Zero credibility left

[DBT]

I can understand the idea of a protest vote, sending a message, people are most probably very sick of Career Politicians and the established order, but for the life of me I still can't understand voting for a Clown as President of the United States of America.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I can understand the idea of a protest vote, sending a message, people are most probably very sick of Career Politicians and the established order, but for the life of me I still can't understand voting for a Clown as President of the United States of America.

Well, weren't you kind of curious to see just what would happen?
How bad it could get?

Hoping against hope that the people who thought he was the best thing since sliced idiots on toast would suffer an epiphany and maybe THINK about it next time?

I mean, i didn't vote for FFvC, I didn't hope he'd win, but i was thinking, if he did, i'd love to be the one person in my office in a position to say 'Told ya.'

 

[Elixir]

I can understand the idea of a protest vote, sending a message, people are most probably very sick of Career Politicians and the established order, but for the life of me I still can't understand voting for a Clown as President of the United States of America.

Well, weren't you kind of curious to see just what would happen?
How bad it could get?

Hoping against hope that the people who thought he was the best thing since sliced idiots on toast would suffer an epiphany and maybe THINK about it next time?

I mean, i didn't vote for FFvC, I didn't hope he'd win, but i was thinking, if he did, i'd love to be the one person in my office in a position to say 'Told ya.'

The ONE person in your office???
No wonder it's so easy to prank them, they're born suckers.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[DBT]

I can understand the idea of a protest vote, sending a message, people are most probably very sick of Career Politicians and the established order, but for the life of me I still can't understand voting for a Clown as President of the United States of America.

Well, weren't you kind of curious to see just what would happen?
How bad it could get?

Hoping against hope that the people who thought he was the best thing since sliced idiots on toast would suffer an epiphany and maybe THINK about it next time?

I mean, i didn't vote for FFvC, I didn't hope he'd win, but i was thinking, if he did, i'd love to be the one person in my office in a position to say 'Told ya.'

Well, whatever happens next is being played out in front of the whole world, and it's not a good look.

 

[Opoponax]

I can understand the idea of a protest vote, sending a message, people are most probably very sick of Career Politicians and the established order, but for the life of me I still can't understand voting for a Clown as President of the United States of America.

Here's the thing about career politicians: they're good at what they do. At least in that they know what they're doing, how the system works, etc. When they're not effective, at least in a system that's not been gerrymandered to hell and gone, they get replaced.

Does anyone ever say they're tired of plumbers who've been plumbers their whole lives and so then go out and hire an electrician to fix their water main? Hell, that'd still be a better fit than Trump as POTUS. At least an electrician's been on construction site before and knows what plumbing is. Anyway, some degree of public service should be required before becoming POTUS. The whole, "Yes, Little Johnny, you really can grow up to be President" sure as fuck wasn't supposed to work this way.

On the other hand, there are people like Al Franken who never served. But when he got elected he put his nose to the grindstone and worked his ass off to learn the job. So it is possible for a neophyte to learn on the job in politics provided they have the willingness to work, listen, learn, and have the best interests of their constituents at heart. Unfortunately, Trump displays none of that as he waddles off to his 17 day vacation after demanding the entire Senate stay in Washington.

 

[braces_for_impact]

I can understand the idea of a protest vote, sending a message, people are most probably very sick of Career Politicians and the established order, but for the life of me I still can't understand voting for a Clown as President of the United States of America.

Here's the thing about career politicians: they're good at what they do. At least in that they know what they're doing, how the system works, etc. When they're not effective, at least in a system that's not been gerrymandered to hell and gone, they get replaced.

Does anyone ever say they're tired of plumbers who've been plumbers their whole lives and so then go out and hire an electrician to fix their water main? Hell, that'd still be a better fit than Trump as POTUS. At least an electrician's been on construction site before and knows what plumbing is. Anyway, some degree of public service should be required before becoming POTUS. The whole, "Yes, Little Johnny, you really can grow up to be President" sure as fuck wasn't supposed to work this way.

On the other hand, there are people like Al Franken who never served. But when he got elected he put his nose to the grindstone and worked his ass off to learn the job. So it is possible for a neophyte to learn on the job in politics provided they have the willingness to work, listen, learn, and have the best interests of their constituents at heart. Unfortunately, Trump displays none of that as he waddles off to his 17 day vacation after demanding the entire Senate stay in Washington.

Yep. But people are incredibly stupid. I thought I had learned that lesson from Bush's second term in office, but Trump has sealed the deal for me. I don't care if it sounds elitist, the average American voter is a mental numb nut. The fact the 1/3 of the electorate still thinks he's presidential material is telling.

So what does it all mean? I'll tell you. It means...

Kid Rock(R) Senator 2018

 

[DBT]

I can understand the idea of a protest vote, sending a message, people are most probably very sick of Career Politicians and the established order, but for the life of me I still can't understand voting for a Clown as President of the United States of America.

Here's the thing about career politicians: they're good at what they do. At least in that they know what they're doing, how the system works, etc. When they're not effective, at least in a system that's not been gerrymandered to hell and gone, they get replaced.

Does anyone ever say they're tired of plumbers who've been plumbers their whole lives and so then go out and hire an electrician to fix their water main? Hell, that'd still be a better fit than Trump as POTUS. At least an electrician's been on construction site before and knows what plumbing is. Anyway, some degree of public service should be required before becoming POTUS. The whole, "Yes, Little Johnny, you really can grow up to be President" sure as fuck wasn't supposed to work this way.

On the other hand, there are people like Al Franken who never served. But when he got elected he put his nose to the grindstone and worked his ass off to learn the job. So it is possible for a neophyte to learn on the job in politics provided they have the willingness to work, listen, learn, and have the best interests of their constituents at heart. Unfortunately, Trump displays none of that as he waddles off to his 17 day vacation after demanding the entire Senate stay in Washington.

I'm not sure that career politicians can be compared to plumbers, or any tradespeople. They are in a class of their own

 

[Opoponax]

Here's the thing about career politicians: they're good at what they do. At least in that they know what they're doing, how the system works, etc. When they're not effective, at least in a system that's not been gerrymandered to hell and gone, they get replaced.

Does anyone ever say they're tired of plumbers who've been plumbers their whole lives and so then go out and hire an electrician to fix their water main? Hell, that'd still be a better fit than Trump as POTUS. At least an electrician's been on construction site before and knows what plumbing is. Anyway, some degree of public service should be required before becoming POTUS. The whole, "Yes, Little Johnny, you really can grow up to be President" sure as fuck wasn't supposed to work this way.

On the other hand, there are people like Al Franken who never served. But when he got elected he put his nose to the grindstone and worked his ass off to learn the job. So it is possible for a neophyte to learn on the job in politics provided they have the willingness to work, listen, learn, and have the best interests of their constituents at heart. Unfortunately, Trump displays none of that as he waddles off to his 17 day vacation after demanding the entire Senate stay in Washington.

I'm not sure that career politicians can be compared to plumbers, or any tradespeople. They are in a class of their own

The point is that experience matters. And that applies to any occupation.

 

[Artemus]

Getting back to the OP topic, The Hill says that federal employees are openly defying Trump now. He's little than a joke at this point.

 

[ronburgundy]

The weird part is that a full quarter of your country views Trump as being trustworthy.

What exactly does someone have to do to be viewed as not trustworthy?

To be fair, I don't think even that 25% think he doesn't regularly lie. It's just that they themselves are willing to lie and say he's "trustworthy" because they like him and like his lies and don't want to say anything that his enemies can use against him. Or they just spin the meaning of the question and treat it like "I trust Trump to lie, cheat, steal, and harm people in ways that I approve of."

 

[RavenSky]

Or they just spin the meaning of the question and treat it like "I trust Trump to lie, cheat, steal, and harm people in ways that I approve of."

Based on the number of Trump voters complaining to the press when the very Trump policies they cheered for end up hurting them personally, I'd say this is what the Trumpster who still say they trust him actually mean.

As long as it is someone else getting hurt, they are all for it. But when it is their own health insurance at risk, or their own husband that gets deported, they suddenly object.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Or they just spin the meaning of the question and treat it like "I trust Trump to lie, cheat, steal, and harm people in ways that I approve of."

Based on the number of Trump voters complaining to the press when the very Trump policies they cheered for end up hurting them personally, I'd say this is what the Trumpster who still say they trust him actually mean.

As long as it is someone else getting hurt, they are all for it. But when it is their own health insurance at risk, or their own husband that gets deported, they suddenly object.

Obamacare is an excellent concept. However I believe the US could review the Cuban and former Libyan fully comprehensive healthcare programs for all.

When I was in China as a foreigner, a trip to the doctor (mandatory at the time even for a cough during the SARS epidemic) the total cost for a full medical was US$1.50 (10 RMB)

This included Chest X-Ray, ECG, 7 (yes 7) blood samples, tests for blood pressure and others. I mean an X-Ray in Italy costs EU100 if taken with a private lab.

If I wrote to Trump on this, I have a feeling he wouldn't reply or maybe he would.

 

[sharon45]

I think we sometimes make the mistake of assuming that everyone in this country is well informed. That hasn't been the case for a long time. It comes down to ignorance and in some cases downright stupidity.

And this was repeated ad nauseam by the right-wing during Obama.

 

[tupac chopra]

I think that we've reached the point were Trump has no significant credibility remaining with either Congress or the American people. .

I doubt that is true. It's just my suspicion, but the people who voted for Trump are a very different demographic to the people who post here. I think there is still a significant amount of people who still see Trump as an alternative to the establishment that they perceive betrayed them.
Support for Trump was never driven by facts primarily (despite the elephants in the living room) , and I don't see why that has changed.

 

[tupac chopra]

I think we sometimes make the mistake of assuming that everyone in this country is well informed. That hasn't been the case for a long time. It comes down to ignorance and in some cases downright stupidity. Ignorance because there are a good number of people who only get their information from Fox News. .

With or without Fox news I don't think it is that people were uninformed.
There was an enormous discontent with the political establishment. I find it curious that people here rarely or never mention that as the major cause of Trumps success.
Many political outsiders have tried to get into US politics with little success. Trump however destroyed first the other republicans and then the democrats. An obnoxious 70 yo old man with no political experience destroyed them all.
He is skillful manipulator who was able to cleverly tap into that discontent, yet so many people are still trying to blame Russia or fox news.

 

[sharon45]

I think we sometimes make the mistake of assuming that everyone in this country is well informed. That hasn't been the case for a long time. It comes down to ignorance and in some cases downright stupidity. Ignorance because there are a good number of people who only get their information from Fox News. .

With or without Fox news I don't think it is that people were uninformed.
There was an enormous discontent with the political establishment. I find it curious that people here rarely or never mention that as the major cause of Trumps success.
Many political outsiders have tried to get into US politics with little success. Trump however destroyed first the other republicans and then the democrats. An obnoxious 70 yo old man with no political experience destroyed them all.
He is skillful manipulator who was able to cleverly tap into that discontent, yet so many people are still trying to blame Russia or fox news.

Because he greatly conveyed a vision, and Clinton didn't. That's mostly how I have correctly guessed every U.S. presidential election since 2000.

 

[LordKiran]

I think we sometimes make the mistake of assuming that everyone in this country is well informed. That hasn't been the case for a long time. It comes down to ignorance and in some cases downright stupidity. Ignorance because there are a good number of people who only get their information from Fox News. .

With or without Fox news I don't think it is that people were uninformed.
There was an enormous discontent with the political establishment. I find it curious that people here rarely or never mention that as the major cause of Trumps success.
Many political outsiders have tried to get into US politics with little success. Trump however destroyed first the other republicans and then the democrats. An obnoxious 70 yo old man with no political experience destroyed them all.
He is skillful manipulator who was able to cleverly tap into that discontent, yet so many people are still trying to blame Russia or fox news.

I have some thoughts on that actually.

I think Trump stupidly doubling down on the dumb things he said actually made him more popular. People don't like candidates that flip flop, constantly dialing back their more intense spouts of rhetoric. The Trump voter's take away is that the flip flopping is the problem and not the things politicians say which required them to recant after the fact. People on the right in particular like that Trump doubles and triples down, they associate that kind of stubbornness with masculinity, strength, and confidence. Even though in real life, that degree of stupid reckless stubbornness is a great way to fail when it comes to working with people.

It also helps that he didn't speak to his target demographic several reading levels higher than them too I suppose...Your typical Trump voter (Presumably) likes short, to-the-point immediate speech that directly conveys your intent. "We will build a wawhl!"

 

[Opoponax]

With or without Fox news I don't think it is that people were uninformed.
There was an enormous discontent with the political establishment. I find it curious that people here rarely or never mention that as the major cause of Trumps success.
Many political outsiders have tried to get into US politics with little success. Trump however destroyed first the other republicans and then the democrats. An obnoxious 70 yo old man with no political experience destroyed them all.
He is skillful manipulator who was able to cleverly tap into that discontent, yet so many people are still trying to blame Russia or fox news.

Because he greatly conveyed a vision, and Clinton didn't. That's mostly how I have correctly guessed every U.S. presidential election since 2000.

Yeah. A stupid, ugly vision that catered to ignorance and spite.

The classic presumed outsider is one that is supposed to provide insight, provide more practical solutions, and do so on behalf of the citizenry. A cult of crass personality doesn't make one an outsider.

 

[funinspace]

I think we sometimes make the mistake of assuming that everyone in this country is well informed. That hasn't been the case for a long time. It comes down to ignorance and in some cases downright stupidity. Ignorance because there are a good number of people who only get their information from Fox News. .

With or without Fox news I don't think it is that people were uninformed.

Lots of Americans are quite uninformed, with probably a significant higher percentage in the right wing side. I have in-laws that still think the illegal immigration issue relative to Hispanics was out of control and growing into the election, even though the fact is that there are roughly a million less than when Pres. Obama took office. There are people who voted for Don the Con as they wanted ObamaCare torn out, but still wanted to keep their ACA.

Utterly uninformed, misinformed covfefe:
https://www.rollcall.com/politics/poll-two-thirds-trump-supporters-think-obama-muslim

Two-thirds of voters with a favorable opinion of Donald Trump believe President Barack Obama is a Muslim, and a quarter of them believe that Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia was murdered, a poll released Tuesday shows.

The Public Policy Polling survey showed 59 percent of those who said they viewed the presumptive Republican presidential nominee favorably think Obama was not born in the United States and only 13 percent believe he’s a Christian.

There was an enormous discontent with the political establishment. I find it curious that people here rarely or never mention that as the major cause of Trumps success.

Yes, there is a significant amount of discontent from middle America. It is one of the factors in Don the Cons favor. However, there are many major factors. HRC was never charismatic, which is a trait that the more successful presidential race winners have, like Reagan, Bill Clinton, and Obama all had. And without Comey’s odd late HRC email investigation public statement and the very real Russian meddling, HRC just might have squeaked by and won herself instead of Don the Con. Far too many people really only respond to Easy Button answers, whether it is the economy, or health care, or the ME wars/terrorism. Don the Con gave them those Easy Buttons, HRC rarely did that. Also, 8 years of 1 party controlling of the WH makes it harder for that party’s new candidate to carry forward. A very slow economic recovery and wages that never recovered for at least the bottom 50% didn’t help HRC, as she was tied to Pres. Obama. Her private email fiasco hurt her. Don the Con also crossed party lines in a few areas, even if he never intended to actually govern that way. He pushed the failed war narrative, and that he would be different. He railed against WS, and was able con people into thinking HRC looked more like the inside persona than himself.

The Repugs laid the groundwork for the rise of such a person as he is. The Repug plan for the previous 8 years was to destroy or block Pres. Obama (of course now more people understand that “no” is not a solution to complex problems). They spread and encouraged all sorts of angry and derisive BS from Obamacare is destroying the US ‘health system’, when it was already out of control. They encouraged people to think Pres. Obama was a Muslim and even a foreigner. The Benghazi witch hunt. They have spread the fear of “bad guys”/terrorists to help further sell the encroaching monitor state and military-complex. They have convinced millions that out of control welfare spending is the cause of the huge US deficits and that taxes are too high (its far more complex). They have sold the lies that taxes, regulations, and illegal immigrants are primary drivers for the stagnation/decline of middle American livelihoods (its far more complex). They sold hate and fear of immigrants, and Don the Con took their ideas to the natural extreme. A sitting senator, house rep, and governor even peddled the fear of Pres. Obama declaring martial law in Texas...

Many political outsiders have tried to get into US politics with little success. Trump however destroyed first the other republicans and then the democrats. An obnoxious 70 yo old man with no political experience destroyed them all.

He is skillful manipulator who was able to cleverly tap into that discontent, yet so many people are still trying to blame Russia or fox news.

Don the Con did clean the Repugs clocks in the primaries, but it still was a hard fight. For his background, his primary win was still impressive. He barely beat HRC in the electoral college, including losing the popular vote by 3 million. But again, considering his background it is an impressive (even if revolting) win. You are correct that he is a skillful manipulator. However, such a con will only hold so long. If the economy slips into a recession and the moneyed don’t get anything out of him, they will turn on him like a pack of wolves. There won’t ever be an ‘infrastructure’ spending effort. So far he has been the banks and WSs best friend. And as the Repugs are beginning to realize, health care is complicated...