Woke is white arrogance

[Politesse]

Yes, structural racism is a thing. It sucks. But we're not going to effectively fight it by forcing people to stop being racist. That only leads to more racism. Once you start tipping the scales in any groups favour society will re-adjust to compensate, ie get more racist.

How are you going to fight it, Dr. Zoidberg?

The war on drugs was a failure because you can't declare war on a social problem. There's no evil enemies to defeat. There's no cabal of evil racists that we can take down, which will bring the glory of racial equality. There's a myriad of ways life can be unfair. The problem with structural racism is that non-racist people perpetuate racism even if they're actively trying not to. If we myopictly focus on one dimension of unfairness we're only making the world as a whole more unfair. Simple solutions to complicated problems are doomed to fail.

There's lessons we can learn from the various socialist experiments in western Europe.

Sweden and Denmark succeeded very well in creating a society with a high degree of social mobility (which is the problem you're really trying to solve). Perhaps take in some lessons learned from them?

So when you say "we're not going to effectively fight it", that's a bit dishonest - you don't believe it should be fought at all, effectively or otherwise?

I certainly agree that "simple solutions to complex problems are doomed to fail", but so are non-solutions, and you have offered none.

 

[Gospel]

I personally don't care who is or is not woke and what it all means. I only care that I & anyone for that matter can live life in peace. If anyone unlawfully takes that away from us in any shape or form I expect the justice system to do its damn job. When it doesn't no one should be surprised to see people like Woke-Kaepernick popping up. The dude stood up for BLM and since then it's been all over the news and picked up steam. That's what he set out to do and it worked. But instead of looking at the issues it became about dumbass rioters, looters & defunding the police. Then Mr. Floyd lost his life (amongst many others of all races) and folks just shrug and say, that's an exception and continue the focus on a bunch of asshole rioters, looters, the stupid phrase "defund the police" and now this woke crap.

Meanwhile, on the police force, their word is still gold. Fear for their life is mainly all they need to say and no charges are filed if they can avoid doing so by all means necessary. It's only after "woke folk" start flipping gums and the media (for profit) seeks ratings that the police will consider any charges. But whatever, the police interact hundreds of millions of times a day with people and nothing bad happens so they should be allowed to fuck up. Right?

Let's talk more about these woke folk.

 

[TomC]

So Colin Kaepernick was rich when he took a knee and was fired over it,

This did not happen. I understand how the media spun it. But it simply didn't happen.

Kaep's contract ended and nobody was willing to pay enough to get him to sign. That's not the same as being fired.

He'd already been paid multimillions. He doesn't have to do anything. He's rich. But Kaep wasn't fired. He prefers not to play football for the salary offered.
Tom

 

[DrZoidberg]

Free expression and free speech is a corner stone of democracy. Once that goes, so does democracy.

Oh, you are still stuck calling people the n-word. I'm talking about the whole systemic racism thing, the stuff that actually impedes blacks from greater success in the US.

Yes, structural racism is a thing. It sucks. But we're not going to effectively fight it by forcing people to stop being racist.

Interesting, because all you seem to care about is protecting the rights of people to the n-word, and aren't (ever?) saying we need to address the systemic issues. Rather you just equate people to Nazis because you think they are worried about the n-word, when their larger worry is unarmed people getting killed by police, housing disparities, hiring disparities that are so engrained in our society, we (white people) don't even notice it.

I never mentioned the n-word. That was all you.

So what's your plan making all that change? Getting people fired for calling a transexual the wrong pronoun isn't going to help fix any of that?

 

[DrZoidberg]

The war on drugs was a failure because you can't declare war on a social problem. There's no evil enemies to defeat. There's no cabal of evil racists that we can take down, which will bring the glory of racial equality. There's a myriad of ways life can be unfair. The problem with structural racism is that non-racist people perpetuate racism even if they're actively trying not to. If we myopictly focus on one dimension of unfairness we're only making the world as a whole more unfair. Simple solutions to complicated problems are doomed to fail.

There's lessons we can learn from the various socialist experiments in western Europe.

Sweden and Denmark succeeded very well in creating a society with a high degree of social mobility (which is the problem you're really trying to solve). Perhaps take in some lessons learned from them?

So when you say "we're not going to effectively fight it", that's a bit dishonest - you don't believe it should be fought at all, effectively or otherwise?

I certainly agree that "simple solutions to complex problems are doomed to fail", but so are non-solutions, and you have offered none.

Of course I think we should fight racism. My problem with woke is that it promotes racism. It IS racism. Even though its defenders think they're fighting racism. It's deluded white savior nonsense imho.

I think your "solution" makes the world more racist

 

[Patooka]

The irony is DrZoidberg is being too woke about being woke.

 

[Gospel]

. You can't even show us examples of "woke" people,

How about this hyper-woke excuse for a 1/4-back?
View attachment 35087

Kaep is so woke, I doubt he has taken so much as a nap since 2014!

You didn't read it.

 

[jab]

There’s also the “emperor’s new clothes” aspect of wokeness, where it’s socially important to pretend that bullshit is substance; as only the smart and wise are supposedly able to see the clothes. Modern art is a good example of this.

So is a lot of Zizek's meta-postmodernism philosophizing.

on a different, but related note, I myself don't like the virtue signalling aspect of wokeness, or the ad hominem aspect--because you are a------ [fill in the blank] you are probably/ certainly a bigot, and couldn't possibly understand in any meaningful way.

 

[laughing dog]

So Colin Kaepernick was rich when he took a knee and was fired over it,

This did not happen. I understand how the media spun it. But it simply didn't happen.

Kaep's contract ended and nobody was willing to pay enough to get him to sign. That's not the same as being fired.

He'd already been paid multimillions. He doesn't have to do anything. He's rich. But Kaep wasn't fired. He prefers not to play football for the salary offered.
Tom

I agree he was not fired. But do you know if he was offered any contracts? I ask because Kaepernick accused the NFL of colluding to keep him from receiving an offer, and he and the NFL ended up settling his lawsuit.

 

[KeepTalking]

So Colin Kaepernick was rich when he took a knee and was fired over it,

This did not happen. I understand how the media spun it. But it simply didn't happen.

My apologies for having gotten it wrong. Not sure if it was media spin, or my fickle memory. I did not bother to look it up when making my reply, so my fault either way. Thanks for jogging my memory.

Kaep's contract ended and nobody was willing to pay enough to get him to sign. That's not the same as being fired.

He was blackballed by the NFL, no team was even willing to work him out, much less offer a contract. I did hear that the XFL offered a contract, so maybe that is what you are referring to regarding no one willing to pay him enough. The XFL paid their quarterbacks a pittance, and then folded before finishing a single season, and if my memory does not fail me again, a lot of the players dod not get paid.

Regardless, this is a bit of a derail, and I don't really intend to pursue it any further, but I get why you chimed in with the correction.

 

[jab]

I don't know if I've heard Zizek before, but that was tough to listen to. When he debated Jordan Peterson, it must have been like Sylvester the Cat vs. Kermit the frog.

Sorry if this has been said many times already.

a Trump Zizek "debate" would be pricelessly absurd--I'd pay into the high 2 figures to see 90 minutes or so.

 

[jab]

It's an asinine word. Its meaning is -- in totality -- "stuff liberals say and think, that I don't like."

This is precisely correct. A long long long time ago, minorities used the word to describe white people who had the capacity for empathy. It has long since been culturally misappropriated by the right to denigrate the left. And for all of it's uses, I've never once seen any white person sporting their "I'm Woke" t-shirts. This guy in the video probably still has books of stamps so he can pay his bills with checks in the mail.

aa

Any term for any group formed around a new idea or a group in opposition to a majority, often starts out as an insult by their enemies to disparage them. They then appropriate it and make it into their own. There's a long history of this. "Gays" is one. "Impressionism" is another. "Sans Coulottes". "Conservatism" Whenever this isn't happening we need to ask ourselves why. The answer is typically that it's a fake minority position. It's more often a majority position, framed as a faux minority position, put into existence intended to preserve the status quo and allowing the powerful to stay in power. "Socialism" is one of these. "Nationalism". But these tend to be phased out

I suspect a reason woke has fallen out of favour among the wokes (ie social justice warriors) is because it doesn't seem to be so popular among blacks?

Zizek has a great example. The term "native American" is used by wokes as more respectful term for Indian. But "American" is a European term. The term Native American and Indian are equivalent and both imply that the Native Americans/Indians are lesser than the white immigrant population. Both terms are inherently racist. There's no shortage of Native American languages to pick words from. Perhaps one of those? But those won't catch on, because then the majority population wokes won't have a word, they understand, telling them how much more awesome they are than Native Americans.

He's supposed a scholar, but he can't even name his source--like TRump pulling stuff out of his butt--same with the black scholars Zizek ostensibly and ostentatiously refers to; BTW, this is his form of virtue signalling in this video.

 

[jab]

Following your logic I should want more educated people since I am highly educated.

There is a big difference between educated and indoctrinated. MAGA supporters who unconditionally believe the election was stolen are the latter.

Yes, you have put your finger on the communication problem here.
@RVonse is highly indoctrinated, part of which involves maintaining ignorance of facts the run counter to the indoctrination. Another part is that he mistakes watching "rather long videos" from the My Pillow crackhead guy for education.
Belief that the election was stolen despite a complete and utter lack of evidence of fraud, belief that Rudi found anything incriminating on "Hunter's laptop" ... and at least a half dozen other counter-factual beliefs evinced by RV, can only arise from exposure to right wing propaganda, and insulation from factual sources.

There's not much that can be done about it. In the famous words of Mae West, you can lead a whore to culture, but you can't make her think.

That's Dorothy Parker, not Mae West.
Since penis size seems to have come up in this thread, let me quote a west line inquiring about the possibility of a "woke" penis: "Is that a gun in your pocket, or are you just glad to see me?"

 

[jab]

My apologies for having gotten it wrong. Not sure if it was media spin, or my fickle memory. I did not bother to look it up when making my reply, so my fault either way. Thanks for jogging my memory.

Kaep's contract ended and nobody was willing to pay enough to get him to sign. That's not the same as being fired.

He was blackballed by the NFL, no team was even willing to work him out, much less offer a contract. I did hear that the XFL offered a contract, so maybe that is what you are referring to regarding no one willing to pay him enough. The XFL paid their quarterbacks a pittance, and then folded before finishing a single season, and if my memory does not fail me again, a lot of the players dod not get paid.

Regardless, this is a bit of a derail, and I don't really intend to pursue it any further, but I get why you chimed in with the correction.

It's not a derail, it's a sign that the spinmeister TomC needs to wake a little from his fantasyland world and ponder why he feels the need to extenuate a race-based wrongdoing.
What would Zizek say about Colin K.?

 

[ZiprHead]

So Colin Kaepernick was rich when he took a knee and was fired over it,

This did not happen. I understand how the media spun it. But it simply didn't happen.

Kaep's contract ended and nobody was willing to pay enough to get him to sign. That's not the same as being fired.

He'd already been paid multimillions. He doesn't have to do anything. He's rich. But Kaep wasn't fired. He prefers not to play football for the salary offered.
Tom

I agree he was not fired. But do you know if he was offered any contracts? I ask because Kaepernick accused the NFL of colluding to keep him from receiving an offer, and he and the NFL ended up settling his lawsuit.

Yes, there were many players in his position that were offered contracts with worse records than Kaep.

 

[Politesse]

Of course I think we should fight racism.

How? How do you fight racism without offending Nazis?

I think your "solution" makes the world more racist

"My" solution? I've never said any of the nonsense you spew about "Woke" people, nor have I ever described myself with that term.

 

[Emily Lake]

What's the problem with "id recognition software"? And hiring processes usually favor blacks because of so-called "affirmative action". Same goes for college admissions.

I don't know about ID software, other than the fiasco with Wii and Apple's facial recognition systems not being able to see black people. Which is just plain laziness on the part of the developers who didn't bother to test their systems on anyone who was dark skinned.

Hiring processes don't favor blacks. Yes, in some cases, affirmative action may assist some minorities... but in order for that to happen they have to make it through the resume screening process first. And that process still tends to disfavor minorities and women.

College admissions, yes, somewhat. It varies by college, but to the extent that some colleges define target demographic distributions, it could be a factor.

 

[Jarhyn]

Of course I think we should fight racism.

How? How do you fight racism without offending Nazis?

I think your "solution" makes the world more racist

"My" solution? I've never said any of the nonsense you spew about "Woke" people, nor have I ever described myself with that term.

In fact, I'm inclined to interpret it as "every white person who uses the term "woke" or brings it up regularly for whatever reason is quite pointedly arrogant".

"Woke" was, is, and shall likely remain to the rest of us an occasional compliment received pointedly for showing empathy rather than arrogance

 

[Emily Lake]

a Trump Zizek "debate" would be pricelessly absurd--I'd pay into the high 2 figures to see 90 minutes or so.

I don't think I could manage more than a few minutes of it without my brain turning to mush.

 

[thebeave]

What's the problem with "id recognition software"? And hiring processes usually favor blacks because of so-called "affirmative action". Same goes for college admissions.

I don't know about ID software, other than the fiasco with Wii and Apple's facial recognition systems not being able to see black people. Which is just plain laziness on the part of the developers who didn't bother to test their systems on anyone who was dark skinned.

Hiring processes don't favor blacks. Yes, in some cases, affirmative action may assist some minorities... but in order for that to happen they have to make it through the resume screening process first. And that process still tends to disfavor minorities and women.

College admissions, yes, somewhat. It varies by college, but to the extent that some colleges define target demographic distributions, it could be a factor.

Have you watched any TV commercials lately? If you didn't know any better you would assume blacks are about 70% of the population. When in reality, its more like 13%. I doubt its an accident that the actors auditioning for and being hired for the spots just happened to be black. I think what's actually happening is advertisers are trying to outwoke each other, and we've gotten to sorta absurd levels of wokeness.