Why is it only white people that are racist?

[laughing dog]

Wrong again. I never claimed it the racist intent had to be open.

Correct. You're just jumping from one double standard to another to justify your hypocrisy.

This is getting tiring. You have made to two obvious false claims about my position. Without explaining what double standard you feel I have, this appears to be a third false claim.

 

[Bomb#20]

And what are border controls if not assigning collective guilt to a disfavored group to justify racial animus?

Border controls are enforcement of rules made up by those with the power to do it. Duh. When our border guards ask Canadians different questions from Americans, that means we're claiming they're guilty? Where do you get this stuff? And racial animus? Good god! Exactly which race do you figure Canadians are? Seriously, dude, you make the daftest arguments.

The fact is that definitions are derived from mass usage; One person using a word in a fashion inconsistent with the dictionary is using the word wrongly; ... Indeed, these simple and observable facts about how words are defined, are a clear rebuttal to the crazy idea that 'collectives', 'societies' or 'groups' don't really exist, and that all that exists are individuals.

So you figure when "group" is used to mean "a set with a closed associative invertible operation with an identity element", only by one kid, sitting in jail, writing notes to himself, that means he's using the word wrongly?

IF that idea were true, then either one individual could unilaterally change the meaning of any word, and language would be impossible, which we can see it is not; OR the meanings of words could never change, which we also know to be untrue. So that idea must be false - there must be a collective (or collectives) with the power to change the meanings of words, while no individual has that power.

It's painfully obvious that one individual in point of fact can unilaterally change the meaning of a word. And it's painfully obvious that this power of individuals does not make language impossible. What on earth gave you the notion that it would? Seriously, dude, you make the daftest arguments.

 

[repoman]

>white parents will unconsciously impart internal racism onto persons of color they adopt.

>white people having white children are furthering institutional white supremacy

>whites are unfit to be parents

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

>white parents will unconsciously impart internal racism onto persons of color they adopt.

>white people having white children are furthering institutional white supremacy

>whites are unfit to be parents

>white supremacists work hard to normalize their radical ideology as reasonably conservative ideology.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

WTF.

The problem is you are looking at it as A => B, therefore fixing A will fix B.

Reality is A => B => C => B => C => D. Fixing A will do noting about D even though A was necessary for D.

WTF?!?! Is this an actual attempt to explain something? You took Toni's position and whittles it down to a nonsensical and not remotely equivalent form of... heck I don't even know what that is supposed to be.

Then you debunk your shit simplification by expanding on your nonsense.

 

[J842P]

Racism also means taking actions based on racial differences. That's the sense I'm using it in.

You are free to redefine words any way you wish in order to make rhetorical points. AA is not racism by the traditionally accepted meaning. And whether it is racism by your meaning depends on how it is implemented.

AA, as practiced in the United States by many Universities, is very racist.

I'll ask this again, but why should my Korean friend, whose dad was a essentially a skilled laborer with a high-school education, have had a significantly harder time than me getting in to the same schools, with similar grades, test-scores, and extra-curriculars, solely based on his race? His family wasn't dirt poor, but they were far from rich. My own family was quite well off, and my father was an economist who held graduate degrees and worked at an international financial institution.


I know it wasn't my essay...

Or maybe it's just that I'm crazy - me and everyone I know - and Universities don't favor black and hispanic kids over white and Asian kids based on their race.

 

[laughing dog]

You are free to redefine words any way you wish in order to make rhetorical points. AA is not racism by the traditionally accepted meaning. And whether it is racism by your meaning depends on how it is implemented.

AA, as practiced in the United States by many Universities, is very racist.....

Your examples focus on admissions, not hiring or promotions. None of your examples in admission are racist under the traditional meaning of the word.

Do you mean that AA in the US as practiced in admissions by many Universities is unfair or prejudiced?

 

[J842P]

AA, as practiced in the United States by many Universities, is very racist.....

Your examples focus on admissions, not hiring or promotions. None of your examples in admission are racist under the traditional meaning of the word.

Do you mean that AA in the US as practiced in admissions by many Universities is unfair or prejudiced?

Of course they are racist. The traditional meaning of the word is "prejudice based on race", and that is *exactly* what we see in college admissions. They are unfair due to prejudice based on race. They are unfair because of racism. Of course, people are apt to deny racism, so it isn't surprising that most will. But it is plain as day.

I have brought this up several times for at least a decade. Originally, I would talk about how unfair it was that poor white kids - generally where I grew up the poorest people were white - had a harder time getting into colleges than me, a rich kid, or my rich black friends from Africa. That was usually met with claims that I should "think about people besides myself", to which I can only respond that's already what I'm doing.

I learned that people don't give a shit about unfairness or prejudice or racism if it has to do with white people. So, I tried to frame it in a way that it might click - a minorities being systematically disadvantaged due to prejudice based on race - i.e. racism. Usually I am met with outright denial. The one time someone even tried to address it, they said something to the effect that, well, if you are going to make a place "monochromatic", then you should be OK with being disadvantaged due to your race.

By now I've learned that it's impossible to get through to most people that they are being racist, or supporting racism. Especially a particular kind of, let's call it, racism with a smiley face, where minorities are just different aspects of the rainbow so they can imagine themselves in a United Colors of Benneton ad.

 

[laughing dog]

Your examples focus on admissions, not hiring or promotions. None of your examples in admission are racist under the traditional meaning of the word.

Do you mean that AA in the US as practiced in admissions by many Universities is unfair or prejudiced?

Of course they are racist. The traditional meaning of the word is "prejudice based on race", and that is *exactly* what we see in college admissions.

Unfortunately for you, dictionaries do not support your claim (as I pointed out in an earlier post).

They are unfair due to prejudice based on race.

That is bigotry which is not necessarily racism. Bigotry may be driven by racism or it may be driven by other factors. One can be bigoted against a racial group without thinking that group is inferior.

They are unfair because of racism. Of course, people are apt to deny racism, but so it isn't surprising that most will. But it is plain as day.

If you wish to redefine racism, then it is only plain as day to those who accept your redefinition.

 

[J842P]

That is bigotry which is not necessarily racism. Bigotry may be driven by racism or it may be driven by other factors. One can be bigoted against a racial group without thinking that group is inferior.
...

If you wish to redefine racism, then it is only plain as day to those who accept your redefinition.

Nonsense. Your appeal to Webster's isn't the end of the argument. Take a survey of people, and ask them if racism means prejudice based on race, and the vast majority will say yes.

But of course, I don't expect people defending racism to admit to it. Instead, as always, they play their word games, as long as they come up looking like the virtuous ones.

And it is so laughable - dog - that that you sit here and mince words:

"That's prejudice and bigotry based on race, but as long as we don't think they are inferior! Then we aren't racist!"

But if, say Derec, made that exact argument in another context, do you really expect me to believe you wouldn't call it racism? Puh-leeze.

 

[Toni]

WTF.

The problem is you are looking at it as A => B, therefore fixing A will fix B.

Reality is A => B => C => B => C => D. Fixing A will do noting about D even though A was necessary for D.

I read and re-read and re-read your reply to me and I think I finally have figured what the issue is. You don't understand what the letters WTF stand for.

Let me spell it out for you:
What the fuck. That's what people mean when they write WTF. What the fuck.

I have no idea what you're going on about and neither do you.

 

[thebeave]

You are free to redefine words any way you wish in order to make rhetorical points. AA is not racism by the traditionally accepted meaning. And whether it is racism by your meaning depends on how it is implemented.

AA, as practiced in the United States by many Universities, is very racist.

I'll ask this again, but why should my Korean friend, whose dad was a essentially a skilled laborer with a high-school education, have had a significantly harder time than me getting in to the same schools, with similar grades, test-scores, and extra-curriculars, solely based on his race? His family wasn't dirt poor, but they were far from rich. My own family was quite well off, and my father was an economist who held graduate degrees and worked at an international financial institution.


I know it wasn't my essay...

Or maybe it's just that I'm crazy - me and everyone I know - and Universities don't favor black and hispanic kids over white and Asian kids based on their race.

Yep. What's amazing is that your situation is doubly racist. Your Korean friend was obviously discriminated against because of his race, and also you are a victim of negative racial stereotyping (as I recall, I believe you said you were Hispanic) by your college. That is, apparently, the college admissions board feels that *everyone* in your race, regardless of SES, need only meet a lowered standard because your race is...what..mentally inferior? Lazy? Incapable of competing with white and asian students? And I thought liberals abhorred racial stereotyping and profiling. The whole thing is just so bizarre to me.

 

[J842P]

AA, as practiced in the United States by many Universities, is very racist.

I'll ask this again, but why should my Korean friend, whose dad was a essentially a skilled laborer with a high-school education, have had a significantly harder time than me getting in to the same schools, with similar grades, test-scores, and extra-curriculars, solely based on his race? His family wasn't dirt poor, but they were far from rich. My own family was quite well off, and my father was an economist who held graduate degrees and worked at an international financial institution.


I know it wasn't my essay...

Or maybe it's just that I'm crazy - me and everyone I know - and Universities don't favor black and hispanic kids over white and Asian kids based on their race.

Yep. What's amazing is that your situation is doubly racist. Your Korean friend was obviously discriminated against because of his race, and also you are a victim of negative racial stereotyping (as I recall, I believe you said you were Hispanic) by your college. That is, apparently, the college admissions board feels that *everyone* in your race, regardless of SES, need only meet a lowered standard because your race is...what..mentally inferior? Lazy? Incapable of competing with white and asian students? And I thought liberals abhorred racial stereotyping and profiling. The whole thing is just so bizarre to me.

But apparently, as long as the don't say that they believe some races are inferior, then it cannot be racist. I'll be sure to remember that one!

 

[laughing dog]

That is bigotry which is not necessarily racism. Bigotry may be driven by racism or it may be driven by other factors. One can be bigoted against a racial group without thinking that group is inferior.
...

If you wish to redefine racism, then it is only plain as day to those who accept your redefinition.

Nonsense. Your appeal to Webster's isn't the end of the argument. Take a survey of people, and ask them if racism means prejudice based on race, and the vast majority will say yes.

Your appeal to your beliefs is not the end of the argument. Regardless of your beliefs, AA is not racist under the traditional meaning. Moreover, your claim that AA as practiced by most universities is racist is untrue even by your own redefinition because it ignores the use of AA is hiring and promotion.

But of course, I don't expect people defending racism to admit to it. Instead, as always, they play their word games, as long as they come up looking like the virtuous ones.

You mean like you are doing?

And it is so laughable - dog - that that you sit here and mince words:

"That's prejudice and bigotry based on race, but as long as we don't think they are inferior! Then we aren't racist!"

That is true under the traditional meaning of racism. It may be deplorable, but it is not racism. Many people conflate bigotry and prejudice with racism, but they are not necessarily the same.

- - - Updated - - -

Yep. What's amazing is that your situation is doubly racist. Your Korean friend was obviously discriminated against because of his race, and also you are a victim of negative racial stereotyping (as I recall, I believe you said you were Hispanic) by your college. That is, apparently, the college admissions board feels that *everyone* in your race, regardless of SES, need only meet a lowered standard because your race is...what..mentally inferior? Lazy? Incapable of competing with white and asian students? And I thought liberals abhorred racial stereotyping and profiling. The whole thing is just so bizarre to me.

But apparently, as long as the don't say that they believe some races are inferior, then it cannot be racist. I'll be sure to remember that one!

You should forget that straw man, since no one claimed the intent had to be open.

 

[J842P]

Nonsense. Your appeal to Webster's isn't the end of the argument. Take a survey of people, and ask them if racism means prejudice based on race, and the vast majority will say yes.

Your appeal to your beliefs is not the end of the argument. Regardless of your beliefs, AA is not racist under the traditional meaning. Moreover, your claim that AA as practiced by most universities is racist is untrue even by your own redefinition because it ignores the use of AA is hiring and promotion.

But of course, I don't expect people defending racism to admit to it. Instead, as always, they play their word games, as long as they come up looking like the virtuous ones.

You mean like you are doing?

And it is so laughable - dog - that that you sit here and mince words:

"That's prejudice and bigotry based on race, but as long as we don't think they are inferior! Then we aren't racist!"

That is true under the traditional meaning of racism. It may be deplorable, but it is not racism. Many people conflate bigotry and prejudice with racism, but they are not necessarily the same.

- - - Updated - - -

Yep. What's amazing is that your situation is doubly racist. Your Korean friend was obviously discriminated against because of his race, and also you are a victim of negative racial stereotyping (as I recall, I believe you said you were Hispanic) by your college. That is, apparently, the college admissions board feels that *everyone* in your race, regardless of SES, need only meet a lowered standard because your race is...what..mentally inferior? Lazy? Incapable of competing with white and asian students? And I thought liberals abhorred racial stereotyping and profiling. The whole thing is just so bizarre to me.

But apparently, as long as the don't say that they believe some races are inferior, then it cannot be racist. I'll be sure to remember that one!

You should forget that straw man, since no one claimed the intent had to be open.

Holy hell, man, just stop digging. From Websters:

Definition of racism

1 :a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 a :a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles
b :a political or social system founded on racism
3 :racial prejudice or discrimination

I guess according to you, that settles it...

 

[repoman]

That is bigotry which is not necessarily racism. Bigotry may be driven by racism or it may be driven by other factors. One can be bigoted against a racial group without thinking that group is inferior.
...

If you wish to redefine racism, then it is only plain as day to those who accept your redefinition.

Nonsense. Your appeal to Webster's isn't the end of the argument. Take a survey of people, and ask them if racism means prejudice based on race, and the vast majority will say yes.

But of course, I don't expect people defending racism to admit to it. Instead, as always, they play their word games, as long as they come up looking like the virtuous ones.

And it is so laughable - dog - that that you sit here and mince words:

"That's prejudice and bigotry based on race, but as long as we don't think they are inferior! Then we aren't racist!"

But if, say Derec, made that exact argument in another context, do you really expect me to believe you wouldn't call it racism? Puh-leeze.

If another race or neighboring country/tribe (of the same race as seen by someone far away) is competing against your group, then you may think that they are inferior equal or superior to you. They are still competing for a limited pie. Lots of white nationalists think that are asians are superior in some aspects to whites.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Nonsense. Your appeal to Webster's isn't the end of the argument. Take a survey of people, and ask them if racism means prejudice based on race, and the vast majority will say yes.

But of course, I don't expect people defending racism to admit to it. Instead, as always, they play their word games, as long as they come up looking like the virtuous ones.

And it is so laughable - dog - that that you sit here and mince words:

"That's prejudice and bigotry based on race, but as long as we don't think they are inferior! Then we aren't racist!"

But if, say Derec, made that exact argument in another context, do you really expect me to believe you wouldn't call it racism? Puh-leeze.

If another race or neighboring country/tribe (of the same race as seen by someone far away) is competing against your group, then you may think that they are inferior equal or superior to you. They are still competing for a limited pie. Lots of white nationalists think that are asians are superior in some aspects to whites.

Good for them. Time for some plastic surgery and they can then all move to Asia and be superior.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Your examples focus on admissions, not hiring or promotions. None of your examples in admission are racist under the traditional meaning of the word.

Do you mean that AA in the US as practiced in admissions by many Universities is unfair or prejudiced?

Of course they are racist. The traditional meaning of the word is "prejudice based on race", and that is *exactly* what we see in college admissions.

It has been sad seeing that no whites are allowed to go to college anymore.

 

[Bomb#20]

Of course they are racist. The traditional meaning of the word is "prejudice based on race", and that is *exactly* what we see in college admissions.

It has been sad seeing that no whites are allowed to go to college anymore.

When racism ended.[/Jimmy Higgins logic]

 

[laughing dog]

Definition of racism

1 :a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 a :a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles
b :a political or social system founded on racism
3 :racial prejudice or discrimination

I guess according to you, that settles it...

It was settled earlier by your conflation of "traditional meaning of racism" with " waah, I'm right and you are wrong" position.