Why the Constitution is now null and void

[Shadowy Man]

Trump is right but most of you just can't get yourselves to admit it.

if Trump is right about tariffs why does he keep flip-flopping on them? On again off again. Then some exceptions when he gets pushback. Doesn’t seem like someone who is sure of the soundness of their economic policies?

And also if he is right about tariffs why does he keep insisting that they are paid for by foreign countries and not American import companies?

Doesn’t sound like someone who is right. That’s why it’s so hard to admit.

 

[TomC]

A few billion worth just from US farmers.

I wonder, Barbos. How does supplying grain to starving people install favorable government leaders?

Ask Hamas how to curry loyalty to the government by rewarding loyal citizens with international aid.
This is not new.
Tom

HAMAS supplies international aid? Do tell.

Open your eyes!

He's not saying Hamas supplies international aid. He said they use it. Two very different words. Hamas takes most of the aid that enters and sells it to the people. Cash, sex (and that can hardly be considered consensual), participation in the fighting etc.

Actually, Hamas does supply international aid, in a very ugly way.
They collect the aid, then supply it to the GWM.
International community delivering aid to Hamas is indistinguishable from the international community supporting violent Islamic terrorists.
Tom

 

[crazyfingers]

All of a sudden the Democrats hate tariffs because it's Trump's idea. They don't stop to realize how important targeted tariffs can be to keeping union jobs. Actually a lot of Democrats (Biden excepted) don't really like the unions very much anymore even though they are the basis of the middle class.

Here's why democrats oppose these tariffs. Our dear leader renegotiated NAFTA to create "the greatest trade agreement ever" That agreement also addressed tariffs. HE negotiated the damned treaty. And suddenly we have this need for tariffs, and pretty stiff ones at that. For what? Was it jobs? Was it immigration? Was it fentanyl? It certainly couldn't be because of "unfair tariffs" unless he is saying he was a complete dolt when he renegotiated NAFTA and the tariffs in that agreement? Were Mexico and Canada violating USMCA? And then Germany. And France. Are there any tariffs on Russian Vodka? Then after that was his 200% tariff threats against Canada and now France. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Tariffs are Trump's hammer. But he's playing whack a mole. And finally, he seems to have been blindsided by retaliatory tariffs. Did he think other countries would just roll over?

NAFTA was negotiated in 1992 and took effect in 1994. Trump didn't like, thought that it was terrible, and replaced with something very similar called the US Mexico Canada Agreement (USMCA).

 

[Shadowy Man]

NAFTA was negotiated in 1992 and took effect in 1994. Trump didn't like, thought that it was terrible, and replaced with something very similar called the US Mexico Canada Agreement (USMCA).

which he now says is a terrible deal despite he himself negotiating it.

 

[KCFlyer]

All of a sudden the Democrats hate tariffs because it's Trump's idea. They don't stop to realize how important targeted tariffs can be to keeping union jobs. Actually a lot of Democrats (Biden excepted) don't really like the unions very much anymore even though they are the basis of the middle class.

Here's why democrats oppose these tariffs. Our dear leader renegotiated NAFTA to create "the greatest trade agreement ever" That agreement also addressed tariffs. HE negotiated the damned treaty. And suddenly we have this need for tariffs, and pretty stiff ones at that. For what? Was it jobs? Was it immigration? Was it fentanyl? It certainly couldn't be because of "unfair tariffs" unless he is saying he was a complete dolt when he renegotiated NAFTA and the tariffs in that agreement? Were Mexico and Canada violating USMCA? And then Germany. And France. Are there any tariffs on Russian Vodka? Then after that was his 200% tariff threats against Canada and now France. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Tariffs are Trump's hammer. But he's playing whack a mole. And finally, he seems to have been blindsided by retaliatory tariffs. Did he think other countries would just roll over?

NAFTA was negotiated in 1992 and took effect in 1994. Trump didn't like, thought that it was terrible, and replaced with something very similar called the US Mexico Canada Agreement (USMCA).

And he called it the greatest trade agreement ever. But he negotiated it and now...he violates it.

 

[crazyfingers]

All of a sudden the Democrats hate tariffs because it's Trump's idea. They don't stop to realize how important targeted tariffs can be to keeping union jobs. Actually a lot of Democrats (Biden excepted) don't really like the unions very much anymore even though they are the basis of the middle class.

Here's why democrats oppose these tariffs. Our dear leader renegotiated NAFTA to create "the greatest trade agreement ever" That agreement also addressed tariffs. HE negotiated the damned treaty. And suddenly we have this need for tariffs, and pretty stiff ones at that. For what? Was it jobs? Was it immigration? Was it fentanyl? It certainly couldn't be because of "unfair tariffs" unless he is saying he was a complete dolt when he renegotiated NAFTA and the tariffs in that agreement? Were Mexico and Canada violating USMCA? And then Germany. And France. Are there any tariffs on Russian Vodka? Then after that was his 200% tariff threats against Canada and now France. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Tariffs are Trump's hammer. But he's playing whack a mole. And finally, he seems to have been blindsided by retaliatory tariffs. Did he think other countries would just roll over?

NAFTA was negotiated in 1992 and took effect in 1994. Trump didn't like, thought that it was terrible, and replaced with something very similar called the US Mexico Canada Agreement (USMCA).

And he called it the greatest trade agreement ever. But he negotiated it and now...he violates it.

Yes he violated his own trade agreement. USMCA. He's an idiot and he's a bag of dog shit.

 

[crazyfingers]

NAFTA was negotiated in 1992 and took effect in 1994. Trump didn't like, thought that it was terrible, and replaced with something very similar called the US Mexico Canada Agreement (USMCA).

which he now says is a terrible deal despite he himself negotiating it.

He's depending on his MAGAtard followers to have forgotten that it's his own agreement that was so wonderful at the time. Probably most have forgotten, or never knew in the first place.

 

[Patooka]

The main point to be made though is this. That for the first time in my 67 year life there are corporations thinking twice about how they're going to offshore to other countries while still enjoying US sales.

You are such a cheerleader for corporations it isn't even funny. You fucking love the Citizens United brand it's actually embarrassing. What is so sad is that you are quite literally the last person who knows this.

 

[KCFlyer]

And also if he is right about tariffs why does he keep insisting that they are paid for by foreign countries and not American import companies?

I saw a clip of Maria Bartiromo, who I thought was a business reporter but who wouldn't mind if Trump grabbed her by the..you know...and she was talking as if the foreign country paid the tariff.

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

Trump is right but most of you just can't get yourselves to admit it.

if Trump is right about tariffs why does he keep flip-flopping on them? On again off again. Then some exceptions when he gets pushback. Doesn’t seem like someone who is sure of the soundness of their economic policies?

And also if he is right about tariffs why does he keep insisting that they are paid for by foreign countries and not American import companies?

Doesn’t sound like someone who is right. That’s why it’s so hard to admit.

Correct.
To RVonse - Trump is wrong about most things and so are you. It has been explained to you many times with various topics why you are wrong, but you continue to get things wrong. It is you who can't admit that you are wrong.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The president made an executive order on day one that security clearances can be given out without any background checks, financial disclosures, or conflict of interest disclosures. Then Musk was given some kind of “special government employee” status.

Musk already had the highest security clearance you can get because of his rocket business.

There isn't a linear path of clearances. There's a lot of specialty stuff where you can be cleared for one part but not another. Owning the rockets doesn't require all that much of a clearance.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Ok I stand corrected. I saw this on fake news and assumed (incorrectly) it was true since Musk does have a top secret clearance.

Just like Musk, assuming you understand and declaring things wrong when in reality you have no idea.

A top secret clearance should still be enough for this job though. All Musk is doing is auditing the cockroaches out of the government that I do not want to pay for. And some of you might feel the cockroaches are useful but I don't. Trump ran on this and is only doing what he said (on a daily basis) he was going to do.

The Rat wouldn't know a cockroach if he saw one. This is 100% an exercise in declaring anything he doesn't understand to be wrong.

One from the Google feed while I was waiting around: They intend to cut off Social Security payments going to anyone who doesn't have a Social Security number. Common sense, right? No, toddler in the playpen. It's quite legal for the payment to be going to someone without a Social Security number--what's important is who the payment is for. In these cases, the money is going to someone who is the caretaker of the recipient. And they're expecting a lot of people to show up at Social Security offices in person. What happens when someone retired to a foreign country and now needs a caretaker? Yet more for the ice floe.

Are we supposed to vote for candidates who don't do what they say they plan to do?

He said he was going after fraud and waste. So far they have demonstrated no ability to actually recognize it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Would it be safe to assume that "fake news" refers to CNN?

They are not even trying to be any kind of news network. Once you realize their intentions are pure propaganda, their techniques are fascinating to watch.

To be fascinating to watch you need to have some understanding how propaganda works. And you have continued to demonstrate that you can't recognize propaganda. (And you're far from alone in that--most people are very vulnerable to being manipulated. I've watched it happen in person once, totally amazing how otherwise intelligent people would fall for some pretty obvious things. Two of us had close relatives who were psychologists and recognized it for what it was, the rest swallowed it hook, line and sinker.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And so many things have become connected to politics that it is extremely difficult to know actual reality.

To listen to the "news" from both Fox News and MSNBC as well as reading the comments on this board I am left with only 2 inescapable conclusions.

1. The opposing party is stupid. Mentally retarded on a level that defies explanation. Willing to accept and even advocate policies that will be the downfall of The West as well as the ruination of the economy, the climate, and civil society.

2. The opposing party is incredibly intelligent. Capable of hatching and following through on plots and schemes so Machiavellian as to defy explanation. Capable of weaving web within webs within webs with the apparent aim of making life miserable and intolerable for everyone.

I believe both sides are delusional in their own way, having listened to each side of the propaganda for far too long. I try to listen to real people like yourself on forums to form my opinions and real life experiences. But no doubt I am as delusional as the next guy who suffers from US media.

Actually, it's generally possible to get a reasonable idea of the truth.

1) Look at what side A says. Look at what side B says about the same incidents. Who is arguing specifics, who is arguing facts, who is arguing emotion? The side being specific an not emotional is probably the one in the right.

2) Look at how specifically things are described. The side giving things which can be separately verified is much more likely to be telling the truth.

3) Look at the track record of rebutted claims. If side A makes 10 claims and 9 are proven misleading or false then you can pretty much assume #10 also is.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Also, if he is just auditing then why freeze funding before the audit is done? And if the audit is done why has he not reported to Congress on his findings?

What is happening is that he is usurping the power of Congress in an illegal, unconstitutional manner and it is ridiculous for you to claim “all he is doing is auditing”. It’s just a bullshit line and we aren’t buying it.

The Trump administration is so corrupt and threatening that it believes it, elected by the people, actually has a right to rule. What a fool the Trump administration is for believing that its election gives it a right to rule. Only anti-Americans have a right to rule America. Where do these upstart MAGA Americans come from who believe they have a right to rule in their own country simply because they won an election?

All sorts of constitutional and legal barriers prevent Trump from governing, but none prevent Democrats and their corrupt judges, prosecutors, and media whores from preventing governance from an establishment-disapproved, despite electorally approved, presidential administration.

Dems More Panicked About DOGE Than Chinese Hackers

Democrats seem to be more worried over DOGE potentially having more oversight capability than they are about China's cyberattacks.

thefederalist.com

The Constitution sets limits on the actions of our rulers.

I'm much more afraid of The Felon than of Chinese hackers. I see Mao 2.0. Chinese hackers aren't going to burn down my country. The Felon probably is.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And then you forget all about the humiliating ease with which these claims were exposed as bare faced lies, go back to the same lying sources, and swallow a whole new lie, which you bring here, apparently expecting that this time, for the first time, those lies will not be shot down in flames.

I mentioned this in another thread, but I looked at a story on OAN regarding the plane crash in DC and the anchor was interviewing a safety expert and said "There's a lot of things we don't know but BOY to people like to speculate...what kind of things have you heard that were maybe too soon". Encouraging conspiracy theories in a news article. And BOY do people run with those. They dismiss the "lamestream" media as fake news, then turn to sources that are seeking out the fakeness.

Yeah, even when things are obvious. Some hours after the crash I saw a post elsewhere, someone highlighting a spot in the helicopter's track and saying there's the problem. And everything I've seen since says he was right. The chopper was told to pass behind the traffic, it passed behind the wrong traffic. And it was a bit too high. It's a very simple, easy to make failure (the reality is that if you are on a collision course with something that it does not move in your view--they teach this in driver's training), unless it's somehow disproven (and nothing has suggested it's false) there's no reason to think there's some big hidden thing.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Musk already had the highest security clearance you can get because of his rocket business.

The HIGHEST?
His clearance probably gives him access to any info about NASA. Maybe even UFOs. But I doubt his 'clearance' gets him into even the front door at the CIA.

RVonse was not making a statement of fact. There are actual governmentally defined levels of security clearance and if he was reporting truth he could have just stated what Elon Musk's clearance level is. It comes across as just a feeling of his... it has "truthiness" to it.

The fact that Musk was specifically DENIED high security clearance -- making him UNIQUE among the CEOs of such major gov't contractors -- was a cause célèbre. Even I -- not as much of a news junkie as many of you I daresay -- had read this fact from 3 or 4 distinct sources. The reasons WHY he was denied clearance included, IIRC, his dealings with Russia, his non-citizenship perhaps, and some vice (drug use?). At least those were the obvious publicly known grounds; there may have been other secret reasons.

I'm pretty sure current drug use denies a clearance.

There's also the fact that being in the closet about anything will deny you a high clearance, whether the thing itself is bad or not. Your life must basically be an open book. This is about blackmail.

 

[KCFlyer]

Musk already had the highest security clearance you can get because of his rocket business.

The HIGHEST?
His clearance probably gives him access to any info about NASA. Maybe even UFOs. But I doubt his 'clearance' gets him into even the front door at the CIA.

RVonse was not making a statement of fact. There are actual governmentally defined levels of security clearance and if he was reporting truth he could have just stated what Elon Musk's clearance level is. It comes across as just a feeling of his... it has "truthiness" to it.

The fact that Musk was specifically DENIED high security clearance -- making him UNIQUE among the CEOs of such major gov't contractors -- was a cause célèbre. Even I -- not as much of a news junkie as many of you I daresay -- had read this fact from 3 or 4 distinct sources. The reasons WHY he was denied clearance included, IIRC, his dealings with Russia, his non-citizenship perhaps, and some vice (drug use?). At least those were the obvious publicly known grounds; there may have been other secret reasons.

I'm pretty sure current drug use denies a clearance.

There's also the fact that being in the closet about anything will deny you a high clearance, whether the thing itself is bad or not. Your life must basically be an open book. This is about blackmail.

He should have lost the clearance when he smoked weed on Joe Rogan's show. That would get any other government employee fired.

 

[ZiprHead]

What would you say when 95% of a doctor's patients die on the table? (That's about the % of the supposed DOGE savings that have turned out to be utterly wrong. And that doesn't mean the remainder were a good idea.)

I’d love to see the look on Vonse’s face when HE was deemed fraud and waste, based on performance that was never reviewed.

Your too late Elixir, this has happened many times my entire working career. If they move your plant to China, you don't have a job. Doesn't matter if you can walk on water or if you are the best at brown nosing the boss......you don't have a job.

The plant I current work (Granite City, Illinois) was marked for death right before Trump got elected the first time. He actually came to our facility with his daughter and told us he would make sure we would stay open if he got elected.

I find no evidence of Trump visiting the plant before being elected. He and Ivanka visited the plant in 2018 after the plant had reopened.

Then against all odds, Trump got elected. And then also against all odds, suddenly our CEO had a change of heart and our plant was un-marked for death. In the meantime, we endure a pandemic, Biden gets elected, and our CEO marks our plant for death again. The one time I would not mind a plant closing since I am ready to pack it in at 67 but Trump gets elected again (against all odds) and our plant is again un marked for death again.

Are you saying it's Biden's faul the plant was set to close again?

U.S. Steel announced it would idle steelmaking at its Granite City Works plant indefinitely, leading to potential layoffs for approximately 1,000 employees, with around 60% expected to lose their jobs.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

• Indefinite Idling:
  U.S. Steel announced it would idle steelmaking operations at the Granite City Works plant indefinitely, meaning the plant will not be producing steel.
  
  
• Layoffs:
  U.S. Steel issued a Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification (WARN) Act notice to approximately 1,000 employees, indicating potential layoffs.
  
  
• Impact:
  U.S. Steel anticipates that about 60% of those notified will likely lose their jobs.
  
  
• Reasoning:
  The company cited the ability to meet customer demand with other active iron and steelmaking facilities as the reason for the idling.
• Previous Layoffs:
  In September 2023, the company temporarily idled furnace B in a move it called "risk mitigation" in response to the United Auto Workers strike, leading to layoffs.
  
  
• SunCoke Deal:
  The decision to idle the plant comes after U.S. Steel had contemplated a sale of a large portion of the facility, including the two blast furnaces, to SunCoke Energy.
  
  
• Nippon Steel Acquisition:
  In December 2023, Nippon Steel Corporation agreed to acquire U.S. Steel, but the deal has faced scrutiny and potential roadblocks.
  
  
• Granite City Works:
  Granite City Works is an "integrated" steel facility, meaning it processes iron ore into steel and then produces finished products.

Sounds like capacity is met and a labor dispute is the cause to me. Threatening closures during a labor dispute is a common practice.

But I"m open to more data if you have it.

 

[Elixir]

I"m open to more data if you have it.

I don’t recall Vonse or any other trumper citing data to support Trump’s lies.
EVER.