-
Features
Yet another school shooting
- Thread starter AthenaAwakened
- Start date
Tigers!
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2005
- Messages
- 4,362
- Location
- On the wing, waiting for a kick.
- Basic Beliefs
- Bible believing revelational redemptionist (Baptist)
You are, of course, correct: None of these measures could possibly work. This is why in the United Kingdom, with its draconian gun control laws, criminals are commonly still armed (because the law doesn't affect them), and crimes against the defenseless population are vastly more common than in the USA. And why the gun buyback scheme in Australia after the Port Arthur massacre was completely ineffective in reducing the frequency of mass shootings, but led to an increase in crime, as people were no longer able to defend themselves without their guns.
Oh, wait; That's all COMPLETE BULLSHIT.
It's almost as though your hypotheses were completely and clearly demonstrated to be false by the observed evidence, but that you continue to trot them out as though they had never been challenged.
ETA: In neither the UK nor Australia is it illegal to own a gun for hunting, or for sports such as skeet and target shooting, or for historical reenactment displays, or for pest and vermin control. If you want to hunt deer in Scotland, or roos in the outback, then the law allows you to own and use rifles for this purpose; Or if you want to stop rabbits from eating your lettuces, you can get a shotgun to use for this purpose (unless you have a criminal record, or are mentally unfit).
You need to be licenced, and you are liable to lose your licence, and be heavily fined, if you do not secure your firearms in accordance with strict rules when they are not in use (including when they are being transported to or from the place where they are to be used); And that you are not permitted to cause 'alarm and despondency' by carrying them in such a manner as to attract the attention of the general public to them. 'Self defence' and 'Home defence' are not considered legitimate reasons to request a licence.
You may not own an automatic weapon, nor a weapon with a magazine with a high capacity, without special permission (for example if you curate a military museum). Weapons that are easily concealed ether require similar special permission, or are restricted in where they may be stored and by whom they may be transported - If you are a member of a pistol club, typically your weapons must be securely stored at the club, and can only be removed from the club by a specially authorized person, such as a licenced gunsmith.
If you want to bring mass shooting frequency down to the levels enjoyed by the UK and Australia, it is perfectly possible to do so without banning guns - as those countries have demonstrated.
Another example you could follow is that of the Swiss - they too have laws that allow for ownership of military style weapons, kept in the home, as part of an historical requirement to defend the nation. But they don't have mass shootings, because the ownership of those weapons (which is in many cases mandatory) is (to coin a phrase) 'Well regulated'. The Swiss attitude and laws fit almost perfectly into the full wording of the US Constitution's Second Amendment. The difference is that the Swiss don't ignore the half that they don't feel like living up to.
While I agree with pretty well all you say the quote had me think differently
If I were to use a shotgun to stop rabbits eating my lettuces in Hobsons Bay, Melbourne then I would quickly receive a visit from the state plods, federal plods and my neighbours.
- - - Updated - - -
I repeat it again
1. Why do you Yanks hate each other so much
2. Why do you hand out guns like lollies?
Kharakov
Quantum Hot Dog
We don't hate conservative parasites. We hate what they do.
Conservative parasites encourage passing out guns so they can take the majority of publicly owned guns away from everyone at once (building up rejection of gun violence), using liberal reactionary policy designers to do their dirty work. They will end up on top in the end, and will blame liberals for the poor's inability to fight against individuals who run the corrupt conservative government. Not only that, they will blame the liberals for the size and power of the government that the poor cannot fight back against (so it is better to give the poor less!).
Their game is too erode poor people's faith in their own decision making ability, to sap their will, so conservatives can rip them off even more. They even set up that whole "credit God with your riches" thing, so that poor start to attribute their failure in life to lack of belief in a God that gives riches to the rich because of belief... which means any fighting back against the system is against God... Ohh, and the AI that gives "bonuses" to the rich? As long as they don't know how it works, they can maintain that a God is giving them stuff until the day they die.
Stoneman Douglas survivors get vocal on gun control
http://www.newsweek.com/who-emma-go...hool-student-says-we-will-be-last-mass-810212
Here is Emma's speech: https://twitter.com/JoshuaChavers/status/964935557318152192
http://www.newsweek.com/who-emma-go...hool-student-says-we-will-be-last-mass-810212
Here is Emma's speech: https://twitter.com/JoshuaChavers/status/964935557318152192
Last edited:
TSwizzle
Let's Go Brandon!
On Real Time, Bill Maher showed a tweet one of the kids put on Trump's twitter feed. Paraphrasing here but basically "we don't want your condolences you piece of shit. Do something about gun control. "
Get that message out. There's no instant fix but we have to start somewhere. How can a teenager (let alone a mentally unstable teenager) be allowed to buy a an AR-15 ? Ban these guns outright from public sale. It has been done before, do it again. Get the ball rolling.
Get that message out. There's no instant fix but we have to start somewhere. How can a teenager (let alone a mentally unstable teenager) be allowed to buy a an AR-15 ? Ban these guns outright from public sale. It has been done before, do it again. Get the ball rolling.
If Michael Moore said the sun rose in the east I would question whether something was messing with the Earth's rotation.
Obviously such a person couldn't actually buy a gun due to the lack of being able to spend the money. The issue was whether they could own one--and not being able to manage one's finances has little to do with whether one would be safe with a gun.
It was just an excuse to ban some gun ownership, not a legitimate safety issue.
Do you just throw nonsensical sentences at the screen rather than ever admit you might have been wrong on something?
If a person has been judged so mentally incompetent that they qualify for federal financial support and are considered too incompetent to manage their own finances... you think this type of person should own a gun?
I will stipulate that the majority of mentally disabled people who would be forbidden to own a gun under this law probably don't have a violent bone in their body, but if they are unable to manage their own finances why on earth do you think it should be fine for them to own a gun? Perhaps you are fine with them accidently offing themselves or others?
bilby
Fair dinkum thinkum
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2007
- Messages
- 34,074
- Gender
- He/Him
- Basic Beliefs
- Strong Atheist
Sure; but if you were a farmer out past Warragul, it would be completely normal and nobody would do anything to discourage it.You are, of course, correct: None of these measures could possibly work. This is why in the United Kingdom, with its draconian gun control laws, criminals are commonly still armed (because the law doesn't affect them), and crimes against the defenseless population are vastly more common than in the USA. And why the gun buyback scheme in Australia after the Port Arthur massacre was completely ineffective in reducing the frequency of mass shootings, but led to an increase in crime, as people were no longer able to defend themselves without their guns.
Oh, wait; That's all COMPLETE BULLSHIT.
It's almost as though your hypotheses were completely and clearly demonstrated to be false by the observed evidence, but that you continue to trot them out as though they had never been challenged.
ETA: In neither the UK nor Australia is it illegal to own a gun for hunting, or for sports such as skeet and target shooting, or for historical reenactment displays, or for pest and vermin control. If you want to hunt deer in Scotland, or roos in the outback, then the law allows you to own and use rifles for this purpose; Or if you want to stop rabbits from eating your lettuces, you can get a shotgun to use for this purpose (unless you have a criminal record, or are mentally unfit).
You need to be licenced, and you are liable to lose your licence, and be heavily fined, if you do not secure your firearms in accordance with strict rules when they are not in use (including when they are being transported to or from the place where they are to be used); And that you are not permitted to cause 'alarm and despondency' by carrying them in such a manner as to attract the attention of the general public to them. 'Self defence' and 'Home defence' are not considered legitimate reasons to request a licence.
You may not own an automatic weapon, nor a weapon with a magazine with a high capacity, without special permission (for example if you curate a military museum). Weapons that are easily concealed ether require similar special permission, or are restricted in where they may be stored and by whom they may be transported - If you are a member of a pistol club, typically your weapons must be securely stored at the club, and can only be removed from the club by a specially authorized person, such as a licenced gunsmith.
If you want to bring mass shooting frequency down to the levels enjoyed by the UK and Australia, it is perfectly possible to do so without banning guns - as those countries have demonstrated.
Another example you could follow is that of the Swiss - they too have laws that allow for ownership of military style weapons, kept in the home, as part of an historical requirement to defend the nation. But they don't have mass shootings, because the ownership of those weapons (which is in many cases mandatory) is (to coin a phrase) 'Well regulated'. The Swiss attitude and laws fit almost perfectly into the full wording of the US Constitution's Second Amendment. The difference is that the Swiss don't ignore the half that they don't feel like living up to.
While I agree with pretty well all you say the quote had me think differently
If I were to use a shotgun to stop rabbits eating my lettuces in Hobsons Bay, Melbourne then I would quickly receive a visit from the state plods, federal plods and my neighbours.
Indeed you would probably incur the ire of your neighbours if you didn't do it often enough.
The use of shotguns for vermin control in built-up areas is generally considered unsafe. But that's local stuff - the law doesn't prohibit shotguns in the entire state of Victoria just to prevent some Toorak housewife from going all Mr McGregor on her neighbour's pet cottontail.
marc
Veteran Member
braces_for_impact
Veteran Member
Look, this is a red herring, and one the right uses way too often, and Loren you should be ashamed of using it. Yes, there are other ways to kill people. But the amount of people that die goes up as access to easier means to kill them goes up. This is true whether you're talking about suicide or homicide. Semi-automatic weapons that can fire at a high rate with large capacities for ammo make it easy to kill large amounts of people, quickly. Yes bad people that are determined to kill will do bad things. But the easier you make it for them to do this, the higher the body count will be. Bombs kill a lot of people. But they're difficult to make and the materials can be hard to acquire, evidenced by how many would be bombers have killed themselves or had a misfire with the bomb. Cars are sometimes a popular choice, but again, in some instances you can mow down mobs at a time, but those that can get out of the path and into a structurally sound area or place that cannot be transversed by the vehicle can survive easily. Choke points make these more deadly than usual. Knives can be used, but are limited in their utility and defensiveness to the user.
Next you'll cite lousy half attempts like the gun buy-backs in New York. (Voluntary!) They really expected a major drop in gun deaths from a mandatory gun buy? That only separated guns from those that really didn't want them much anyway. The California law against AR type weapons and large magazines? Great, but not very effective with Arizona, Nevada, and Oregon bordering the state.
First things first. We need a gun registry. A real one, not the bullshit reporting system we have now where it's VOLUNTARY for the state to comply. So the government knows you have a gun now, so what? You're not defending the country from tyranny and if you think you may have to, then I suggest you join the sovereign citizen movement, convert all your money into gold and join a compound somewhere. Eliminate the gun show loopholes. If you sell a gun, someone in the authorities must sign off on it. Right now, if authorities find a gun at the scene of a crime, and it's traced to me, they can ask if it's mine and I can say yes, sorry bud, it was stolen about 6 months ago. Did I report it? No. Will there be any consequences because I couldn't be bothered? Nope. Hit people with a stiff fine for that shit at minimum and see how fast people start locking up their firearms.
Eliminate self defense as a reason to own a firearm. One may own a firearm for hunting and collecting purposes. That's what police are for. If you live in bumfuck egypt and the police can't reach you for a half hour, you still have guns because you're a hunter or collector or both. If you own a gun, you must be insured, we insure cars for bodily harm and property damage, and no one bats an eye about the poor having to insure their vehicles in those cases.
COMPETENT testing with stiff fees to own and operate a firearm. You must demonstrate REAL gun safety and use knowledge. You must show understanding of the law and the responsibility to own a firearm.
Many types of criminal or mental health issues should disqualify you as a weapon holder. Trump's last bill he rescinded which I posted the tweet about is a perfect example. That law would only have added about 75,000 people to the no gun list. It restricted those on Social Security for mental health reasons or those deemed unable to handle their own finances as a disqualifier to owning a firearm. The 2nd amendment, despite stupid right wing attempts is NOT absolute. Obviously just because one is mentally ill or suffering from dementia does not mean they are not deserving of human rights and constitutional protections, yet those mentally ill that are dangers to themselves or others ARE locked up or kept from materials they could use to cause harm.
Accessories merely designed to increase lethality in military applications should be outlawed. No high capacity magazines, bump stocks, silencers, etc anywhere other than gun ranges.
These are all common sense measures. They don't take away anyone's guns, but if they were all implemented we would see a good reduction in mass shootings.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2002
- Messages
- 38,930
- Location
- Frozen in Michigan
- Gender
- Old Fart
- Basic Beliefs
- Don't be a dick.
While I agree something should have been done to stop this guy, presently the way the laws work, nothing could be done to keep him from getting a firearm.
Jimmy Higgins
Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2001
- Messages
- 44,238
- Basic Beliefs
- Calvinistic Atheist
The regulations were needed decades ago.
TSwizzle
Let's Go Brandon!
Well yes, I'm pointing out that a teenager being allowed to buy a weapon of mass destruction is bonkers. Start there, change the law first thing Monday morning. Minimum age to buy a firearm of any kind is 21. I would prefer higher but we have to start somewhere. Then we keep chipping away, get the AR-15 banned, every state. I've not had a chance to look but I think Dianne Feinstein has a bill proposed to ban "assault" weapons in CA. Assault weapons have been banned before, get them banned again. Right across the country.
Jimmy Higgins
Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2001
- Messages
- 44,238
- Basic Beliefs
- Calvinistic Atheist
Did you bump your head and think this has a shot in hell of getting passed in either the House or Senate?
LOL, we know.
Tigers!
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2005
- Messages
- 4,362
- Location
- On the wing, waiting for a kick.
- Basic Beliefs
- Bible believing revelational redemptionist (Baptist)
We don't hate conservative parasites. We hate what they do.
Conservative parasites encourage passing out guns so they can take the majority of publicly owned guns away from everyone at once (building up rejection of gun violence), using liberal reactionary policy designers to do their dirty work. They will end up on top in the end, and will blame liberals for the poor's inability to fight against individuals who run the corrupt conservative government. Not only that, they will blame the liberals for the size and power of the government that the poor cannot fight back against (so it is better to give the poor less!).
Their game is too erode poor people's faith in their own decision making ability, to sap their will, so conservatives can rip them off even more. They even set up that whole "credit God with your riches" thing, so that poor start to attribute their failure in life to lack of belief in a God that gives riches to the rich because of belief... which means any fighting back against the system is against God... Ohh, and the AI that gives "bonuses" to the rich? As long as they don't know how it works, they can maintain that a God is giving them stuff until the day they die.
Despite reading this a few times I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic or truly believe that.
If you truly believe that then your paranoia is beginning to show.
whichphilosophy
Contributor
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2004
- Messages
- 6,803
- Basic Beliefs
- Energy is itself a Life form
In this case I think he has a point worth further investigation. Why not check the medication history of these killers?
whichphilosophy
Contributor
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2004
- Messages
- 6,803
- Basic Beliefs
- Energy is itself a Life form
Why not check the medication history of these killers?
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
Gun shops and gun shows do not have buyers' medical histories.