Why you should vote for Trump

[Politesse]

Sorry, but I disagree. I think it's insane to object to Biden, when Trump would probably literally help wipe out Gaza.

First of all, that is an assertion based on party loyalty. Not on anything either man has actually done or said.

Second, we have a right as citizens go abstain from a vote. And if you find yourself trying to deny that right, trying to justifying a viewpoint that "you're either for Biden or you're for Trump, there is no muddle ground", you've got no leg to stand on in accusing Arabs of being too politically rigid. They aren't the ones saying "my Party or no party,". Rather, most are feeling party-less and desperate right now, with no one to trust but each other.

Australia fines people who don't vote and although the fine isn't usually that large, their voting rate is something like 97 or 98%. Our rate is pitiful by comparison. Anyone who doesn't vote in the US is a fool imo. If you must look at it like voting for the lesser of two evils, fine. I usually just think that one is much better compared to the alternative and in the coming election, that is truer than any time in my life. Plus we vote for a lot more than just the president and I've even known people who only vote in the presidential elections. That is also foolish and/or ignorant.

I've voted for people who I wasn't fond of many times, but the alternative was far worse. I vote in every single election, no matter how minor the issues may be because the vote is the only tiny bit of power we have and we women didn't even get that right until a little over 100 years ago. Some Republicans would love to take away our right to vote and some states are making it harder to vote, so only a foolish person doesn't vote and sadly, I've know plenty of them, although I've also known a few who finally voted in 2020 because they didn't want another Trump term.

So, sure, people in the US aren't required to vote, but they are fools, imo, if they don't. You don't have to belong or cling to a party to vote. Just vote for the person who will do the least amount of harm. Btw, Arabs are a very diverse group, so don't make generalizations about them. My husband's late grandparents were immigrants from Syria and Lebanon and most of his current extended family members, are conservatives, who have traditionally voted for Republicans with few exceptions. I hate what's going on in Gaza, but that's not going to keep me from voting blue all the way down the line. All presidents and politicians make mistakes, but I'd rather have an imperfect president than a psychopathic narcissist who despises the rule of law and wants to be a dictator.

Why aren't the Arabic countries doing more to help the citizens of Gaza? Why aren't they taking in more of them? Why aren't they doing more to provide them with relief measures? It's not Biden who is the problem. Bibi and the surrounding Arabic countries are the problem. Shouting at Biden and calling him Genocidal Joe isn't accomplishing anything, but causing more hate and division in a country that is already too divided.

Blood doesn't wash out so easily. Nor should it. "Not liking" whose kid's guts get blown out by your tax dollars is meaningless if that "dislike" isn't accompanied by your vote or some other form of tangible political action.

 

[Tigers!]

. [I got notified of this post, even though my post isn't actually excerpted]

.

Wait, you said above that listening to the other side was the minimum of social obligation. Is that only for the progressives, then?

Or are you saying that, after a while of getting treated like shit it’s okay to not listen any more?

‘Cause, if you’re saying that… should conservatives wonder why they are rarely listened to, or, what?

What I wish is that we would all give each other the courtesy of listening with intent. We may not agree but if we could engage in civil, coherent conversation that would be a good start.

A high bar I know and probably wishful thinking.......

Rhea Or are you saying that, after a while of getting treated like shit it’s okay to not listen any more? ‘Cause, if you’re saying that… should conservatives wonder why they are rarely listened to, or, what?

I doubt if you are acknowledging that conservatives are treated like shit by progressives.

"Conservatives are treated like shit by progressives"? I think this depends on what "conservative" means.

A conservative who drops out of the rat-race to raise their kids in an old-fashioned rural environment? Envy and admiration are more like it.

A conservative who thinks tax cuts for the rich will help him financially? We just laugh and ask him where he got his Econ degree.

A conservative who thinks Muslims smell funny? Heck, I noticed different ethnic groups had different smells, at least back when my sense of smell still worked.

A conservative who attends church every Sunday. Whatever works spiritually and morally.

A conservative who thinks blacks should quit complaining and work harder. We all have an Uncle George who visits at Thanksgiving. He tells fun stories as long as nobody winds him up.

BUT those examples are not what "conservative" even means in post-rational Amerika. And the following examples are not outliers: A MAJORITY of Republicans support violence if Dems win election. Once COVID vaccines became available, there was a HUGE divergence between Dem and Repub. death rates (enough to actually affect swing state elections) because, like lambs to the slaughter, Repubs take their cues from Alex Jones, MTG and other liars and morons

Today an American "conservative"

• Hates liberals and all liberal ideas with nasty and vile passion.
• Brags about how many guns they have, and how they've the right to shoot anyone on their property, "first with a center-of-mass shot, then with a head-shot."
• Is so utterly devoid of common-sense as to not understand Donald Trump is a sociopathic con-man.
• Refuses to watch PBS or CNN or other "lame-stream" media. Some have even turned against FoxNews as not right-wing enough.
• Supports armed insurrection in the event the GOP loses an election.
• Believes George Soros or Bill Gates puts nanobot mind-control devices in vaccines.
• Treats scumbags like the cowardly teen-age killer Kyle Rittenhouse as heroes.
• Roots for Vladimir Putin because he's pals with their Leader.
• Believes a rape victim has been gifted by God, and must raise her rapist's child.

Of course these "conservatives" should be treated like shit: They ARE shit.

I must say your listing of "conservatives" makes me glad I am not one of those conservatives. Your home grown variant need to be sprayed. Though they sound more like populists or authoritarians to me. Labels can be so misleading without and agreed baseline.

 

[Tigers!]

Australia fines people who don't vote and although the fine isn't usually that large, their voting rate is something like 97 or 98%. Our rate is pitiful by comparison. Anyone who doesn't vote in the US is a fool imo. If you must look at it like voting for the lesser of two evils, fine. I usually just think that one is much better compared to the alternative and in the coming election, that is truer than any time in my life. Plus we vote for a lot more than just the president and I've even known people who only vote in the presidential elections. That is also foolish and/or ignorant.

I've voted for people who I wasn't fond of many times, but the alternative was far worse. I vote in every single election, no matter how minor the issues may be because the vote is the only tiny bit of power we have and we women didn't even get that right until a little over 100 years ago. Some Republicans would love to take away our right to vote and some states are making it harder to vote, so only a foolish person doesn't vote and sadly, I've know plenty of them, although I've also known a few who finally voted in 2020 because they didn't want another Trump term.

There are 2 good reasons for compulsory voting
1. Trump (vote against)
2. Brexit (make your opinion known and have it count - 1/3 of the British voters did not vote for or against Brexit)

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I must say your listing of "conservatives" makes me glad I am not one of those conservatives. Your home grown variant need to be sprayed. Though they sound more like populists or authoritarians to me. Labels can be so misleading without and agreed baseline.

Yeah, maybe at some point you'll start appreciating that. This isn't George Will or David Brooks. We are dealing with people who were downing horse dewormer to protect themselves from a virus. We are up against a populist tsunami that threatens to drown the United States. A movement with almost no political goals and even fewer viable understandings of the current status of the nation.

And that is the polite version. The truth is a good of number of them vie for the pre-segregation (and pre-women get to work) days of our nation.

 

[bilby]

Today an American "conservative"

• Hates liberals and all liberal ideas with nasty and vile passion.
• Brags about how many guns they have, and how they've the right to shoot anyone on their property, "first with a center-of-mass shot, then with a head-shot."
• Is so utterly devoid of common-sense as to not understand Donald Trump is a sociopathic con-man.
• Refuses to watch PBS or CNN or other "lame-stream" media. Some have even turned against FoxNews as not right-wing enough.
• Supports armed insurrection in the event the GOP loses an election.
• Believes George Soros or Bill Gates puts nanobot mind-control devices in vaccines.
• Treats scumbags like the cowardly teen-age killer Kyle Rittenhouse as heroes.
• Roots for Vladimir Putin because he's pals with their Leader.
• Believes a rape victim has been gifted by God, and must raise her rapist's child.

You missed:

• Supports and applauds measures that explicitly harm themselves, as long as they can imagine those measures to annoy, upset, or enrage their political opponents

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I've read similar things, especially that more MDs are in favor of UHC. The number one reason I've read is because corporate health care is working their asses off, making them see an insanely high number of patients in a day, leaving them with very little time to do an adequate job of diagnosing and treating patients. They are tired of dealing with the different insurance companies, that have different co pays, and different reimbursement rates.

I think there's little agreement about the problem. The question is whether UHC will help--and what we see with Medicare/Medicaid/Tricare strongly suggests otherwise. As do the cracks we keep seeing in the UHC systems elsewhere.

The doctors who don't want UHC can always work as concierge providers, charging fees to have 24 hour contact with them and leaving billing up to their patients. My favorite NP recently left the practice I'm leaving to work in concierge medicine. I have. no idea why she decided to do that and most of her patients are very upset. The ones I know personally are leaving the practice where she worked.

Economics--it's becoming increasing hard for doctors to afford a practice, especially if they see a lot of government patients. The focus is on hourly rates--with no regard for what it costs to maintain a practice. An example I read about comes to mind: I forget the location but a doctor was pointing out that the reimbursement (Medicaid) for a series of well-baby visits was slightly less than his cost of the vaccines that would be included in said visits. And locally, there was a period in which the cheapest malpractice coverage for an obstetrician was more expensive than the typical insurance reimbursement. (While the coverage wasn't specifically per-baby the rate went up as they delivered more babies.)

 

[Harry Bosch]

Sorry, but I disagree. I think it's insane to object to Biden, when Trump would probably literally help wipe out Gaza.

First of all, that is an assertion based on party loyalty. Not on anything either man has actually done or said.

Second, we have a right as citizens go abstain from a vote. And if you find yourself trying to deny that right, trying to justifying a viewpoint that "you're either for Biden or you're for Trump, there is no muddle ground", you've got no leg to stand on in accusing Arabs of being too politically rigid. They aren't the ones saying "my Party or no party,". Rather, most are feeling party-less and desperate right now, with no one to trust but each other.

It's not an assertion! It's a fact. Biden favors two party state; Palestinian rights; aid to Palestinian civilians and etc. Trump favors no rights for Pals; allowing Israel to expand in the West Bank and in Gaza. Israel hasn't expanded into Rahoml due to pressure from Biden. Trump would be a disaster for Palestinians.

 

[Elixir]

Blood doesn't wash out so easily. Nor should it. "Not liking" whose kid's guts get blown out by your tax dollars is meaningless if that "dislike" isn't accompanied by your vote or some other form of tangible political action.

There are limited outcomes that your vote can make more or less likely.
Any vote that is not for Biden or is not submitted, increases the likelihood that Trump will be elected. And make no mistake - if elected, he WILL effect genocide of Palestinians, as directed by those who have already given his family BILLION$. He will also aid and abet the genocide of the Ukrainian population that is already underway, courtesy of his greatest benefactor. And your vote or non-vote will be an enabling factor.

But hey - make a big statement with your abstinence or third party vote. I’m sure that will greatly influence future voters … if they exist, which is extremely unlikely if Trump is allowed to take over the government.

 

[Politesse]

Blood doesn't wash out so easily. Nor should it. "Not liking" whose kid's guts get blown out by your tax dollars is meaningless if that "dislike" isn't accompanied by your vote or some other form of tangible political action.

There are limited outcomes that your vote can make more or less likely.
Any vote that is not for Biden or is not submitted, increases the likelihood that Trump will be elected. And make no mistake - if elected, he WILL effect genocide of Palestinians, as directed by those who have already given his family BILLION$. He will also aid and abet the genocide of the Ukrainian population that is already underway, courtesy of his greatest benefactor. And your vote or non-vote will be an enabling factor.

But hey - make a big statement with your abstinence or third party vote. I’m sure that will greatly influence future voters … if they exist, which is extremely unlikely if Trump is allowed to take over the government.

I think most Americans agree with you, which is why we are having this weird election between two men who are both disliked by a strong majority of citizens.

But I assure you I have heard all of these arguments against daring to vote outside of Party before, and while I've personally not yet decided what to do about November, said arguments certainly didn't stop me in 2012 and they won't be a meaningful factor in my decision. "Strategic voting" just isn't my bag, and it's my vote to use as I choose, not Niccolo Machiavelli's. And I'm certainly not going to be caught hating on anyone else for using their franchise as they so choose either. This is supposedly a democracy. If Biden wants Black or Native or Queer or Cuban or Female or Arab votes, it is on him to win them, on him to make the case for our support, not me or anyone else who happens to belong to one of the many marginalized groups that the Democratic Party ineptly panders to once every four years before tossing out like yesterday's dog shit the second it's convenient.

And if Trump actually wins California of all places, I don't see how anyone could make the case that this was because a few weirdos voted for Claudia De La Cruz or left a spot blank. If Biden can't turn a 60% partisan advantage into a presidential win for himself... well, we can argue about whether Trump will be a good president, but not about whether or not he won the election fair and square. In Californianese, for a Republican candidate to even come close to winning is an effective landslide. There's a reason no one ever bothers to campaign here aside from a gala or two to mine new donors early on.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Blood doesn't wash out so easily. Nor should it. "Not liking" whose kid's guts get blown out by your tax dollars is meaningless if that "dislike" isn't accompanied by your vote or some other form of tangible political action.

There are limited outcomes that your vote can make more or less likely.
Any vote that is not for Biden or is not submitted, increases the likelihood that Trump will be elected. And make no mistake - if elected, he WILL effect genocide of Palestinians, as directed by those who have already given his family BILLION$. He will also aid and abet the genocide of the Ukrainian population that is already underway, courtesy of his greatest benefactor. And your vote or non-vote will be an enabling factor.

But hey - make a big statement with your abstinence or third party vote. I’m sure that will greatly influence future voters … if they exist, which is extremely unlikely if Trump is allowed to take over the government.

I think most Americans agree with you, which is why we are having this weird election between two men who are both disliked by a strong majority of citizens.

I assure you I have heard all of these arguments against daring to vote outside of Party before, and while I've personally not yet decided what to do about November, said arguments certainly didn't stop me in 2012 and they won't be a meaningful factor in my decision. "Strategic voting" just isn't my bag, and it's my vote to use as I choose, not Machiavelli's. And I'm certainly not going to be caught hating on anyone else for using their franchise as they so choose either. This is supposedly a democracy. If Biden wants Black or Queer or Cuban or Female or Arab votes, it is on him to win them, on him to make the case for our support, not me or anyone else who happens to belong to one of the many marginalized groups that the Democratic Party ineptly panders to once every four years before tossing out like yesterday's dog shit the second it's convenient.

It's great to live in a country where we can vote for whomever we want! I'm a hetro male Indian. Biden hasn't done a damn thing to "win" my vote. But I'm voting for Biden anyway. Here's why: I care about the environment. I want my daughters to have the same bodily control of their bodies that I have. I want a reasonable foreign policy. I favor Palestinian rights in their own state. I believe in gay rights. As someone approaching retirement, I greatly favor Obama care. I also don't want cuts in SSN. I want a reasonable tax policy. And I want a calm presidency without some much chaos. Call me insane, but I think that election laws should be followed; and then perhaps changed BEFORE the next election. The republicans tried to change the election process after the election to benefit Trump. That is not fair or democratic. How anyone can condone this is beyond me to understand. For these reasons, I'm voting Biden.

 

[Politesse]

Blood doesn't wash out so easily. Nor should it. "Not liking" whose kid's guts get blown out by your tax dollars is meaningless if that "dislike" isn't accompanied by your vote or some other form of tangible political action.

There are limited outcomes that your vote can make more or less likely.
Any vote that is not for Biden or is not submitted, increases the likelihood that Trump will be elected. And make no mistake - if elected, he WILL effect genocide of Palestinians, as directed by those who have already given his family BILLION$. He will also aid and abet the genocide of the Ukrainian population that is already underway, courtesy of his greatest benefactor. And your vote or non-vote will be an enabling factor.

But hey - make a big statement with your abstinence or third party vote. I’m sure that will greatly influence future voters … if they exist, which is extremely unlikely if Trump is allowed to take over the government.

I think most Americans agree with you, which is why we are having this weird election between two men who are both disliked by a strong majority of citizens.

I assure you I have heard all of these arguments against daring to vote outside of Party before, and while I've personally not yet decided what to do about November, said arguments certainly didn't stop me in 2012 and they won't be a meaningful factor in my decision. "Strategic voting" just isn't my bag, and it's my vote to use as I choose, not Machiavelli's. And I'm certainly not going to be caught hating on anyone else for using their franchise as they so choose either. This is supposedly a democracy. If Biden wants Black or Queer or Cuban or Female or Arab votes, it is on him to win them, on him to make the case for our support, not me or anyone else who happens to belong to one of the many marginalized groups that the Democratic Party ineptly panders to once every four years before tossing out like yesterday's dog shit the second it's convenient.

It's great to live in a country where we can vote for whomever we want! I'm a hetro male Indian. Biden hasn't done a damn thing to "win" my vote. But I'm voting for Biden anyway. I care about the environment. I want my daughters to have the same bodily control of their bodies that I have. I want a reasonable foreign policy. I favor Palestinian rights in their own state. I believe in gay rights. As someone approaching retirement, I greatly favor Obama care. I also don't want cuts in SSN. I want a reasonable tax policy. And I want a calm presidency without some much chaos. Call me insane, but I think that election laws should be followed; and then perhaps changed AFTER the election. The republicans tried to change the election process after the election to benefit Trump. How anyone can condone this is beyond me to understand. For these reasons, I'm voting Biden.

I suppose you blame Hillary's loss on those damned minority voters as well? Not giving her all those votes she deserved by dint of not being Trump? Not her own idiotic missteps that led directly to that outcome and fucked us all over for four years, and the mistakes of the Republican Party that led to letting an insane populist take thier Party's nomination in the first place?

 

[southernhybrid]

I don't hate the foolish people who refuse to vote for Biden, I just think they are making a big mistake and are helping a man who will try to destroy democracy, and likely cause chaos, should he become president again. If he wins, women's rights will be attacked, not just gay and trans rights. Racism will probably become worse than it already is, despite his pretense to support minorities. He just wants their vote. He is openly racist. Did anyone see him say at a recent rally, "Who do you want a white president or a black president? I think you want the white president". Not only was that openly racist, it's evidence that he's confused again about who he's running against! I support the rights of all citizens and I want more immigrants to come into the country, legally of course, but I want it to be much easier for them to do so. Trump has threatened to deport anyone, including the DACA group who have been here since childhood, if they aren't documented, regardless of how much we need them. For that matter, the man had undocumented immigrants working at his homes. We need more immigrants and there is plenty of evidence that they aide the economy, as well as helping keep SS and Medicare alive, since they tend to be much younger than the average American. Trump wants revenge against anyone in power who has been critical of him. So, we have a choice between a psychopath and an imperfect man who has accomplished quite a bit more than most presidents and who has tried to stop the far right nut in Israel to stop mindlessly killing civilians.

This election isn't like any other in my lifetime. I was ready to leave the country when Bush was elected, but now I realize that despite the awful wars that Bush got us into, that killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, among other things, that Bush wasn't the threat that Trump will be, should he acquire a second term. Nobody is saying that people don't have the right to be idiots when they vote. We are just explaining why not supporting Biden, even if you don't like him, is a stupid, narrow minded thing to do. We're not necessarily voting for the person. We're voting for what will be the best thing for the country, or if one prefers, we're voting for who will do the least amount of damage to the country.

And, let me add, that all of my friends, regardless of race, or personal feelings about Israel are happy to be voting for Biden this fall, with the possible exception of one or two who voted for Trump in the past and haven't decided what to do this fall. I hope more former Trump supporters will do the right thing and vote for Biden this fall. I don't understand when people get angry because a president hasn't done anything for them personally. It's like all the people who are blaming Biden for gas prices, as if a president has control over a global commodity etc.

 

[TomC]

There are limited outcomes that your vote can make more or less likely.

@Politesse and I are in similar, but opposite positions. We both live in states that definitely don't swing. In most elections, particularly POTUS, our votes are like farts in a hurricane. Doesn't matter that we both heavily favor Dem, the outcomes in November are already fixed.

The Arab Americans in Michigan are in a completely different position. The last two elections were decided by tiny numbers of voters. That's why their waffling could be so destructive to Palestinian interests. Just like all those people too good to vote for Clinton had just as much influence over the ending of RvW as the most solidly Trump supporting Baptist anti-abortion voters.

Disliking the reality doesn't change it. If Michigan goes red again, and Trump squeaks into the White House, the disastrous effects on Gaza will be just as real as the disastrous effects on abortion rights when he got in 2016.
Tom

ETA ~This is why I am such a staunch supporter of NationalPopularVote.com
Make our POTUS an elected position.~

 

[Harry Bosch]

Blood doesn't wash out so easily. Nor should it. "Not liking" whose kid's guts get blown out by your tax dollars is meaningless if that "dislike" isn't accompanied by your vote or some other form of tangible political action.

There are limited outcomes that your vote can make more or less likely.
Any vote that is not for Biden or is not submitted, increases the likelihood that Trump will be elected. And make no mistake - if elected, he WILL effect genocide of Palestinians, as directed by those who have already given his family BILLION$. He will also aid and abet the genocide of the Ukrainian population that is already underway, courtesy of his greatest benefactor. And your vote or non-vote will be an enabling factor.

But hey - make a big statement with your abstinence or third party vote. I’m sure that will greatly influence future voters … if they exist, which is extremely unlikely if Trump is allowed to take over the government.

I think most Americans agree with you, which is why we are having this weird election between two men who are both disliked by a strong majority of citizens.

I assure you I have heard all of these arguments against daring to vote outside of Party before, and while I've personally not yet decided what to do about November, said arguments certainly didn't stop me in 2012 and they won't be a meaningful factor in my decision. "Strategic voting" just isn't my bag, and it's my vote to use as I choose, not Machiavelli's. And I'm certainly not going to be caught hating on anyone else for using their franchise as they so choose either. This is supposedly a democracy. If Biden wants Black or Queer or Cuban or Female or Arab votes, it is on him to win them, on him to make the case for our support, not me or anyone else who happens to belong to one of the many marginalized groups that the Democratic Party ineptly panders to once every four years before tossing out like yesterday's dog shit the second it's convenient.

It's great to live in a country where we can vote for whomever we want! I'm a hetro male Indian. Biden hasn't done a damn thing to "win" my vote. But I'm voting for Biden anyway. I care about the environment. I want my daughters to have the same bodily control of their bodies that I have. I want a reasonable foreign policy. I favor Palestinian rights in their own state. I believe in gay rights. As someone approaching retirement, I greatly favor Obama care. I also don't want cuts in SSN. I want a reasonable tax policy. And I want a calm presidency without some much chaos. Call me insane, but I think that election laws should be followed; and then perhaps changed AFTER the election. The republicans tried to change the election process after the election to benefit Trump. How anyone can condone this is beyond me to understand. For these reasons, I'm voting Biden.

I suppose you blame Hillary's loss on those damned minority voters as well? Not giving her all those votes she deserved by dint of not being Trump? Not her own idiotic missteps that led directly to that outcome and fucked us all over for four years, and the mistakes of the Republican Party that led to letting an insane populist take thier Party's nomination in the first place?

HRC didn't run a great campaign no doubt. She won the vote. Lost the election due to the EC. That's our legal system. Who do I blame? Clearly she didn't do enough in the swing states that she lost.

 

[pood]

I suppose you blame Hillary's loss on those damned minority voters as well? Not giving her all those votes she deserved by dint of not being Trump?

It’s not that she “deserved” those votes. And no doubt she did not run a great campaign.

It’s about so-called “progressive” voters who flirt with third-party candidates having enough goddamn common sense to notice what is really at stake. You didn’t like Hillary, you either didn’t vote or voted for a third-party candidate who had no chance of winning. Great. Now you don’t have abortion rights anymore. How’d that work out for you?

 

[Politesse]

It’s about so-called “progressive” voters who flirt with third-party candidates having enough goddamn common sense to notice what is really at stake. You didn’t like Hillary, you either didn’t vote or voted for a third-party candidate who had no chance of winning. Great. Now you don’t have abortion rights anymore. How’d that work out for you?

An illogical blame game. Progressive voters were not the reason our country elected Donald J. Trump. They just weren't. Even if all 8 million third party voters had voted for a mainline candidate, unless you are supposing that every Gary Johnson voter is a "progressive" voter who had Hillary as their second choice, forcing every voter into two camps would only have advantaged Trump. Yes, there were an unusually large number of third party votes, reflective of an atmosphere of voter enthusiasm and engagement noticeably similar to that which we now face, but almost none of them were for progressive candidates. The only progressive even running for the office was Gloria de la Riva, who went home with 74,000 votes, less than half a percent. She got less votes than Bernie, and he wasn't even running.

 

[Politesse]

HRC didn't run a great campaign no doubt. She won the vote. Lost the election due to the EC. That's our legal system. Who do I blame? Clearly she didn't do enough in the swing states that she lost.

Well, me too. For the record I did vote for Hillary, but I also blame her for losing those handful of state elections that cost us all the White House and the Supreme Court. Not, like, Michigan Arabs or Florida Cuban Expats or whoever the Dartboard Demographic is this year. If Biden wants to win Michigan, its up to him to win Michigan, and guilt tripping the voting blocs most on the fence is a very unwise strategy almost certain to make things worse rather than better. People won't change their minds about who to vote for because you wagged a finger at them, that isn't how psychology works.

 

[Politesse]

ETA ~This is why I am such a staunch supporter of NationalPopularVote.com
Make our POTUS an elected position.~

On that, we most certainly agree. The Electoral College was designed to function as one component of a larger representative voting system that no longer otherwise exists, and now is nothing but a provocation for grift and gerrymandering.

 

[Elixir]

HRC didn't run a great campaign no doubt. She won the vote. Lost the election due to the EC.

She knew the EC was there. It didn’t cause her loss. Her hubris and that of the mainstream Dem Party caused it.
Her misplaced characterizations caused her loss. Instead of calling tens of millions of deplorable people deplorable, she should have gone for the throat and called Trump what he was - a well known racist mobster rapist …
But no, that would have been too unseemly - she wouldn’t even call him out for gooning over her on the debate stage, or press the “no puppet” matter when it was panicking Trump. She was so sure she didn’t need any deplorable votes… no need to go so low as to tell the ugly truth.
Hillary caused Hillary to lose.

 

[pood]

It’s about so-called “progressive” voters who flirt with third-party candidates having enough goddamn common sense to notice what is really at stake. You didn’t like Hillary, you either didn’t vote or voted for a third-party candidate who had no chance of winning. Great. Now you don’t have abortion rights anymore. How’d that work out for you?

An illogical blame game. Progressive voters were not the reason our country elected Donald J. Trump. They just weren't. Even if all 8 million third party voters had voted for a mainline candidate, unless you are supposing that every Gary Johnson voter is a "progressive" voter who had Hillary as their second choice, forcing every voter into two camps would only have advantaged Trump. Yes, there were an unusually large number of third party votes, reflective of an atmosphere of voter enthusiasm and engagement noticeably similar to that which we now face, but almost none of them were for progressive candidates. The only progressive even running for the office was Gloria de la Riva, who went home with 74,000 votes, less than half a percent. She got less votes than Bernie, and he wasn't even running.

It’s not just about third-party votes. It’s about people who stayed home and didn’t vote at all, because Hillary didn’t measure up to their concept of the “perfect” candidate, or because they thought she would win and didn’t need to get off their lazy asses and cast a vote for her, or because they were fundamentally sexist, or because they just didn’t give a shit about who won. After Trump’s demented reign that cost untold numbers of lives in the Covid pandemic and took away abortion rights, maybe they’ll give a shit now. But I’m not betting on it, when I hear caterwauling about “Genocide Joe.”