want to call them to play out the
right role. Now, you no longer have the elect and the damned, but the elect and disposable props, that do not require eternal
damnation?
Click to expand...

The whole business about "the elect" is more or less exclusive to Calvinists, isn't it? I know that covers a number of denominations, but still, I don't think it's fair to paint all Christians with this broad brush.
Click to expand...

Actually, if one believes in a temporally omniscient god, god already knows who the "winners and losers" are. All that has to be done then is to replace the losers with agents who play the role the losers would have played.
 
Underseer said:
dockeen said:
I started a thread on this in the old forum, but it was not taken up. Being stupid, I will try again.

Many Xtians would tell you that there are the elect, and everybody else. The everybody else are doomed to suffer eternal damnation.
Now, here is my question. It the damned are here for a purpose, to serve an important role in the salvation of the elect, then why
use "real" souls to fulfill the role of the damned creatures. Use avatars, agents, whatever you want to call them to play out the
right role. Now, you no longer have the elect and the damned, but the elect and disposable props, that do not require eternal
damnation?
Click to expand...

The whole business about "the elect" is more or less exclusive to Calvinists, isn't it? I know that covers a number of denominations, but still, I don't think it's fair to paint all Christians with this broad brush.
Click to expand...

The 'elect' isn't exclusive to Calvinists, I believe it was a biggy with Luther as well. It does have some Biblical support, but then again, just about any theological proposition can have Biblical support. Shakespeare: 'The devil can cite scripture to his purpose.' (I paraphrase from memory, but that's pretty close.)

In my opinion (Sorry God, if I'm wrong!) is that the concept of 'the elect' makes religion, faith, the whole Judeo-Christian tradition, completely pointless.

If I tie a man's legs together, and then expect him to win a race with a man whose legs are NOT tied together, how can I damn him to eternity, since I tied his legs together?

It's nonsense. And a huge insult to God. If I'm wrong, then I guess I'm going to hell. But, like I've said, I consider it my duty as a follower of Christ to WANT to go to hell rather than spend Eternity knowing that millions of souls are suffering and I can't do anything about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva

Maybe I've got it all wrong and I'm supposed to be a Buddhist?

(Just kidding, Lord)

:joy:
 
Heh, good one.
You're worried about an insult to a god that solves the problem of grown men being taunted by children with sending bears to tare them up.

But being unfair is somehow beneath him...
 
Underseer said:
dockeen said:
I started a thread on this in the old forum, but it was not taken up. Being stupid, I will try again.

Many Xtians would tell you that there are the elect, and everybody else. The everybody else are doomed to suffer eternal damnation.
Now, here is my question. It the damned are here for a purpose, to serve an important role in the salvation of the elect, then why
use "real" souls to fulfill the role of the damned creatures. Use avatars, agents, whatever you want to call them to play out the
right role. Now, you no longer have the elect and the damned, but the elect and disposable props, that do not require eternal
damnation?
Click to expand...

The whole business about "the elect" is more or less exclusive to Calvinists, isn't it? I know that covers a number of denominations, but still, I don't think it's fair to paint all Christians with this broad brush.
Click to expand...

No. Martin Luther was explicit. Free will is impossible. See his book "Bondage of the will". As were a lot of theologians following Luther/Calvin. Arminians believe in free will. Methodists follow Arminianism.
 
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