The incredible Willful Ignorance of 1/6 denyers

[Tigers!]

Other than Republicans losing what actual problem with the American voting system are we talking about needing correction?

Your electoral college constantly pops up. Many on these fora do not like it and wish it gone.

The electoral college is a separate issue than how we conduct the counting of elections. I was responding to the comments about vote counting.

Yet the electoral college works on counted votes, it is an integral part of your voting system it seems.

 

[Elixir]

Your problems predate Trump

That’s what I said. Trump has amplified and exacerbated “the problem”.
Get rid of him and improvement would begin immediately. As long as he is around, it’s going to get worse. He is a very bad man and a very bad influence on millions of people. It’s not that hard to understand and acknowledge.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Other than Republicans losing what actual problem with the American voting system are we talking about needing correction?

Your electoral college constantly pops up. Many on these fora do not like it and wish it gone.

The electoral college is a separate issue than how we conduct the counting of elections. I was responding to the comments about vote counting.

Yet the electoral college works on counted votes, it is an integral part of your voting system it seems.

Not according to 6 years of Trump's claims on it.

 

[Elixir]

The easiest person to manipulate is the one who thinks they are immune. That characteristic besets both conservative and non-conservative persons.

The easiest person is also the one whose ear you have. IHeart Media has the ears of AM talk show listeners. They choose to take the responsible route as a for profit industry, rather than a public service. So they tell people whatever spikes their ratings. They know what spikes their ratings because they have tracked it for decades. Hatemongering, fearmongering and outrage are clear winners. They don’t care if it’s truth or lies. There is no bad outcome for them from even the most outrageous lies.* They’re not interested. If they could stir up that level of outrage and fixation in liberals, maybe they could gain a new fan base in a few decades. But seriously- why bother telling the truth, and risk it all?


* yet

 

[Shadowy Man]

.

What you yanks seem to need is a consistent, coherent method of voting that reduces the possibility of complaints etc. When you use mechanical, electronic, paper, tally sticks then that inconsistency is ripe fro compaling. Simplify and standardise.

And since no one has come forward with actual evidence that our current system isn’t accurate why do you think we need to change?

Certainly a couple of counties in Florida in 2000 fucked it up with their butterfly ballots and hanging chads. But I hope that has been fixed by now.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Other than Republicans losing what actual problem with the American voting system are we talking about needing correction?

Your electoral college constantly pops up. Many on these fora do not like it and wish it gone.

The electoral college is a separate issue than how we conduct the counting of elections. I was responding to the comments about vote counting.

Yet the electoral college works on counted votes, it is an integral part of your voting system it seems.

And there is no credible evidence that our voting system has been miscounted.

 

[TomC]

Yet the electoral college works on counted votes, it is an integral part of your voting system it seems.

No, it doesn't.
I understand how hard it is for people to understand our obsolete presidential selection system.

But, to illustrate, Trump has never won a single election. He's never come closer to winning than losing by ~3,000,000 votes.

He still wound up POTUS, by the USA system.
Once.
Tom

 

[TomC]

Certainly a couple of counties in Florida in 2000 fucked it up with their butterfly ballots and hanging chads. But I hope that has been fixed by now.

I don't think it has.

One candidate's brother was governor of Florida at the time. The state legislature broke laws whenever it seemed likely to break the way Governor Bush wanted it to for the benefit of GW Bush.

And it worked. Bush II lost the people's election, but won the EC appointment.

I sincerely doubt that the Florida State legislature has become any more democratic since 2000.
Tom

 

[Ford]

The problem is human. Why do you yanks hate and mistrust each other so much?

I have a little bit of a different perspective on this. At least as regards to our former President. He used to be the host of a "reality" show you may have heard of called "The Apprentice."

I lost 2 hours of my life watching the Aust. version.

A woman I know (she was the girlfriend of the guy who took over my job as morning show producer) was a contestant on the 6th season of this show. As such, she had first-hand experience with "The Donald" years before he threw his hat in the Presidential ring. Based on what I heard from her, he is - and this is putting it mildly - a giant piece of misogynistic shit. When he was being introduced to the cast members for that season, he was going down the line, shaking hands and offering platitudes and when he got to my friend stared right at her chest and said something very much like "honey, if you want to get anywhere in this business you're going to have to do something about those."

Not "welcome to the cast" or "we expect great things from you." Just "your tits aren't big enough."

That's what we're dealing with here. We inadvertently elevated a guy to the fucking Presidency that barely has any business being the assistant manager of a bowling alley. And people - hundreds of people - stormed the Capitol building for this asshole.

I was astounded that in 2016 you yanks threw up 2 such foolish (in their own endearing ways), unsuitable candidates.
320 million people to choose from and those 2 were the best you could come up with?

Ah..."both sides are the same."

As we might say here in the states...."dude...seriously?"

I admit to not being the biggest fan of Hillary Rodham Clinton, but claiming that she was equally "unsuitable" compared to Trump is - pardon my French - fucking insane.

Folks who were paying close attention back in the 90s realized that while Bill Clinton was a savvy and charismatic politician, Hillary was the far smarter and far more ruthless operative. Good cop, bad cop and all that. When she was Secretary of State under Obama, Hillary was easily one of the most skilled diplomats the US has had in recent memory. If she were President?

In my lifetime, we've had an interesting mix. Johnson was a ruthless political operative. Nixon was another level. Ford was a basically decent person out of his depth. Carter was an idealist but way, way too nice. Reagan was an amiable dunce, and so on. Had Hillary been able to overcome the electoral deficit, I'd put her along the same lines as Johnson or Bush's VP Cheney. Would I trust her with a burnt out match? No. Would I want her to go toe to toe with Putin? She'd rip his dick off and feed it to him.

Trump was a fucking idiot. Again...not qualified to be the assistant manager of a bowling alley.

 

[Elixir]

Yet the electoral college works on counted votes, it is an integral part of your voting system it seems.

No, it doesn't.
I understand how hard it is for people to understand our obsolete presidential selection system.

But, to illustrate, Trump has never won a single election. He's never come closer to winning than losing by ~3,000,000 votes.

He still wound up POTUS, by the USA system.
Once.
Tom

Trump lost the 2020 popular vote by over 7million. But if less than a tenth of one percent of that difference had voted for Trump, he could have been re-elected while losing by seven million votes.
That should not be remotely possible IMO.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Yet the electoral college works on counted votes, it is an integral part of your voting system it seems.

No, it doesn't.
I understand how hard it is for people to understand our obsolete presidential selection system.

But, to illustrate, Trump has never won a single election. He's never come closer to winning than losing by ~3,000,000 votes.

He still wound up POTUS, by the USA system.
Once.
Tom

Trump lost the 2020 popular vote by over 7million. But if less than a tenth of one percent of that difference had voted for Trump, he could have been re-elected while losing by seven million votes.
That should not be remotely possible IMO.

Well this isn’t a single country it is a federation of states. Back when it was founded it may have made some kind of sense to give smaller states outsize political power but now it will never change because the smaller states will not want to give up their power. Part of the problem was in adding more states just for political gain (why we have two Dakotas for example).

 

[Tigers!]

The problem is human. Why do you yanks hate and mistrust each other so much?

I have a little bit of a different perspective on this. At least as regards to our former President. He used to be the host of a "reality" show you may have heard of called "The Apprentice."

I lost 2 hours of my life watching the Aust. version.

A woman I know (she was the girlfriend of the guy who took over my job as morning show producer) was a contestant on the 6th season of this show. As such, she had first-hand experience with "The Donald" years before he threw his hat in the Presidential ring. Based on what I heard from her, he is - and this is putting it mildly - a giant piece of misogynistic shit. When he was being introduced to the cast members for that season, he was going down the line, shaking hands and offering platitudes and when he got to my friend stared right at her chest and said something very much like "honey, if you want to get anywhere in this business you're going to have to do something about those."

Not "welcome to the cast" or "we expect great things from you." Just "your tits aren't big enough."

That's what we're dealing with here. We inadvertently elevated a guy to the fucking Presidency that barely has any business being the assistant manager of a bowling alley. And people - hundreds of people - stormed the Capitol building for this asshole.

I was astounded that in 2016 you yanks threw up 2 such foolish (in their own endearing ways), unsuitable candidates.
320 million people to choose from and those 2 were the best you could come up with?

Ah..."both sides are the same."

No. An acknowledgement that sometimes any side can throw up an unsuitable (in whatever way) candidate. In 2016 it happened simultaneously.
If I had a vote I could not have voted for either. A nuisance when all candidates are duds.

 

[Ford]

The problem is human. Why do you yanks hate and mistrust each other so much?

I have a little bit of a different perspective on this. At least as regards to our former President. He used to be the host of a "reality" show you may have heard of called "The Apprentice."

I lost 2 hours of my life watching the Aust. version.

A woman I know (she was the girlfriend of the guy who took over my job as morning show producer) was a contestant on the 6th season of this show. As such, she had first-hand experience with "The Donald" years before he threw his hat in the Presidential ring. Based on what I heard from her, he is - and this is putting it mildly - a giant piece of misogynistic shit. When he was being introduced to the cast members for that season, he was going down the line, shaking hands and offering platitudes and when he got to my friend stared right at her chest and said something very much like "honey, if you want to get anywhere in this business you're going to have to do something about those."

Not "welcome to the cast" or "we expect great things from you." Just "your tits aren't big enough."

That's what we're dealing with here. We inadvertently elevated a guy to the fucking Presidency that barely has any business being the assistant manager of a bowling alley. And people - hundreds of people - stormed the Capitol building for this asshole.

I was astounded that in 2016 you yanks threw up 2 such foolish (in their own endearing ways), unsuitable candidates.
320 million people to choose from and those 2 were the best you could come up with?

Ah..."both sides are the same."

No. An acknowledgement that sometimes any side can throw up an unsuitable (in whatever way) candidate. In 2016 it happened simultaneously.
If I had a vote I could not have voted for either. A nuisance when all candidates are duds.

What - exactly - was the thing that led you to believe that a a reality show host and a former Senator/Secretary of State were essentially the same in terms of experience and expertise?

 

[Tigers!]

.

What you yanks seem to need is a consistent, coherent method of voting that reduces the possibility of complaints etc. When you use mechanical, electronic, paper, tally sticks then that inconsistency is ripe fro compaling. Simplify and standardise.

And since no one has come forward with actual evidence that our current system isn’t accurate why do you think we need to change?

Because here in Australia we hear about (far too much) about the comings and goings, to-ing and fro-ing, huffing and puffing of your electoral process. It seems like a shipwreck. If you could get your act together the rest of the world would be much obliged.

 

[Patooka]

Because here in Australia we hear about (far too much) about the comings and goings, to-ing and fro-ing, huffing and puffing of your electoral process.

That's our fucking fault, not theirs. There's an election on in my state this Saturday and not a single fucking news outlet is talking about the leaked tapes of our former Deputy Premier bragging about corruption and implicating our current Premier. US politics is no more or less fucked than ours - we just have lazy cunts as journalists at best and at worst mouthpieces for the Coalition.

 

[Tigers!]

The problem is human. Why do you yanks hate and mistrust each other so much?

I have a little bit of a different perspective on this. At least as regards to our former President. He used to be the host of a "reality" show you may have heard of called "The Apprentice."

I lost 2 hours of my life watching the Aust. version.

A woman I know (she was the girlfriend of the guy who took over my job as morning show producer) was a contestant on the 6th season of this show. As such, she had first-hand experience with "The Donald" years before he threw his hat in the Presidential ring. Based on what I heard from her, he is - and this is putting it mildly - a giant piece of misogynistic shit. When he was being introduced to the cast members for that season, he was going down the line, shaking hands and offering platitudes and when he got to my friend stared right at her chest and said something very much like "honey, if you want to get anywhere in this business you're going to have to do something about those."

Not "welcome to the cast" or "we expect great things from you." Just "your tits aren't big enough."

That's what we're dealing with here. We inadvertently elevated a guy to the fucking Presidency that barely has any business being the assistant manager of a bowling alley. And people - hundreds of people - stormed the Capitol building for this asshole.

I was astounded that in 2016 you yanks threw up 2 such foolish (in their own endearing ways), unsuitable candidates.
320 million people to choose from and those 2 were the best you could come up with?

Ah..."both sides are the same."

No. An acknowledgement that sometimes any side can throw up an unsuitable (in whatever way) candidate. In 2016 it happened simultaneously.
If I had a vote I could not have voted for either. A nuisance when all candidates are duds.

What - exactly - was the thing that led you to believe that a a reality show host and a former Senator/Secretary of State were essentially the same in terms of experience and expertise?

I never claimed that they were the same in experience and expertise. I said that I could not vote for either.
Since you asked so nicely here is why.
Trump - In Australia he would be classed as a drongo or a galah. Enough said.
Clinton - Her monstrous sense of privilege and entitlement would disqualify her. She assumed that her name (Clinton) should be enough. Her thinking that just because she is a woman it was her time. Her expectation that it was her turn for a seat at the top. Her disparagement of many of her fellow citizen's e.g. deplorables. Etc.

 

[ZiprHead]

Because here in Australia we hear about (far too much) about the comings and goings, to-ing and fro-ing, huffing and puffing of your electoral process. It seems like a shipwreck. If you could get your act together the rest of the world would be much obliged.

How is that our fault???

 

[Tigers!]

Because here in Australia we hear about (far too much) about the comings and goings, to-ing and fro-ing, huffing and puffing of your electoral process.

That's our fucking fault, not theirs. There's an election on in my state this Saturday and not a single fucking news outlet is talking about the leaked tapes of our former Deputy Premier bragging about corruption and implicating our current Premier. US politics is no more or less fucked than ours - we just have lazy cunts as journalists at best and at worst mouthpieces for the Coalition.

I know that there is an election in your state this Saturday. Saturday is a much better day than a week day to have an election. If no outlet is talking about the leaked tapes how do you know of their existence?
I, too, have little regard for the media in Australia. They as lazy as you say (but I would not use the vulgar adjective you did). Very few could ask an intelligent question if their life depended upon it.
You claim that the NSW media is a mouthpiece for the Coalition. In Victoria it is a love-in for Andrews. Neither of us get what we want.

 

[Tigers!]

Because here in Australia we hear about (far too much) about the comings and goings, to-ing and fro-ing, huffing and puffing of your electoral process. It seems like a shipwreck. If you could get your act together the rest of the world would be much obliged.

How is that our fault???

If the complaints, claims, counter-claims did not exist then it would be blessedly quiet.

 

[Patooka]

Because here in Australia we hear about (far too much) about the comings and goings, to-ing and fro-ing, huffing and puffing of your electoral process. It seems like a shipwreck. If you could get your act together the rest of the world would be much obliged.

How is that our fault???

Because collectively, as a nation, we disowned Murdoch decades ago. He's now your fault. We still take responsibility for Peter Costello, though.