• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Women and girls are harassed relentlessly from a young age, government report says - REBOOT

phands

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2013
Messages
1,976
Location
New York, Manhattan, Upper West Side
Basic Beliefs
Hardcore Atheist
#Me_Too hasn't even got started.....

Women and girls are enduring street harassment "so frequently" that it is normalised to become "a routine part of everyday life," a new government report has found.


MPs on the Women and Equalities Committee investigated the issue of street harassment over the course of nine months and found that "relentless" harassment (which can begin during childhood) results in girls growing up with a normalised culture of harassment. The report also found that the "disrespect of women" and the "assumption by some men that they can behave in this way" are factors underpinning harassment.


SEE ALSO: #MeToo has sparked a big shift in attitudes towards harassment, new research shows


The report outlines the consequences of harassment for women and girls — in particular, "the backlash they often receive if they 'reject' unwanted approaches."


"Women and girls often fear and experience retaliation from men and boys perpetrating sexual harassment," the report states. The report made note of the fact that several women "asked for their submissions of evidence to us not to be published because of fear of retaliation."


One case study detailed a woman's experience in which a group of men "made sexualised comments" and asked her to "come and sit with them." After ignoring them and putting her headphones in, a note was passed to her. "Eventually a note landed in my lap which read: ‘when you get off this bus we will rape you.’ I got off at the busiest stop possible and went into a shop until I was sure they hadn’t followed me," states the report. This fear of being raped was listed as one of the impacts of street harassment on women and girls.


The report also explores the "significant and widespread impacts" of sexual harassment on individuals and wider society.


https://mashable.com/article/street-harassment-women-girls/?utm_cid=hp-h-8#1NiYZW_JSPq0
 
I went to a ML baseball game a few years ago with my eldest daughter. Sitting directly behind us was two guys about her age (early 30s). I could not make out what they were saying because I don't hear very well, but I noticed my daughter turing around often giving the two guys nasty looks. I turned to look at them and when I did, my daughter told me to ignore them (she thought I was hearing what they were talking about).

After the game, she informed me that they were talking about sex loud enough for her to hear them. They were leaning forward so she could easily hear them.

I don't know what I would have done had I known what was being said during the game. Knowing me, I probably would have made enough of a scene to gain attention somehow. I also probably would have threatened them.

That is sexual harassment. Guys do that kind of thing often. I have four daughters (and one son), and believe me, they have been through the ringer with this stuff.
 
Interestingly enough, I did come across this story earlier today.

Guerra’s alleged raunchy on-the-job behavior — which Falcon says amounts to discrimination and sexual harassment — is being investigated by the NYPD, Commissioner James O’Neill said at a press conference Tuesday.

“We have an expectation at NYPD that everyone acts professionally and that is currently under investigation,” O’Neill said.

He said NYPD probers are “taking these allegations one at a time to make sure they’re properly investigated.”

Falcon has since caught flak on social media from peers who chalked the underwear incident up to exaggerated locker-room antics that are part of cop culture, a police source said.
 
...they were talking about sex loud enough for her to hear them. They were leaning forward so she could easily hear them...

That is sexual harassment...

^^^ This needs repeating

Yes, this definitely happens a LOT.

And if confronted, these types of guys whine that they were only "joking"... or worse. They too often choose to threaten the woman.
 
...they were talking about sex loud enough for her to hear them. They were leaning forward so she could easily hear them...

That is sexual harassment...

^^^ This needs repeating

Yes, this definitely happens a LOT.

And if confronted, these types of guys whine that they were only "joking"... or worse. They too often choose to threaten the woman.

They are Schroedinger's comedians - they are sexual harassers, unless called on their shit, in which case the wavefunction collapses to 'we were only joking around, where's your sense of humour?'
 
Getting back to the actual thread topic, the findings in that report are not surprising to me at all. There is a significant minority of men who are complete asses. And there are men who may unintentionally harass women.
 
Here is my list:

Sitting in a bar with a girlfriend having drinks, friend gets up to go to the restroom, male tries to pick me up, I decline, male yells at me "well if you aren't willing to be picked up why did you come to this bar?"
Constant catcalls and whistles walking down the street since I was 15
Having my butt pinched multiple times walking through a crowded bar
First day at a new job a male coworker (we are at the same level professionally - in an engineering firm) ask me to get lunch for him
Sitting in meetings with males staring at my breasts the entire time - I was dressed very professionally in a suit
Being followed out of a restaurant by a male yelling to get my attention, I ignore him, male runs in front of me and says "Hey I'm talking to you - you better pay attention" and proceeds to ask me out on a date. I ignore him and he follows me in his car. I drive to the nearest police station.
After a professional meeting with a male client, male client calls my boss to be sure I got everything right.
male client asks to see my college transcripts to be sure I have the degrees I say I do


Again as Toni - these are ones right off the top of my head. There are dozens more.
 
...physical assault is one thing, criminalizing offensive speech quite another.

I think that Derec has a point. I don't agree that offensive speech should be criminalized---to a point. Most of us agree that it is wrong and a criminal offense to cry Fire in crowded theater when there is no fire. It would create a very serious public safety concern and should be a criminal offense.

With regards to sexual harassment, I think it is a bit less clear. Sexual harassment is clearly always wrong. It is not so clear that it is always or even often a criminal offense.

A number of states have laws against making terroristic threats. These offenses are generally felonies. The definition of terroristic threat depends on the state but under some state statutes, some sexual harassment could be considered a terroristic threat. For example: threatening to sexually assault another person.

Most harassment does not probably rise to the level of criminal offense. Getting cat called at a bus stop, for instance.


But some conduct does perhaps rise to that level: Being surrounded by 3 guys on a subway car who are all making increasingly intimate and sexual remarks and gestures to the lone woman they have surrounded? That's much closer to criminal, in my opinion because it comes attached with a credible threat of immediate harm.

Quite a bit of the harassment women face comes in the workplace or from persons who have power over them, such as landlords or law enforcement. While some kinds of comments and behaviors are not explicitly designed to make a person feel threatened, it can, indeed, make someone feel threatened, demeaned, marginalized, intimidated, and can cause them to be seen as less valuable and effective on the job. Those are clearly instances where this is an HR concern and the person(s) harassing another person need to be sanctioned and the victim needs to be made to feel safe.

For the record: the first time I ever was wolf whistled at: I was 3 or 4 years old.
 
Last edited:
The study explicitly stretches it's definition beyond the legal one.

So, do you agree with Derec's contention that criminalizing verbal sexual harassment is wrong?

...physical assault is one thing, criminalizing offensive speech quite another.

Criminalize it? As in put people in jail for it etc? No. Build it into civil law and labour laws that make it grounds to fire people and sue over etc, sure. And it would depend on the actual words spoken and the intent behind them.
 
Is gender discrimination the same a sexual harassment? I think they are two separate things. Calling my boss to be sure I know what I am talking about is gender discrimination. Catcalls and butt pinching is sexual harassment.
 
Is gender discrimination the same a sexual harassment? I think they are two separate things. Calling my boss to be sure I know what I am talking about is gender discrimination. Catcalls and butt pinching is sexual harassment.
For purposes of this discussion, we can put it all in the same category of "Shit that women put up with, and the men who still don't believe it." ;)
 
Is gender discrimination the same a sexual harassment? I think they are two separate things. Calling my boss to be sure I know what I am talking about is gender discrimination. Catcalls and butt pinching is sexual harassment.

They are not the same thing. In my list, I did include some things that were gender discrimination
 
Gender discrimination is different than sexual harassment. I did include examples of gender discrimination ( being told I didn’t need to earn as much money as a co-worker and a few other things). They can overlap. Sexual harassment can create a pervasive atmosphere that amounts to gender discrimination.
 
Is gender discrimination the same a sexual harassment? I think they are two separate things. Calling my boss to be sure I know what I am talking about is gender discrimination. Catcalls and butt pinching is sexual harassment.
For purposes of this discussion, we can put it all in the same category of "Shit that women put up with, and the men who still don't believe it." ;)

I don't agree that was the intent of the OP.
 
Is gender discrimination the same a sexual harassment? I think they are two separate things. Calling my boss to be sure I know what I am talking about is gender discrimination. Catcalls and butt pinching is sexual harassment.

I think they overlap, or to put it another way, the second is harassment, the first could be too, depending on the intent. If the client 'merely' didn't trust you, that could be gender discrimination (though to note, I've experienced the same thing, so some customers just don't trust 'underlings' and feel they need to - perhaps because they're paying - get service from the head honcho) but if he (i'm guessing it was a he?) was deliberately trying to get at you, that could also be harassment, especially if they did it more than once.
 
Criminalize it? As in put people in jail for it etc? No. Build it into civil law and labour laws that make it grounds to fire people and sue over etc, sure. And it would depend on the actual words spoken and the intent behind them.

So what is this "legal" "definition" of sexual harassment that you think needs to be met before women (or studies) are allowed to discuss the topic?

People can talk about it all they want. So can studies. I am just saying we should be mindful about what a study actually measures and not pretend for ideological reasons that it measures something else.
 
Back
Top Bottom