The incredible Willful Ignorance of 1/6 denyers

[Derec]

Elixir, nobody here is denying that 1/6 happened. But your side is exaggerating it. You yourself claimed that we came close to living in a dictatorship run by "Hair Furor"[sic]. Not buying that claim is not the same as being a "denyer"[sic].
At the same time your side will not shut up about 1/6 to the point that you pretend that it is the only riot worth talking about. All the left-wing riots that happened through the better part 2020 are mostly ignored. Now that is denialism! Especially since 2020 #BLM riots were much more violent, destructive, and deadly than anything that happened on 1/6. BLM/Antifa thugs killed a number of people too, including a retired police captain in St. Louis and an 8 year old girl in Atlanta. But, but, bad man in DC put his feet up on Nancy Pelosi's desk or dragged her lectern or something. Smh.

I find it incredible that anyone in the US who has any interest in the preservation of American democracy, has remained ignorant of the FACT of Donald Trump’s coup attempt.

He tried to maintain power through legal/procedural machinations like the phone call that is the subject of a criminal case in Fulton County. There is zero evidence he directed the mob in DC, however.

I don’t want to discuss specific posters’ willful ignorance,

Look in the mirror first, and your own 2020 denialism.

“You can lead a whore to culture but you can’t make her think”
- Mae West(?)

Many sex workers are quite cultured. And plenty of "amateurs" are nekulturny af. This Mae West, whoever she is, is just ignorant.

 

[Derec]

When do we stop caring what old white men in ill health think?

First of all, they are in Senate leadership. It matters what they think.
Second, why are you making it about race and gender? Should we care more what old blacks and/or women in ill health think? Why?

 

[jonatha]

Trump is not the GOP though, they really don't like him either.

Trump has tried to topple the U.S. government.
Find me a congressman or senator who identifies as Republican and will publicly call for holding Trump accountable for his role in J6.

Publicly,
not the Carlson thing where you say one thing in public and the opposite in private.

Show me a Republican, in office, trying to uphold fundamental American values and institutions.
Tom

Cheeny and Romney

Cheney is no longer in office

 

[Elixir]

Voting and democracy should both be restored and not replaced.

We voted in 2020, democratically elected a President and your side threw a shit fit - and they’re STILL throwing a shit fit.
Republicans saying “restore democracy” mean
“We lost and I can’t get over it!”

For six years Dems said Trump was illegitimate because of the Russia hoax. Look in a mirror, dude.

The mirror says nothing about Dems trying to pull a violent insurrection. This DESPITE the fact that Russia helped elect Agent Orange, who got 3 million fewer votes than Hillary. Dems accepted that Trump won, regardless of his cheating and Russian assistance.
Biden won fair and square; no Russian help (quite the opposite) and more than 7 million more votes than Cheato.
You lost, and you can’t get over it.

 

[Derec]

HOW on earth could any rational person believe that TRUMP could fix any issue? Serious question. I genuinely do not understand your statement.

Before the 2016 election, he did not have much of a record. Many independents and even Dems who disliked Hillary voted for him.
Note that four years later, enough people soured on Trump that Biden won decisively despite the unsavory way he won the nomination. The "corrupt bargain" between Biden and Clyburn rivals even the one between Adams and Clay.

That said, despite the staggering level of incompetence in his White House, Trump did manage to get some things done. For example, Operation Warp Speed was a singular success. If Trump had the brains to claim that success properly instead of throwing his lot with anti-waxers, we probably would not have President Biden right now. His other successes are moving the US Embassy to the capital of Israel Jerusalem, something Congress passed in 1995 and presidents since failed to implement, as well as the Abraham Accords.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

We no longer have fair voting because we still use electronic machines with no paper trail which can be easily hacked. And we no longer have democracy because most of the population is no longer represented by our government. For example, if we had democracy we would have national healthcare like most other western democracies and we would also be in far less fake wars that have little to do with the average person.

And of course that's because your person didn't win in enough states. Of course in those states where your person did win and used the exact same machines everything is okey dokey.

Honestly, give it a break.

 

[Toni]

When do we stop caring what old white men in ill health think?

First of all, they are in Senate leadership. It matters what they think.
Second, why are you making it about race and gender? Should we care more what old blacks and/or women in ill health think? Why?

It matters because white males, particularly of (any) certain generation have a point of view that does not necessarily include the perspective, the need, wants, visions, points of view or priorities of wonen, in general, non-white people in general, black men, black women, Hispanic men and Hispanic women, Asian Americans, Natuve Americans, young adults, middle aged adults, people currently raising children or grandchildren, LGBTQTA people, non-Christian’s middle class, working class and poor people, and so on. Or just plain: rural people, they’ve all been in office so long that they mostly seem to represent their big donors, rather than ordinary people. A lot of their policy and their taking points are focused on maintaining the best of the status quo for the benefit of rich old white men. It is an extremely narrow perspective, and not one that considers even the present, much less the future. One cannot even say they are out of touch. I’m not sure they ever had any interest beyond their bank accounts-and they remain extremely invested in protecting their bank accounts.

 

[Jarhyn]

Voting and democracy should both be restored and not replaced.

We voted in 2020, democratically elected a President and your side threw a shit fit - and they’re STILL throwing a shit fit.
Republicans saying “restore democracy” mean
“We lost and I can’t get over it!”

For six years Dems said Trump was illegitimate because of the Russia hoax. Look in a mirror, dude.

The mirror says nothing about Dems trying to pull a violent insurrection. This DESPITE the fact that Russia helped elect Agent Orange, who got 3 million fewer votes than Hillary. Dems accepted that Trump won, regardless of his cheating and Russian assistance.
Biden won fair and square; no Russian help (quite the opposite) and more than 7 million more votes than Cheato.
You lost, and you can’t get over it.

Him sitting in the office for 4 years was getting over him winning the election. His numerous crimes after that warrant prison at best and possibly execution if he was in knowing service of a hostile foreign power.

 

[Elixir]

Before the 2016 election, he did not have much of a record.

The fact that YOU were unaware that Trump was a lying cheating scumbag gangster, doesn’t mean everyone else was.
Most of those he fooled were fans of The Apprentice, and stupid enough to think the TV show had something to do with reality.

 

[Toni]

HOW on earth could any rational person believe that TRUMP could fix any issue? Serious question. I genuinely do not understand your statement.

Before the 2016 election, he did not have much of a record. Many independents and even Dems who disliked Hillary voted for him.
Note that four years later, enough people soured on Trump that Biden won decisively despite the unsavory way he won the nomination. The "corrupt bargain" between Biden and Clyburn rivals even the one between Adams and Clay.

That said, despite the staggering level of incompetence in his White House, Trump did manage to get some things done. For example, Operation Warp Speed was a singular success. If Trump had the brains to claim that success properly instead of throwing his lot with anti-waxers, we probably would not have President Biden right now. His other successes are moving the US Embassy to the capital of Israel Jerusalem, something Congress passed in 1995 and presidents since failed to implement, as well as the Abraham Accords.

Whatever success Operation Warp Speed had was in spite of Trump, not because of him. I can think of zero successes of his administration. Zero.

 

[TomC]

Before the 2016 election, he did not have much of a record. Many independents and even Dems who disliked Hillary voted for him.

Trump did have a long record.

Bankruptcy.
Reality TV star.
Philandering.
Racism.
Lying about politicians and anyone else he disliked.

He had a long and well documented record. Which did not include getting elected to any office, anywhere, ever. But Trump had a record that went back a long way.

Note that four years later, enough people soured on Trump that Biden lost despite the unsavory way he won the nomination.

Biden, like Clinton, won. By a lot!
We, The People, spoke and every time we chose someone besides Trump.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

HOW on earth could any rational person believe that TRUMP could fix any issue? Serious question. I genuinely do not understand your statement.

Before the 2016 election, he did not have much of a record. Many independents and even Dems who disliked Hillary voted for him.
Note that four years later, enough people soured on Trump that Biden won decisively despite the unsavory way he won the nomination. The "corrupt bargain" between Biden and Clyburn rivals even the one between Adams and Clay.

That said, despite the staggering level of incompetence in his White House, Trump did manage to get some things done. For example, Operation Warp Speed was a singular success. If Trump had the brains to claim that success properly instead of throwing his lot with anti-waxers, we probably would not have President Biden right now. His other successes are moving the US Embassy to the capital of Israel Jerusalem, something Congress passed in 1995 and presidents since failed to implement, as well as the Abraham Accords.

Operation Warp Speed... the project to get vaccines out to deal with Covid... when he was downplaying Covid-19 almost the entire time, even after telling Woodward that he had heard it was bad in the very beginning?

 

[Elixir]

There is zero evidence he directed the mob in DC, however.

Again, your ignorance does not make the facts of which you unaware go away, contrary to what you seem to think. You should have watched the hearings. There is a ton of evidence that he and his cabal orchestrated the attack on the certification of the election. It will come out - again - when Mr, Smith gets done investigating, and you will bury your head in the sand again. There is no cure for willful ignorance, but you should probably stop making false pronouncements based on it.

 

[Patooka]

Rather than worry about convincing willful ignorance for your boogyman Trump, perhaps your time might better be served looking to the future and not the past. Seeking new direction for individual representation to make a comeback. Because without that, you can forget about your so called "preservation of American democracy". Here might be 2 examples to start the list:

1) Get rid of citizens united
2) Get rid of lobbying and congressmen bribary
3) Get rid of insider congressmen(women) trading. Make them follow the same laws they give to us
4) Get us out of globalism and fake wars..

What's hilarious is you will unconditionally support the people who will insist on keeping all these things. You yourself love media outlets that are astroturfed by lobbyists.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Voting and democracy should both be restored and not replaced.

Just because it doesn't produce the result you want doesn't mean it needs restoring.

We no longer have fair voting because we still use electronic machines with no paper trail which can be easily hacked. And we no longer have democracy because most of the population is no longer represented by our government. For example, if we had democracy we would have national healthcare like most other western democracies and we would also be in far less fake wars that have little to do with the average person.

I don't know about other states but we have electronic machines that do leave a paper trail.

And I disagree on national health care--in theory, a good thing but I think it would turn into a major case of the fox guarding the henhouse. We already see it with Medicaid, Medicare and Tricare. All are inferior to normal private insurance. The whole Medicare supplement industry exists because of the poor coverage from Medicare. Before we vote for more national health care we should fix what we already have.

 

[Tigers!]

Voting and democracy should both be restored and not replaced.

Just because it doesn't produce the result you want doesn't mean it needs restoring.

We no longer have fair voting because we still use electronic machines with no paper trail which can be easily hacked. And we no longer have democracy because most of the population is no longer represented by our government. For example, if we had democracy we would have national healthcare like most other western democracies and we would also be in far less fake wars that have little to do with the average person.

I don't know about other states but we have electronic machines that do leave a paper trail.

Why not just cut out the "middleman" and have paper ballots? One less thing for some to complain about at least.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Voting and democracy should both be

Why not just cut out the "middleman" and have paper ballots? One less thing for some to complain about at least.

Because they take a long time and a lot of effort to count as accurately as the machines do.

And it’s extremely rare, if at all, that the machines miscount in a way that makes a difference in an election.

 

[ZiprHead]

Voting and democracy should both be

Why not just cut out the "middleman" and have paper ballots? One less thing for some to complain about at least.

Because they take a long time and a lot of effort to count as accurately as the machines do.

And it’s extremely rare, if at all, that the machines miscount in a way that makes a difference in an election.

We too have paper ballots. They get fed into the tabulator then go directly into a lock box in the tabulator itself. It would take a very long time to hand count all the races on the ballots. If one particular race needs a hand recount that's far easier and faster than hand counting them all.

 

[Jarhyn]

Voting and democracy should both be

Why not just cut out the "middleman" and have paper ballots? One less thing for some to complain about at least.

Because they take a long time and a lot of effort to count as accurately as the machines do.

And it’s extremely rare, if at all, that the machines miscount in a way that makes a difference in an election.

We too have paper ballots. They get fed into the tabulator then go directly into a lock box in the tabulator itself. It would take a very long time to hand count all the races on the ballots. If one particular race needs a hand recount that's far easier and faster than hand counting them all.

Yeah, although there is one thing I would say about most ballots that is wrongly done either way:

Options on ballots are printed in the same order on every card. This means that there is a likely bias hidden for exploitation, whether people tend to the first or second answer of something they are being a fucking idiot about.

It also means casual observers can pick out from a reasonable distance who someone is voting for just from the spacing of dots.

Printing every card differently would be an advised step, however this is only advised when a machine is doing the actual tabulation, as hand counting something wherein the filled line must be checked individually, it would be a pain unless there was a way to separate out ballots based on order and counting them in order groups.

 

[Patooka]

Why not just cut out the "middleman" and have paper ballots? One less thing for some to complain about at least.

Think on the amount of people the AEC uses in a state or federal election. Think of all the people hired to count and check the votes because we use paper. Now multiply that number of people to hire by 6 because that's roughly the amount more of people that vote in a US General election. Write that number down. It should be roughly 600,000

Now go find the nearest MAGA hat wearing voter and explain to them the US Federal Government would need to hire at least 600,000 federal employees to ensure a free election and see what reaction you get. These people shit their pants because Biden wants to replace the 80,000 tax agents who have retired since W Bush was President.