Why YEC can seem plausible

[excreationist]

.....With the help of this machine, the poop problem maybe becomes manageable for an eight person crew. But now the people dealing with poo are not available to do other tasks. So while you can solve problem A by reducing it to a job eight people can handle, if you need anyone to handle problems B through Z, you're gonna need another Noah, or a fourth son, or a bunch more wives, or a bunch of slaves or servants or crewmen.....

According to this picture it seems some of the people got bored so they were painting pottery and playing an instrument....

This guy sure is writing a lot:

BTW this is based on a Pre-Flood world:

 

[excreationist]

......It's almost twice as long at the waterline, which is the relevant measure when considering hogging and sagging. And the Wyoming had a hundred and eighty diagonal iron cross bracings, without which she would have been destroyed in even very light seas. No suitable material for such construction existed in the Bronze Age, and even as late as the Roman Imperial period, the cost of that amount of iron would have been unthinkable.

There's an absolute limit of Length at the Water Line (LWL) for wooden ships of about 350ft, and the Wyoming was very close to that limit. She required constant pumping, even in ideal weather conditions, and foundered in heavy seas after less than fifteen years of service.

Excellent points... well like many people I just assumed that the wooden ships were basically just wood....

Yet Ken Ham in Kentucky, and the Kwok brothers in Hong Kong, built their replicas on land, (in Ham's case, mostly from reinforced concrete).

Johan Huibers built his on a platform of 25 steel barges.

All the other attempts to replicate the Ark have been at significantly reduced scale, and are mostly land based.

Thanks I didn't know about all of those other ones....

 

[James Brown]

If I can draw a picture or build a diorama, I can "address an objection" to anything, from mind-reading to alchemy to faster-than-light travel.

The real world is not a fantasy novel with illustrations.

 

[excreationist]

If I can draw a picture or build a diorama, I can "address an objection" to anything, from mind-reading to alchemy to faster-than-light travel.

The real world is not a fantasy novel with illustrations.

I think those exhibits are actually helping strengthen people's faith....
The animated Noah writing things exhibit is impressive:
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IH7yjjn8Cw[/YOUTUBE]
YECs don't like childish pictures of Noah's ark because it looks like it was a made up story:

Instead their kid's materials show a realistic Ark:

 

[bilby]

If I can draw a picture or build a diorama, I can "address an objection" to anything, from mind-reading to alchemy to faster-than-light travel.

The real world is not a fantasy novel with illustrations.

I think those exhibits are actually helping strengthen people's faith....
The animated Noah writing things exhibit is impressive:
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IH7yjjn8Cw[/YOUTUBE]
YECs don't like childish pictures of Noah's ark because it looks like it was a made up story:

Instead their kid's materials show a realistic Ark:

That's a very generous use of the word 'realistic', particularly as it directly refers to Ken Ham's reinforced concrete, land-bound structure that has only the most passing resemblance to a ship - it's basically a vaguely boat shaped building.

As already discussed, any wooden boat or ship greater than ~100m in LWL is highly unrealistic, even if an uneducated audience might not understand that it is.

 

[excreationist]

That's a very generous use of the word 'realistic', particularly as it directly refers to Ken Ham's reinforced concrete, land-bound structure that has only the most passing resemblance to a ship - it's basically a vaguely boat shaped building.

As already discussed, any wooden boat or ship greater than ~100m in LWL is highly unrealistic, even if an uneducated audience might not understand that it is.

What I mean is that if kids look at the first Noah's ark pic they would get the impression that it is just a kid's fairy tale. If they look at "N is for Noah" they'd get the impression that it was talking about real history....

 

[bilby]

That's a very generous use of the word 'realistic', particularly as it directly refers to Ken Ham's reinforced concrete, land-bound structure that has only the most passing resemblance to a ship - it's basically a vaguely boat shaped building.

As already discussed, any wooden boat or ship greater than ~100m in LWL is highly unrealistic, even if an uneducated audience might not understand that it is.

What I mean is that if kids look at the first Noah's ark pic they would get the impression that it is just a kid's fairy tale. If they look at "N is for Noah" they'd get the impression that it was talking about real history....

If you are saying that Ken Ham is a worryingly effective liar and propagandist, at least when his audience are young, impressionable, and poorly educated, then you won't get any argument from me.

But even his best crafted nonsense shouldn't fool any adult with a moderately good primary education and the capacity and desire to rationally criticise his claims.

It's that third element - the desire to determine the truth - that is so frequently lacking.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know" - John Heywood, 1546.

 

[excreationist]

What I mean is that if kids look at the first Noah's ark pic they would get the impression that it is just a kid's fairy tale. If they look at "N is for Noah" they'd get the impression that it was talking about real history....

If you are saying that Ken Ham is a worryingly effective liar and propagandist, at least when his audience are young, impressionable, and poorly educated, then you won't get any argument from me.

BTW Ken (and Mally Ham) have three A to Z books (and DVDs and colouring books), with each letter having an on-topic four line poem...
Here are some examples: (for the tricky letters)

A is for Adam:

Q is for Quiet, Adam and Eve must have been, when God spoke the words, of Genesis three verse fifteen. God’s Son came to die and be raised from the dead, so to Hell we’d not go, but to Heaven instead.

X is for eXplode, the population sure grew, but what happened next, read God’s Word for the clue. They built a great tower to reach to the sky, for God’s spoken Word, they were quick to defy.

​

Z is for Zip, so quick it will be, when Jesus comes back for you and for me. If our name is found in the “Lamb’s Book of Life,” We’ll sure live forever in a place with no strife.​

D is for Dinosaur:

Q is for Question — why can’t we any more, look around and see even one dinosaur? They’re surely all dead, it’s as simple as that; try to guess why — put on your thinking hat.

X is in eXcited, which Christians should be, one day we know that heaven we’ll see. There’ll be no more dying, or crying or pain; for God our Creator, forever will reign.

Z is for the Zeal which people should see, as we tell the truth about history. The dinosaurs certainly have not evolved; through God’s Holy Word, the puzzle is solved!​

N is for Noah

Q is for Quiet. Quiet must have been Noah and his family when all of the destruction outside they did see. But then they must have praised God out loud; no doubt they humbly prayed with heads bowed.

X is in eXtensive. eXtensive, a word that describes evidence of the Flood, fossils over the world that were buried in mud. What a warning to remind me and you to be like Noah, believe God’s Word is true.

Z is for Zealous. Zealous, all of us need to be to tell of God’s ark for you and for me. Jesus, God’s Son, did die for our sin. He is the ark door — make sure you go in.​

There are also comprehensive sections for each letter for the indoctrinators like "overview", "directed discussion", "core truth takeaway" and "quick review".

Though there is a little repetition in the rhymes between the books I am very impressed with them.

But even his best crafted nonsense shouldn't fool any adult with a moderately good primary education and the capacity and desire to rationally criticise his claims.

Actually it can including those who are quite educated... see some of my story in post #479...

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Except that it's physically impossible to build a wooden boat that big that is also seaworthy. - unless magic.

It's not that much longer than the Wyoming and all the ark had to do was not sink - it didn't need to navigate anywhere. I don't think YECs use this argument but Genesis 4:22 says an early man made tools out of bronze and iron...
edit: I mean not sink with very severe weather conditions.

The picture with an elephant on a treadmill is right out of cartoon land. A wooden boat that big is going to leak like a sieve and sink, but we have elephants driving treadmills on it. Those must be some damn robust planks and wooden gears and shafts to take that stress and weight. And how tall is that bucket elevator? How much does it weigh without anything in the buckets? And how much does that water weigh? It's a joke. A person has to be dumb as a doorknob to put credence in pictures like that.

 

[Learner]

Folks! Noah didn't design the ark himself you know?

 

[ideologyhunter]

Correct. Noah didn't do anything, ever, at any time. Neither did Don Quixote, Huckleberry Finn, or Madame Bovary.

 

[Learner]

You may have some new topics ideas! How about a thread for "the existence of Don Quixote, Huckleberry Finn, or Madame Bovary? "

 

[Elixir]

You may have some new topics ideas! How about a thread for "the existence of Don Quixote, Huckleberry Finn, or Madame Bovary? "

Not a bad idea. At least it would divert attention from the fan fiction that is the subject of this thread.

 

[Learner]

People like to discuss all sort of things. Perhaps this thread's not for you.

 

[DBT]

Really, folks, how plausible is young earth creation? About as much as flat earth belief, I'd say.

Zero.

 

[funinspace]

Correct. Noah didn't do anything, ever, at any time. Neither did Don Quixote, Huckleberry Finn, or Madame Bovary.

Wait...wut...Hay-SOOS was mowing my neighbor's lawn just the other day. And I caught an Uber ride with Mohammed last year as well...

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Really, folks, how plausible is young earth creation? About as much as flat earth belief, I'd say.

Zero.

You would be wrong, depending on the audience. Scientifically speaking is is certainly impossible based on an abundance of evidence. But if I have a controlling fascination with magic and gods and other fantasies, and perhaps I am also scientifically illiterate, I would find it not highly probable but actual.

 

[bilby]

Folks! Noah didn't design the ark himself you know?

Then why didn't he use an ark of steel? Wooden ships of that size are structurally impossible, but very large steel ships are commonplace today, and are extremely robust.

A nuclear powered steel ship, with engines that can run for many years without refuelling, thousands of tonnes of cargo capacity, and plenty of electricity for running automated systems to supply feed to the cargo and remove their waste, would have been a far superior solution over a wooden ship.

And if Noah didn't do the design work, why have him do the manufacturing? God could easily have given him such a ship, and trained his family to operate it.

I know it sounds completely ridiculous; But really, it's still less ridiculous than a wooden boat in excess of 120m LWL. The steel ship I describe is physically possible, while the wooden boat described by the Bible is not.

 

[excreationist]

Really, folks, how plausible is young earth creation? About as much as flat earth belief, I'd say.

Zero.

There are many YECs with science related degrees, including PhDs... (see post #454) I'm not aware of any flat earthers in that boat.

 

[Bronzeage]

Really, folks, how plausible is young earth creation? About as much as flat earth belief, I'd say.

Zero.

Biblical literalists have spent the past three centuries struggling with plausibility. It was pretty tough when it became increasingly apparent the Earth was not the center of rotation of the solar system. Despite burning a few people for heresy, they had to concede that astronomy won out over theology.

When the battle lines were formed for the war against geology and it's nephew, evolution, they no longer had to political power to burn people alive, but they could shoehorn whatever was found on the surface of the planet into their creation scenario. It was easy to say that an isolated 20 ton boulder 20 miles down hill from a mountain where the same rock was found, was evidence of the Flood of Genesis. That had been the explanation for obviously ancient landscapes for several thousand years.

Year by year, plausibility had to be squeezed like Clarence Darrow's sponge until there was nothing left. These days, plausibility requires suspension of the observed natural laws. Time spans have to be telescoped because all of this has to fit into 5 or 6 thousand years.

In 2021, there is no plausibility to Young Earth Creation. What is presented is a poorly considered scenario in which physical aspects of the planet are matched with details from Genesis. At this point, the only part where YEC and science agree, it that the Earth was created.