Honestly, I just don't understand how a male could so casually dismiss these rather strong opinions from women on this subject
For the same reason I casually dismiss prohibition era concerns, that I dismiss the concerns of MADD,
You dismiss the concerns of Mothers Against Drunk Drivers?!?
It's not the penis, it's the testosterone, and attacking trans women because they want access to a space NOT full of 'roided up folks is valid IFF they are not also 'roided up. Similarly, I think it's valid to exclude those who produce sperm.
#NotAllMen again.
Look. Women have a very valid reason to be self-protective against men. It starts with the fact that men
target us.. They don’t target men, we get picked, They look for us. We all know this. It goes on, to men playing against social norms, backing people into corners, using the politeness factor to get even closer, past the safe zone. And it ends with men wanting to harm us.
And I say this with frustration because you continue to insist on telling women how we should view the world of threats we have grown up in, and you persist with this unbelievably insulting storyline that women should not beware of penises, we should beware of balls.
We don’t need to fucking hear from you #NotAllMen.
No shit, Sherlock. Welcome to our world. Faaaaahck. You think we don’t know that?
But we also know that it is not possible to tell which ones are dangerous until they are too close. And we’re not stupid enough to give up the head start if we can help it.
And here comes you with your privileged, fucking arrogant ManSplainin’ telling us we should
ask for a fucking calling card !?!? before deciding we need to protect ourselves? That we should
ask to see their balls?. To find out if they belong to the subset of men who would harm us? The people who walk around with penises who harm us?
Take a hike. Stop telling us what to feel or how to navigate being a woman in this world.
And I will reiterate, loudly, HOW MUCH HARM YOU DO TO THE CAUSE OF TRANS WOMEN by claiming that they are party to your stupid testosterone test, and they they have no reason to seek out women’s spaces at all until they have finished checking in the men’s locker room the testosterone card of every penis-wearer that they encounter before they decide they need to GTFO and be safe with a locked door.
Emily could just accept "ok, I will absolutely tolerate people in the bathroom so long as they don't have testicles and aren't shooting steroids, or have a valid physical security argument such as egg/sperm."
Here you are again telling Emily how to be a woman.
I’m trying to picture your world where everyone has to show that they don’t have testicles before entering a women’s room. WTF Jarhyn???
She is hardline against ANYONE born with a penis being included. That's the difference.
And you are lumping everyone else into the same basket. She may be against those born with a penis, but I am against anyone who
still has a penis being included in women’s shelters, and probably locker rooms where changing is taking place - if it’s a place they have to be (like school, you can’t avoid the locker room). Yet you talk about us all as being wrong to understand our protective spaces.
I present a compromise. The fact that she utterly rejects it puts the lie to her claims of concern.
You do not present a “compromise.” You present a ridiculous situation of women having to ask for a card to identlify the absolutely miniscule percent of people with penises who have an invisible dimension that makes them “not as bad as” men with testoreone, but still worse than people who have never had testosterone While having the exact body part that has caused the trauma.
That’s not a compromise. That’s an arrogant expectation that tries to tell women how to navigate the world that is a danger to them.
I know this from personal experience, seeing as I myself have stopped taking the steroid, and am pointedly aware of my loss of physical ability.
You will lose physical strength relative to other men. You will not, however, end up having the level of strength of a woman.
Seriously, you are persistent in placing your entire perspective from the assumption that males are the default, and that "not men" is anyone who doesn't meet that standard. You seem unable to understand that women are not "lesser men" or "failed men" or "not men". Women are fundamentally different.
Your lack of testosterone in your system does not make you any less male. It certainly does not make you comparable to a female.
I disagree with Emily here, since I do not equate “male” with having testorerone *or* having a penis, because I am perfectly comfortable with the notion that “male” is a continuum and sometimes even fluid altogether, and is separate from “sex”, and someone whose brain has made their sense of gender “male” is as male as they feel, and I hate the gender labels in the first place because what is exactly “male” anyway given our rediculously artificial stereotypes of “male”.
BUT, a person with a penis who lacks testosterone has to deal with the fact, like every other person with a penis, that they belong to a group that women have always needed to protect themselves against. #NotAllMen, of course, for the #AllLivesMatter crowd, but in the amount of time we have to protect ourselves from a known threat, indistinguishable. Sorry #AllMen, we protect ourselves All The Time because we have to.
No, a lack of testicles would make me "less male", seeing as male is defined by exactly "sperms".
You define male that way. Not everyone does. Not the gender fluid, and not the pre-transitioned trans woman. You throwing them under the bus, now?
As to making me less masculine, it absolutely does that, and if I wanted to be as feminine as you... Well, can't undo a cut, and I wouldn't want to push further in that direction.
What does that even mean?
