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The Race For 2024

The variation between Christianity and Islam is not substantively greater than the variation within Christianity.
:cautious: Sure sure, that whole mohammed versus jesus thing is totally not an important distinction at all. I mean, it's not like there are ENTIRE BOOKS about one that never reference the other, right?
And of course, within Christianity there are not ENTIRE BOOKS about the Latter Day Saints that other parts of Christianity don't mention at all, right?
 
Speaking of actuarial stuff, I was outside admiring space junk and started wondering how much more likely it would be for me to get hit and killed or injured by a meteorite at my altitude (7450ft) than at sea level. I also began to wonder, given the preponderance of North -South orbits, are the skies over the poles now constantly lit up with thousands of satellites crossing the poles from all directions? I mean, even here at less than 40° from the equator, they’re pretty thick. By the time all those orbital paths converge at the poles, it must be spectacular to watch.
 
People do horrible things. With or without religion
Oh totally. And the reasons they do horrible things are just a complete mystery, and has nothing at all to do with what they believe. There's absolutely no correlation at all between belief systems that promote and inculcate those horrible things as proper and people who follow those religions doing the horrible things they've been taught to believe are good. Nope. No relationship at all.
How much do you know about early days of Communist China?
Do you think that a lack of religion means there's no belief system?
Not at all. I just don’t think that religion has a monopoly on teaching people to believe horrible things.

Modern Christianity is based upon a book that has been translated many times from the original writings, and both translated and edited to reflect the attitudes and biases and often political ambitions of those who transcribed and edited.

I do not know the extent to which this is true of the Koran or Talmud. Or the holy books of other faiths. I have a particularly dim view of the Book of Mormon.
Just making you noticed that I didn't limit my comment to religion...
 
Are you sure about that? While I understand that many Christians reject the idea of Mormons being Christian at all, and mainstream Mormons reject FDLS, FDLS consider themselves Christian and they pretty much consider women as property.

Oh, and Project 2025 and its successive missives ….
This is dinsingenuous. I have a hard time believing that you're not aware that it's disingenuous.

That or you've completely closed your eyes and ears to the reality that women in Afghanistan and Iran and similar fundamentalist muslim countries. Pretending these are the even close to the same things is like insisting that foxes are wolves because they're both in the Canidae family.
There is not nearly the difference between living under conservative Islamic rule and living under the FDLS—or under the future that Project 2025 and I understand but have not read its successor time envisions that you wish.

I am well aware of what living under conservative religious regimes entails and it has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with control. God or ‘God’ is just the excuse.
I get that we disagree on a lot of things, but this is truly baffling to me.

Do you genuinely think that there's not a difference between women being stoned to death for having been raped, and their brothers getting to revenge-rape the sisters of the rapist (who is then stoned to death for having been raped)... and being expected to be a housewife?
The difference is in degree. So far, the notion that all women must be housewives and mothers is just a start. Don’t make any mistake about that . Once one can control a group a little by authority of God ( or whomever/whatever) it is virtually inevitable that the desire to control and the scope of control both grow…out of control.


And of course the truism that absolute power corrupts absolutely.
The degree is kind of important though. Even at the very worst eras of oppressive christian control, women had more liberty and freedoms than they do in Afghanistan in 2026.
 
The variation between Christianity and Islam is not substantively greater than the variation within Christianity.
:cautious: Sure sure, that whole mohammed versus jesus thing is totally not an important distinction at all. I mean, it's not like there are ENTIRE BOOKS about one that never reference the other, right?
And of course, within Christianity there are not ENTIRE BOOKS about the Latter Day Saints that other parts of Christianity don't mention at all, right?
Of course there are. That makes LDS substantially different from other Christian sects, and supports the argument that it doesn't fall within the parameters of christianity at all, but constitutes a related but different religion.

Either way... I think you're statement is obviously false - there is less variation within christianity (caveat LDS) than there is between christianity and islam.
 
This '2024' race is a very long one.

Does anyone have any idea when it is expected to finish?
Never.

It's an interesting thing. As our membership here has shrunk to a relatively small number of active participants... the thread creep has increased. I think it's relatively natural, but yeah, it does tend to result in a lot of side conversations and derails and mutations away from topic.

Give it another couple of years and we'll be down to just a few threads total.
 
Speaking of actuarial stuff, I was outside admiring space junk and started wondering how much more likely it would be for me to get hit and killed or injured by a meteorite at my altitude (7450ft) than at sea level. I also began to wonder, given the preponderance of North -South orbits, are the skies over the poles now constantly lit up with thousands of satellites crossing the poles from all directions? I mean, even here at less than 40° from the equator, they’re pretty thick. By the time all those orbital paths converge at the poles, it must be spectacular to watch.
Interesting question.

@Alcoholic Actuary are you P&C? I think this is more likely a P&C type of question than a health one.
 
Are you sure about that? While I understand that many Christians reject the idea of Mormons being Christian at all, and mainstream Mormons reject FDLS, FDLS consider themselves Christian and they pretty much consider women as property.

Oh, and Project 2025 and its successive missives ….
This is dinsingenuous. I have a hard time believing that you're not aware that it's disingenuous.

That or you've completely closed your eyes and ears to the reality that women in Afghanistan and Iran and similar fundamentalist muslim countries. Pretending these are the even close to the same things is like insisting that foxes are wolves because they're both in the Canidae family.
There is not nearly the difference between living under conservative Islamic rule and living under the FDLS—or under the future that Project 2025 and I understand but have not read its successor time envisions that you wish.

I am well aware of what living under conservative religious regimes entails and it has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with control. God or ‘God’ is just the excuse.
I get that we disagree on a lot of things, but this is truly baffling to me.

Do you genuinely think that there's not a difference between women being stoned to death for having been raped, and their brothers getting to revenge-rape the sisters of the rapist (who is then stoned to death for having been raped)... and being expected to be a housewife?
The difference is in degree. So far, the notion that all women must be housewives and mothers is just a start. Don’t make any mistake about that . Once one can control a group a little by authority of God ( or whomever/whatever) it is virtually inevitable that the desire to control and the scope of control both grow…out of control.


And of course the truism that absolute power corrupts absolutely.
The degree is kind of important though. Even at the very worst eras of oppressive christian control, women had more liberty and freedoms than they do in Afghanistan in 2026.
Not according to my understanding of the FLDS sects which did not just heavily promote child brides but also drive out young men who might object to having no options for marriage themselves, all post pubescent females being claimed by older men. When individuals managed to escape, the rest of society is not nearly so repressive and such individuals found sanctuary and help. So, in that way it is better than Afghanistan under the Taliban.

Do you know how and why the Taliban rose to power?
 
Either way... I think you're statement is obviously false - there is less variation within christianity (caveat LDS) than there is between christianity and islam.
It's obviously true, until you carve out LDS for no reason n particular. What makes them "not Christian", other than a desire tomportray Christianity as not diverse?
 
Either way... I think you're statement is obviously false - there is less variation within christianity (caveat LDS) than there is between christianity and islam.
It's obviously true, until you carve out LDS for no reason n particular. What makes them "not Christian", other than a desire tomportray Christianity as not diverse?
Your own stipulation, which I accepted:
And of course, within Christianity there are not ENTIRE BOOKS about the Latter Day Saints that other parts of Christianity don't mention at all, right?

That's the reason, and it's not "no particular". It's a very particular reason, which you advanced.
 
Either way... I think you're statement is obviously false - there is less variation within christianity (caveat LDS) than there is between christianity and islam.
It's obviously true, until you carve out LDS for no reason n particular. What makes them "not Christian", other than a desire tomportray Christianity as not diverse?
Your own stipulation, which I accepted:
And of course, within Christianity there are not ENTIRE BOOKS about the Latter Day Saints that other parts of Christianity don't mention at all, right?

That's the reason, and it's not "no particular". It's a very particular reason, which you advanced.
...as a response to your claim that ENTIRE BOOKS were the defining feature of religions that (unlike Christianity) are very diverse.

You are mistaken - unless you make the No True Christian argument that eliminates the LDS from Christianity. Indeed, you are mistaken even with that caveat unless you also consider Roman Catholicism "not real Christianity". Which many Protestant sects do.

Ultimately though, all the Abrahamic religions are very diverse, and most play the same game of claiming other sects as "us" when estimating how much political influence their opinions ought to have; But as "them" when assessing whose opinions to put forward.

"I represent the views and votes of a billion Christians", they say, "so the leaders of democratic nations should prohibit liquor sales". But they don't mention that alcohol prohibition is not supported by the vast majority of that billion - most of whom don't interpret temperance as a message of the Bible.

Islam is similarly fractured. A Muslim co-worker once came with me to a football match, after I was given corporate box tickets by a supplier. Food and drink were laid on, and I remember Ali standing with a (free) beer in each hand, rejecting the sandwiches because the waitress couldn't guarantee that they contained no pork.

I asked if be wasn't also prohibited from alcohol consumption, and he said "My wife says that I shouldn't get drunk, and I tell her 'God has told me the same thing, and I don't pay attention to him, so why would I pay attention to you?'".

The point being that belivers areall individuals, and mostly cherry-pick; And that Muslims are no less diverse than Christians in that regard.

The existence of fundy nutbars who want to impose strict religious beliefs on everybody, with severe punishments for transgressors, is not particular to Islam, nor is Islam particularly prone to it. If you are concerned that some loony might wind back women's rights, and you live in the USA, then you would be crazy to focus that concern on Islam, while ignoring the clear and present threat of Christianity.

And if you think that all, or even most, Muslims are fundy nutbars, then you are simply misinformed - there are very few such idiots in any religion. But they are generally vocal, often oddly popular with their more moderate co-religionists, and always keen to claim far more support than they actually weild.
 
How much do you know about early days of Communist China?
That is a very interesting question … I’m asking it to myself, because back then I admit I thought of the Chinese as a monolith of obedient pets, kept by a few cruel owners. The cruelty manifest by the government was just more oriental disregard for human life, like more Kmer Rouge.
But things change. At this juncture the Chinese government, for all its famous torture, mass murder and cultural genocide, is apparently more kind to, and concerned with the welfare of the masses than is the Trump administration.
 

The existence of fundy nutbars who want to impose strict religious beliefs on everybody, with severe punishments for transgressors, is not particular to Islam, nor is Islam particularly prone to it. If you are concerned that some loony might wind back women's rights, and you live in the USA, then you would be crazy to focus that concern on Islam, while ignoring the clear and present threat of Christianity.
And yet, on this board, there are a number of posters who ignore the more real and impending threat of white Dominionist Christianity while looking under their beds for Islamists.
 

The existence of fundy nutbars who want to impose strict religious beliefs on everybody, with severe punishments for transgressors, is not particular to Islam, nor is Islam particularly prone to it. If you are concerned that some loony might wind back women's rights, and you live in the USA, then you would be crazy to focus that concern on Islam, while ignoring the clear and present threat of Christianity.
And yet, on this board, there are a number of posters who ignore the more real and impending threat of white Dominionist Christianity while looking under their beds for Islamists.
This.

One asshole Republican congressman just said you cannot be a member of Congress without believing in Jesus Christ.
 
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