Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[TomC]

The main difference between Israel and Islam is that Islamists’ leaders are right up front about wanting to wipe out Israel and Israeli Jews, whereas Israel’s leadership wants to wipe out Gazan and West Bank Muslims without ever having to admit that was their goal.

Nah, bullshit.
Zionists want one small country where Jewish people can be safe from the government. Permanently.
Muslim supremacists will kill and die to keep Zionists out. It's what supremacists do.

The big problem for Gazans right now is the degree to which Muslim supremacists will sacrifice Gazans to achieve the ethnic cleansing of Israel. If the Muslim supremacists would let Gazans move towards peace and prosperity, by cooperation with Israel, things could start improving for the regular people. But the use of Gazans for cannon fodder and human shields continues to benefit Islamic terrorists, so I am not expecting any big improvement for the foreseeable future.
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

Israel's growing frustration over the war in Gaza erupts in nationwide protests

Israeli protesters demanding a deal to free hostages in Gaza have attempted to shut down the country in one of the largest and fiercest protests in 22 months of war.

apnews.com

JERUSALEM (AP) — Israeli protesters demanding a deal to free hostages in Gaza attempted to shut down the country Sunday in one of the largest and fiercest protests in 22 months of war. Organizers, representing the families of hostages, asserted that hundreds of thousands of people took part.

Frustration is growing in Israel over plans for a new military offensive in some of Gaza’s most populated areas. Many Israelis fear that could further endanger the remaining hostages. Twenty of the 50 who remain are believed to be alive.

“We live between a terrorist organization that holds our children and a government that refuses to release them for political reasons,” said Yehuda Cohen, whose son Nimrod is held in Gaza.

Even some former Israeli army and intelligence chiefs now call for a deal to end the fighting.

Protesters gathered at dozens of places including outside politicians’ homes, military headquarters and on major highways. They blocked lanes and lit bonfires. Some restaurants and theaters closed in solidarity. Police said they arrested 38 people.

One protester carried a photo of an emaciated Palestinian child from Gaza. Such images were once rare at Israeli demonstrations but now appear more often as outrage grows over conditions in the territory after more than 250 malnutrition-related deaths.

Wow. Look at all those antisemites.

 

[Toni]

The main difference between Israel and Islam is that Islamists’ leaders are right up front about wanting to wipe out Israel and Israeli Jews, whereas Israel’s leadership wants to wipe out Gazan and West Bank Muslims without ever having to admit that was their goal.

Nah, bullshit.
Zionists want one small country where Jewish people can be safe from the government. Permanently.
Muslim supremacists will kill and die to keep Zionists out. It's what supremacists do.

The big problem for Gazans right now is the degree to which Muslim supremacists will sacrifice Gazans to achieve the ethnic cleansing of Israel. If the Muslim supremacists would let Gazans move towards peace and prosperity, by cooperation with Israel, things could start improving for the regular people. But the use of Gazans for cannon fodder and human shields continues to benefit Islamic terrorists, so I am not expecting any big improvement for the foreseeable future.
Tom

A couple of corrections: Israel wants to exist as a homeland for Jews without threats from others to their existence. Hamas has declared that it wants to eliminate all Jews world wide and they are happily starting with Israel. I’m not certain who you see as muslim supremacists but the goal for them is to maintain their power. Declaring Israel or the US or whoever as their mortal enemy is mostly political theater. If you want to distract from your own shortcomings or issues, you point the finger at someone else. And shout and scream and issue stupid threats and find people stupid enough to carry out your threats for you and then tell your followers that the inevitable death and maiming and destruction of lives and the associated loss of social structure, housing, hospitals, science, cultural touchstones and history itself is the just price of freedom.

People reading this might find some similarities elsewhere in the world and certainly, what is happening in Israel and Africa and the US and Ukraine is quite similar to what happened in Europe and elsewhere in the 30’s through the end of WW II. Completely with complicity of the masses.

 

[Elixir]

Zionists want one small country where Jewish people can be safe from the government

So do Americans, (‘cept they want a big un) But you don’t always get what you want.
QED.
Bibi is as corrupt as Our Dear Felon, much better practiced at leveraging the conflict to his own advantage and even more likely to end up imprisoned if he loses power.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Israel's growing frustration over the war in Gaza erupts in nationwide protests

Israeli protesters demanding a deal to free hostages in Gaza have attempted to shut down the country in one of the largest and fiercest protests in 22 months of war.

apnews.com

JERUSALEM (AP) — Israeli protesters demanding a deal to free hostages in Gaza attempted to shut down the country Sunday in one of the largest and fiercest protests in 22 months of war. Organizers, representing the families of hostages, asserted that hundreds of thousands of people took part.

Frustration is growing in Israel over plans for a new military offensive in some of Gaza’s most populated areas. Many Israelis fear that could further endanger the remaining hostages. Twenty of the 50 who remain are believed to be alive.

“We live between a terrorist organization that holds our children and a government that refuses to release them for political reasons,” said Yehuda Cohen, whose son Nimrod is held in Gaza.

Even some former Israeli army and intelligence chiefs now call for a deal to end the fighting.

Protesters gathered at dozens of places including outside politicians’ homes, military headquarters and on major highways. They blocked lanes and lit bonfires. Some restaurants and theaters closed in solidarity. Police said they arrested 38 people.

One protester carried a photo of an emaciated Palestinian child from Gaza. Such images were once rare at Israeli demonstrations but now appear more often as outrage grows over conditions in the territory after more than 250 malnutrition-related deaths.

View attachment 51803

Wow. Look at all those antisemites.

Israel has the same divide as in the rest of the west. The left have a rediculously submissive, (and suicidal) attitude toward Hamas. While the right are the only ones willing to push back.

Having progressive values today seems to mean that we give up on all our values and become passive victims. Its just sad to witness

 

[Tigers!]

Pity the west does not bother too much about violence between non-whites.

What sort of intervention do you propose?

I do not recall suggesting intervention.
But I see no protests in the streets here is Aust. or overseas deploring the deaths in Africa and wanting sanctions against whomever.
The uni students are not having lock-ins or lockouts about it.
UN does not seem particularly exercised by this unlike Gaza or Ukraine.

 

[Politesse]

Pity the west does not bother too much about violence between non-whites.

What sort of intervention do you propose?

I do not recall suggesting intervention.
But I see no protests in the streets here is Aust. or overseas deploring the deaths in Africa and wanting sanctions against whomever.
The uni students are not having lock-ins or lockouts about it.
UN does not seem particularly exercised by this unlike Gaza or Ukraine.

So you want for there to be student protests over the situation in Darfur? To what end?

 

[Tigers!]

I largely agree with you ( minus seeing a lot of Americans hating Palestinians— not sure I agree) but I take issue with you calling this Netanyahu’s war: Hamas started this and could have ended it by releasing the hostages. So it is imo, wrong to blame all of this on Netanyahu. He’s despicable, yes. But Hamas does not have even a millimeter of high ground here. Both sides are despicable. Both sides are responsible for thousands of deaths and the starvation of hundreds of thousands. Both Netanyahu and Hamas need to go.

I agree with most of that, except the highlighted.

Why do you not agree with the embolded text?

 

[Tigers!]

Pity the west does not bother too much about violence between non-whites.

What sort of intervention do you propose?

I do not recall suggesting intervention.
But I see no protests in the streets here is Aust. or overseas deploring the deaths in Africa and wanting sanctions against whomever.
The uni students are not having lock-ins or lockouts about it.
UN does not seem particularly exercised by this unlike Gaza or Ukraine.

So you want for there to be student protests over the situation in Darfur? To what end?

Precisely the same end as to the protests about Gaza. End to the killings, destruction. Justice if possible.
(Oh an end to hate would be nice but that is a bridge too far.)

 

[Tigers!]

But Hamas has stated their intent to do it over and over until all the Jews are dead. I see no need to "believe" it was attempted genocide when they proclaim it.

Intent is not outcome. Without the means to even come close to the your alleged outcome, it is not an actual attempt.

There is a legal doctrine of attempted murder. You do not have to be successful i.e. kill the victiom, to be guilty. So yes it is considered an actual attempt. Intent is the key not the outcome. The outcome is obviously important but it is not the only factor.

Attempted murder requires the means for the attempt: the perpetrators of Oct. 7 did not have the means. Nor did the perpetrators make the effort to attempt genocide.

The attack was horrific enough that it does not require such inane embellishment as to call it attempted genocide.

I have not called Hamas' attack attempted genocide. Others may have done so but not I.

 

[Tigers!]

But Hamas has stated their intent to do it over and over until all the Jews are dead. I see no need to "believe" it was attempted genocide when they proclaim it.

Intent is not outcome. Without the means to even come close to the your alleged outcome, it is not an actual attempt.

There is a legal doctrine of attempted murder. You do not have to be successful i.e. kill the victiom, to be guilty. So yes it is considered an actual attempt. Intent is the key not the outcome. The outcome is obviously important but it is not the only factor.

Attempted murder requires the means for the attempt: the perpetrators of Oct. 7 did not have the means.

So no Jews were murdered on 7th Oct?

Nor did the perpetrators make the effort to attempt genocide.

The attack was horrific enough that it does not require such inane embellishment as to call it attempted genocide.

See above

 

[Politesse]

Pity the west does not bother too much about violence between non-whites.

What sort of intervention do you propose?

I do not recall suggesting intervention.
But I see no protests in the streets here is Aust. or overseas deploring the deaths in Africa and wanting sanctions against whomever.
The uni students are not having lock-ins or lockouts about it.
UN does not seem particularly exercised by this unlike Gaza or Ukraine.

So you want for there to be student protests over the situation in Darfur? To what end?

Precisely the same end as to the protests about Gaza. End to the killings, destruction. Justice if possible.
(Oh an end to hate would be nice but that is a bridge too far.)

So you are calling for student protests concerning Darfur?

 

[ZiprHead]

I largely agree with you ( minus seeing a lot of Americans hating Palestinians— not sure I agree) but I take issue with you calling this Netanyahu’s war: Hamas started this and could have ended it by releasing the hostages. So it is imo, wrong to blame all of this on Netanyahu. He’s despicable, yes. But Hamas does not have even a millimeter of high ground here. Both sides are despicable. Both sides are responsible for thousands of deaths and the starvation of hundreds of thousands. Both Netanyahu and Hamas need to go.

I agree with most of that, except the highlighted.

Why do you not agree with the embolded text?

Because I don't think releasing the hostages would have stopped the war.

 

[laughing dog]

But Hamas has stated their intent to do it over and over until all the Jews are dead. I see no need to "believe" it was attempted genocide when they proclaim it.

Intent is not outcome. Without the means to even come close to the your alleged outcome, it is not an actual attempt.

There is a legal doctrine of attempted murder. You do not have to be successful i.e. kill the victiom, to be guilty. So yes it is considered an actual attempt. Intent is the key not the outcome. The outcome is obviously important but it is not the only factor.

Attempted murder requires the means for the attempt: the perpetrators of Oct. 7 did not have the means. Nor did the perpetrators make the effort to attempt genocide.

The attack was horrific enough that it does not require such inane embellishment as to call it attempted genocide.

I have not called Hamas' attack attempted genocide. Others may have done so but not I.

No one said you did.

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

Pity the west does not bother too much about violence between non-whites.

What sort of intervention do you propose?

I do not recall suggesting intervention.
But I see no protests in the streets here is Aust. or overseas deploring the deaths in Africa and wanting sanctions against whomever.
The uni students are not having lock-ins or lockouts about it.
UN does not seem particularly exercised by this unlike Gaza or Ukraine.

So you want for there to be student protests over the situation in Darfur? To what end?

Precisely the same end as to the protests about Gaza. End to the killings, destruction. Justice if possible.
(Oh an end to hate would be nice but that is a bridge too far.)

How much influence do you think the government of Darfur has on the Australian government and media? It's a rhetorical question. On the other hand the Israeli government has massive influence, and that is one of the things people protest about. Another issue is the troubles in Darfur are internal, whereas Israel is attacking another nation, just like Russia is attacking Ukraine, and in both cases the invader claims that the other is a part of their nation.

 

[Toni]

I largely agree with you ( minus seeing a lot of Americans hating Palestinians— not sure I agree) but I take issue with you calling this Netanyahu’s war: Hamas started this and could have ended it by releasing the hostages. So it is imo, wrong to blame all of this on Netanyahu. He’s despicable, yes. But Hamas does not have even a millimeter of high ground here. Both sides are despicable. Both sides are responsible for thousands of deaths and the starvation of hundreds of thousands. Both Netanyahu and Hamas need to go.

I agree with most of that, except the highlighted.

Why do you not agree with the embolded text?

Because I don't think releasing the hostages would have stopped the war.

I don’t think the war would still be going on if Hamas had released the hostages. The biggest reason is that Israel would not be able to claim any justification.

I also think the timing of the Hamas attack was chosen to disrupt American politics.

 

[laughing dog]

But Hamas has stated their intent to do it over and over until all the Jews are dead. I see no need to "believe" it was attempted genocide when they proclaim it.

Intent is not outcome. Without the means to even come close to the your alleged outcome, it is not an actual attempt.

There is a legal doctrine of attempted murder. You do not have to be successful i.e. kill the victiom, to be guilty. So yes it is considered an actual attempt. Intent is the key not the outcome. The outcome is obviously important but it is not the only factor.

Attempted murder requires the means for the attempt: the perpetrators of Oct. 7 did not have the means.

So no Jews were murdered on 7th Oct?

Genocide means murder but murder does not mean genocide.

Sorry, but it is hyperbolic rhetoric to call that attack “attempted genocide”. The massacre was gruesome and horrific but that does not make it an attempt at genocide.

 

[ZiprHead]

I largely agree with you ( minus seeing a lot of Americans hating Palestinians— not sure I agree) but I take issue with you calling this Netanyahu’s war: Hamas started this and could have ended it by releasing the hostages. So it is imo, wrong to blame all of this on Netanyahu. He’s despicable, yes. But Hamas does not have even a millimeter of high ground here. Both sides are despicable. Both sides are responsible for thousands of deaths and the starvation of hundreds of thousands. Both Netanyahu and Hamas need to go.

I agree with most of that, except the highlighted.

Why do you not agree with the embolded text?

Because I don't think releasing the hostages would have stopped the war.

I don’t think the war would still be going on if Hamas had released the hostages. The biggest reason is that Israel would not be able to claim any justification.

Killing over a thousand civilians would be their justification.

I also think the timing of the Hamas attack was chosen to disrupt American politics.

Just about any major event in Israel disrupts American politics.

 

[Tigers!]

Pity the west does not bother too much about violence between non-whites.

What sort of intervention do you propose?

I do not recall suggesting intervention.
But I see no protests in the streets here is Aust. or overseas deploring the deaths in Africa and wanting sanctions against whomever.
The uni students are not having lock-ins or lockouts about it.
UN does not seem particularly exercised by this unlike Gaza or Ukraine.

So you want for there to be student protests over the situation in Darfur? To what end?

Precisely the same end as to the protests about Gaza. End to the killings, destruction. Justice if possible.
(Oh an end to hate would be nice but that is a bridge too far.)

So you are calling for student protests concerning Darfur?

Any protests against Darfur would show that at least we are concerned about what us happening beyond the places that we habitually pay attention too. And it is bigger than just Darfur. All of Sudan in turmoil with fighting, rapine occuring all over.

 

[laughing dog]

I largely agree with you ( minus seeing a lot of Americans hating Palestinians— not sure I agree) but I take issue with you calling this Netanyahu’s war: Hamas started this and could have ended it by releasing the hostages. So it is imo, wrong to blame all of this on Netanyahu. He’s despicable, yes. But Hamas does not have even a millimeter of high ground here. Both sides are despicable. Both sides are responsible for thousands of deaths and the starvation of hundreds of thousands. Both Netanyahu and Hamas need to go.

I agree with most of that, except the highlighted.

Why do you not agree with the embolded text?

Because I don't think releasing the hostages would have stopped the war.

I don’t think the war would still be going on if Hamas had released the hostages. The biggest reason is that Israel would not be able to claim any justification.

Killing over a thousand civilians would be their justification.

. At the start of the war, the gov’t of Israel said their goal was to get the hostages back and to destroy Hamas. Returning the hostages was insufficient to stop the war if one takes the gov’t of Israel’s word.

I suspect Hamas took hostages to mitigate the response they expected and that backfired on them.