THE INCREDIBLE WHITENESS OF BEING

[George S]

Nowhere does she mention racism as something we should treat. She mentions Whiteness. The irony is that in her attempt to speak against racism, she engages directly in racism.

Can we bring Michael Steele to the conversation? would that help you?

I'm sure we'd have a great discussion on the origins of our identical surnames. He's a conservative, I'm a libertarian liberal so our political discussions may get "interesting."

 

[none]

Can we bring Michael Steele to the conversation? would that help you?

I'm sure we'd have a great discussion on the origins of our identical surnames. He's a conservative, I'm a libertarian liberal so our political discussions may get "interesting."

either way they are both useless to rational people.

 

[George S]

AA,

Imagine a post like this:



Is the above a racist rant? Of course it is. So was the OP.

blackness is a mentality. are you saying your use of "non-blacks" is ideology based?

Well, I could say I'm "white" since my skin is light tan. When asked for race on official government surveys I choose "other" and write in "human."

Yes, being of a race (blackness or whiteness) is a mental condition. Non-blacks therefore are those who do not choose "black" on government surveys.

 

[laughing dog]

No, it doesn't. That is a tremendously shallow and superficial reading the of OP. Substitute "dominant group" for "white people" and "dominance" for "white". Then try it.

So you have to imagine she wrote something other than what she actually wrote, so you can see her as not a racist?

By reading within context and using reason. Really, try doing it just once.

Why do you read explicitly racist text out of Athena's OP and read it into Axulus' OP?

I did not read explicitly racist text out of Athena's OP nor into Auxulus's OP. These discussions have a better chance of fruitfulness if you stick to the facts.

This phenomenon on this forum is fascinating.

What phenomenon is that?

 

[none]

blackness is a mentality. are you saying your use of "non-blacks" is ideology based?

Well, I could say I'm "white" since my skin is light tan. When asked for race on official government surveys I choose "other" and write in "human."

Yes, being of a race (blackness or whiteness) is a mental condition. Non-blacks therefor are those who do not choose "black" on government surveys.

so your choice of word blackness is not based on ideology but on racial disposition, you win.
now "whiteness" is being used as an ideology. see the difference? probably not but I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Well, I could say I'm "white" since my skin is light tan. When asked for race on official government surveys I choose "other" and write in "human."

I like that. I think I will start doing the same. Trying to explain what race I am winds up looking like a math formula. I think that will be the case more and more as time goes on and more of us breed with people of other "races".

 

[laughing dog]

AA,

Imagine a post like this:

You know, blackness is a powerful thing. You can get special advantage over non-blacks through affirmative action. You have the presidency. One of the leading astrophysicists in the world (Neil DeGrasse Tyson), a credit to the black race. You have the attorney general of the United States.

Is the above a racist rant? Of course it is. So was the OP.

Well, it is pretty moronic, which is a necessary but not sufficient condition for a racist rant. It is simply a random agglomeration of "factoids".

 

[Shadowy Man]

Yes, being of a race (blackness or whiteness) is a mental condition. Non-blacks therefore are those who do not choose "black" on government surveys.

That may be true in theory, but in practice race is not only something you might identify yourself with but also what other people identify you as. Though the former is something you might choose, the latter is not.

A mixed race child may look like only one race. Even though the child is as much one as the other, they will be treated like one or the other based on their looks, regardless of how they identify themself.

 

[George S]

Well, I could say I'm "white" since my skin is light tan. When asked for race on official government surveys I choose "other" and write in "human."

Yes, being of a race (blackness or whiteness) is a mental condition. Non-blacks therefor are those who do not choose "black" on government surveys.

so your choice of word blackness is not based on ideology but on racial disposition, you win.
now "whiteness" is being used as an ideology. see the difference? probably not but I wouldn't be surprised.

Ah, I get it. It is not racist for a black person to see whiteness as an ideology. Non-blackness as an ideology. But it is racist for a white person to see blackness as an us-vs-them ideology. Thanks for the clarification.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, being of a race (blackness or whiteness) is a mental condition. Non-blacks therefore are those who do not choose "black" on government surveys.

That may be true in theory, but in practice race is not only something you might identify yourself with but also what other people identify you as. Though the former is something you might choose, the latter is not.

A mixed race child may look like only one race. Even though the child is as much one as the other, they will be treated like one or the other based on their looks, regardless of how they identify themself.

Why, yes, people who treat people based on their looks (including hair color and race) are racist. We do have to work at eliminating that.

The OP groups people based on their looks (whiteness). I call that racist.

 

[none]

so your choice of word blackness is not based on ideology but on racial disposition, you win.
now "whiteness" is being used as an ideology. see the difference? probably not but I wouldn't be surprised.

Ah, I get it. It is not racist for a black person to see whiteness as an ideology. Non-blackness as an ideology. But it is racist for a white person to see blackness as an us-vs-them ideology. Thanks for the clarification.

like I said libertarian liberals and conservatives are useless to rational people.

 

[J842P]

Well, I could say I'm "white" since my skin is light tan. When asked for race on official government surveys I choose "other" and write in "human."

I like that. I think I will start doing the same. Trying to explain what race I am winds up looking like a math formula. I think that will be the case more and more as time goes on and more of us breed with people of other "races".

People have been breeding with people of other races for time immemorial. There are only a few populations - mostly islanders - that have been truly genetically isolated for any significant period of time.

Well, the indigenous people of the Americas have been isolated from the Eurasian and African peoples, but they are quite diverse and have been interbreeding among themselves for a long time as well. They started colonizing the Americas around 15,000 years ago.

There are aboriginal people in the islands of the Indian and Pacific Oceans that had been isolated genetically for around 50,000 years (almost 1/3rd the existence of Homo sapiens).

 

[AthenaAwakened]

No dear, it isn't. But you already know that. You won't admit that. But you know it.

To group by race we have agreed is immoral on its face. Yet you do it. Try the above rant substituting some racial pejorative for the word "whiteness."

You are grouping by skin color. Yet we have agreed that skin color grouping is racist.

Why, again, is this not a racist rant?

Whiteness isn't about skin color. Whiteness is a frame of mind. Whiteness is something believed in. Whiteness is what makes you special, a legend in your own mind.

I have quite a few members of my family who if you so saw them you would think them white, you might even say they were white, and if they heard you say it, your day would go down hill really fast. You see, I have understood whiteness for a very long time. Evidently you do not, or perhaps cannot. Don't feel bad, some people never get it.

 

[none]

^battling idiots for decades

 

[Bronzeage]

To group by race we have agreed is immoral on its face. Yet you do it. Try the above rant substituting some racial pejorative for the word "whiteness."

You are grouping by skin color. Yet we have agreed that skin color grouping is racist.

Why, again, is this not a racist rant?

Whiteness isn't about skin color. Whiteness is a frame of mind. Whiteness is something believed in. Whiteness is what makes you special, a legend in your own mind.

...

It's always worked for me. Some say it's because I'm white and some say it's because I'm the oldest in a family with 4 children. I just assume I'm in charge and someone is going to ask me what they should do, or to help them with something and they all have no doubt at all that I can and will do it.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Whiteness is a frame of mind that makes you feel superior and special? Or is it a frame of mind that makes you feel guilty and responsible for the actions of others who you are told you share your race with? Or is it a frame of mind that makes you feel dorky and nerdy? Is Blackness a frame of mind that makes you feel inferior? Or is it a frame of mind that makes you feel special and entitled to perks because of what other people you are told you share your race with have been through? Or is it a frame of mind that makes you feel like you should know how to dance and play basketball and listen to rap music? What about Asianess? Or maybe Whiteness, Blackness, and Asianess are just what you assume you must be when people ask what race you are and you guage your ancestry and skin tone.

This is ridiculous. Identifying as White, Black, or Asian will mean different things to different people. Not only do you insist on redefining "racism", but now you insist on defining "whiteness" in a way to suit your interests as well? Any other terms we should know that you have redefined? You'll need to supply us all with a translation book so we can understand you in the future.

 

[laughing dog]

Whiteness is a frame of mind that makes you feel superior and special? Or is it a frame of mind that makes you feel guilty and responsible for the actions of others who you are told you share your race with? Or is it a frame of mind that makes you feel dorky and nerdy? Is Blackness a frame of mind that makes you feel inferior? Or is it a frame of mind that makes you feel special and entitled to perks because of what other people you are told you share your race with have been through? Or is it a frame of mind that makes you feel like you should know how to dance and play basketball and listen to rap music? What about Asianess? Or maybe Whiteness, Blackness, and Asianess are just what you assume you must be when people ask what race you are and you guage your ancestry and skin tone.

This is ridiculous. Identifying as White, Black, or Asian will mean different things to different people. Not only do you insist on redefining "racism", but now you insist on defining "whiteness" in a way to suit your interests as well?

I agree this is ridiculous. No one is redefining "whiteness". AA explained it use in this context. She is not excluding other uses. Adult discussions usually include such nuances. Perhaps you should avoid them if you cannot handle them.

 

[Axulus]

My kid and I were having one of those rambling conversations people have when there is nothing on TV and raindrops do a soft shoe down window panes. We were speaking of many things and within those many things, the subject of race came up, but not the 'negro problem" but that Pearl of Great Price known as whiteness.

You know, whiteness is a powerful thing. So powerful in fact that it has managed to make slaves out of white people so desperate to hold onto a myth a supremacy that they would rather share whiteness with the white man kicking them in the ass day in and day out, than share better wages, better working conditions, and better benefits with someone who looks like me. Poor and working class white folk all over this country defend austere economic policies and vote for representatives who actively seek to remove any and all worker and wage protections on the books, all for a promise that people of color will get no "special treatment," nothing they have not earned and earned hard. They will depend on a contribution jar left on a convenience store counter and the change strangers get from a ten to pay for the healthcare of their children, rather than demand a broader and more comprehensive universal healthcare at a more affordable price because such a plan might be considered "reparations". They will lose their homes to sub prime mortgage scams rather than demand regulations that could save the limited assets of their families and their generations to come.

Damn strong drug, this whiteness. Blinds you, binds you, then it never minds you.

This is just a way for you to dismiss your political opponents. It can't possibly be because they've thought about the position and think it is legitimate and what they want for themselves and society. It must be because they are stupid idiots deceived by propaganda and their rampant racism.

 

[Axulus]

You think you're not represented. But you are one of the white people.

The "blinds you" thing at work, I guess.

Nope. The OP may refer to you, but it doesn't refer to me, other than perhaps obliquely. Reading for Comprehension is clearly not your strong suit. Try again.

So it referred to you back when you were conservative 10 years ago?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I agree this is ridiculous. No one is redefining "whiteness". AA explained it use in this context. She is not excluding other uses. Adult discussions usually include such nuances. Perhaps you should avoid them if you cannot handle them.

Her lap dog trying to make excuses for her doesn't make her look any better.

This is what she JUST wrote

Whiteness isn't about skin color. Whiteness is a frame of mind. Whiteness is something believed in. Whiteness is what makes you special, a legend in your own mind.

I have quite a few members of my family who if you so saw them you would think them white, you might even say they were white, and if they heard you say it, your day would go down hill really fast. You see, I have understood whiteness for a very long time. Evidently you do not, or perhaps cannot. Don't feel bad, some people never get it.

Athena's wisdom has now shown us that whiteness is a frame of mind, that makes white people feel superior to everybody else. This is why white people oppose wage protections, universal health care, and banking regulation. It is all to keep the black man down. Oh and Athena's rants can't be racist, because she's black. Oh and also, Axulus' argument that cop shootings of black men are higher because black men commit more violent crime is higher, is definitely racist, because Axulus is white. This is what these threads read like to somebody on the outside looking in.

 

[Kharakov]

Athena's wisdom has now shown us that whiteness is a frame of mind, that makes white people feel superior to everybody else. This is why white people oppose wage protections, universal health care, and banking regulation. It is all to keep the black man down. Oh and Athena's rants can't be racist, because she's black.

I thought AthenaAwakened was a white woman who liked to say controversial things to fish for comments she can use in her books and classes.

I still remember her outrage when OJ got away with murder. Ohh, wait, there wasn't any.