Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[steve_bank]

Out of curiosity.

AI Summary
Should You Trust Everything AI Says from a Web Search?

No — AI web search results can be accurate, but they are not infallible, and you should always verify them with other sources.
Why AI search isn’t perfect

AI-powered search tools (like Google’s AI Overviews, ChatGPT with web browsing, or Gemini) combine multiple steps: parsing your query, retrieving webpages, and synthesizing them into a conversational answer

There are some cases I remember. Saudi Arabia extradited a Saudi national form a Muslim state I for what for religious comments in an email.

I remember this one. I thought it was the death penalty, maybe I was wrong.

The case you may be referring to involves Fazıl Say, one of Turkey’s most famous pianists and composers. In April 2013, a Turkish court sentenced him to a 10‑month suspended jail term for “insulting religious values” after posting several tweets that critics said were blasphemous

Saudi Arabia urged to spare Sri Lankan sentenced to death over Facebook post

Anojan Sivarasa faces execution after he was found guilty of blasphemy over a Facebook comment.

www.bbc.com

Speaking through tears, Rasamanickam Yogalakshmi made a desperate plea for the life of her eldest son, Anojan Sivarasa. The 24-year-old migrant worker is facing the death penalty in Saudi Arabia after an appellate court found him guilty of blasphemy against Islam and the Prophet Muhammad over a comment he made on Facebook.

There are human rights watch groups that post current prosecutions for religious crimes.

There was and maybe there is a reformation movement in Islam to get rid of the old religious crimes.

I do not think Z would want to live in a Muslim majority country. You would not want to openly preach conversion to another religion or promote atheism. Or be critical of Islam.

In Saudi Arabia there is the death penalty for apostasy.

Saudi Arabia is one of the few countries in the world that still actively enforces the death penalty. The kingdom’s justice system, rooted in Islamic Sharia law, mandates capital punishment for a range of offenses, including murder, terrorism, drug trafficking, apostasy, and sorcery.

That is why I say the Mid East Arabs are an anachronism. They are a medieval culture in modern times.

Don't know about now, in contrast Israel had a rule based secular democratic system with civil rights. It was founded as a secular state..

 

[Shadowy Man]

At the risk of continuing to use Google as suggested here’s the list of Muslim majority countries it provided:

A global consensus defines a Muslim-majority country as one where more than 50% of the population practices Islam. There are 50 to 53 countries that meet this exact criterion. [1, 2]
Nations with massive Muslim populations living as a religious minority (such as India at ~15%, Ethiopia at ~31%, and China at ~2%) have been strictly excluded from this list. Nigeria is included because its most recent consensus data puts its Muslim percentage between 50% and 53.5%. [1, 2, 3]
The complete list of these countries is organized below by region, along with the approximate percentage of their population that practices Islam: [1, 2, 3, 4]

Asia & Central Asia

• Afghanistan: 99.7%
• Azerbaijan: 97.3%
• Bangladesh: 91.0%
• Brunei: 80.0%+
• Indonesia: 87.1%
• Kazakhstan: 70.2%
• Kyrgyzstan: 90.0%
• Malaysia: 63.5%
• Maldives: 98.4%
• Pakistan: 96.5%
• Tajikistan: 97.9%
• Turkmenistan: 93.7%
• Uzbekistan: 88.7% [1, 2]

Middle East & North Africa (MENA)

• Algeria: 99.0%
• Bahrain: 69.7% (of total population, ~99% of citizens)
• Egypt: 92.3%
• Iran: 99.8%
• Iraq: 96.5%
• Jordan: 97.2%
• Kuwait: 74.0%
• Lebanon: 67.0% - 70.0%
• Libya: 97.0%
• Morocco: 99.0%
• Oman: 85.0%+
• Palestine: 97.5%
• Qatar: 77.0%
• Saudi Arabia: 96.2%
• Sudan: 96.0%
• Syria: 87.0%
• Tunisia: 97.8%
• Turkey: 94.5%
• United Arab Emirates: 72.0% - 76.0%
• Yemen: 97.2% [1, 2, 3]

⾟ Sub-Saharan Africa

• Burkina Faso: 63.8%
• Chad: 55.1%
• Comoros: 98.0%
• Djibouti: 94.0%+
• Gambia: 95.0%+
• Guinea: 89.1%
• Guinea-Bissau: 50.0%+
• Mali: 96.2%
• Mauritania: 99.9%
• Niger: 98.3%
• Nigeria: 50.0% - 53.5%
• Senegal: 97.2%
• Sierra Leone: 78.6%
• Somalia: 99.8% [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Europe

• Albania: 50.0% - 58.0%
• Kosovo: 93.7%

I note that not all of these are Arab countries. Surely some, if not many, and possibly, as some here are arguing, most may be authoritarian countries. But surely some are also not.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Further pasting for completeness sake then I will quit with this obviously upsetting line of inquiry:

Based on indexes from independent tracking organizations—primarily the Economist Intelligence Unit (EIU) Democracy Index and Freedom House—the list of 51 Muslim-majority countries can be split into two main structural categories: Authoritarian Regimes (where power is heavily centralized and civil/political rights are tightly suppressed) and Non-Authoritarian Regimes (which include "Flawed Democracies" and "Hybrid Regimes" that maintain active political pluralism and electoral competition).

---

Authoritarian Regimes (31 Countries)
In these nations, institutional watchdogs classify the state as having severe restrictions on political opposition, heavy censorship, a dominant security state, or absolute control by a monarch, military junta, or ruling party.
Middle East & North Africa (MENA)

• Algeria
• Bahrain
• Egypt
• Iran
• Iraq
• Libya
• Morocco
• Oman
• Palestine
• Qatar
• Saudi Arabia
• Sudan
• Syria
• Tunisia
• United Arab Emirates
• Yemen

Asia & Central Asia

• Afghanistan
• Azerbaijan
• Brunei
• Kazakhstan
• Tajikistan
• Turkmenistan
• Uzbekistan

Sub-Saharan Africa

• Burkina Faso (under active military governance)
• Chad
• Djibouti
• Guinea
• Mali (under active military governance)
• Mauritania
• Niger (under active military governance)
• Somalia

---

Non-Authoritarian Regimes (20 Countries)
These countries are classified by international indices as Flawed Democracies or Hybrid/Transitioning Regimes. While many face institutional challenges, electoral hurdles, or issues with corruption, they feature functioning political opposition, regular competitive elections, and varying degrees of protected civil liberties.
Europe

• Albania (Flawed Democracy)
• Kosovo (Hybrid/Transitioning)

Asia & Central Asia

• Bangladesh (Hybrid/Transitioning)
• Indonesia (Flawed Democracy)
• Kyrgyzstan (Hybrid/Transitioning)
• Malaysia (Flawed Democracy)
• Maldives (Hybrid/Transitioning)
• Pakistan (Hybrid/Transitioning)

Middle East & North Africa (MENA)

• Jordan (Hybrid Regime)
• Kuwait (Constitutional Monarchy with active parliament)
• Lebanon (Flawed/Hybrid under a confessional power-sharing model)
• Turkey (Hybrid Regime / Competitive Authoritarianism)

Sub-Saharan Africa

• Comoros
• Gambia
• Guinea-Bissau
• Senegal
• Sierra Leone

---

Key Takeaway
The geopolitical split reveals that roughly 60% of Muslim-majority nations currently operate under fully authoritarian frameworks. The remaining 40% maintain structural spaces for political pluralism, citizen participation, and constitutional protections, proving that majority-Muslim populations live under a highly diverse spectrum of governance models.

 

[pood]

The people who have a problem with Israels actions don't seem to be able to come up with any kind of alternative realistic plan that will disarm Hamas for good.

The bombing and invasion did not disarm Hamas for good, but it did kill tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians. Is that the realistic part of that plan?

If you can't get what you want you'll have to settle for what you can get. Politics is the art of the possible. Its not an excercise in utopianism

So, you are saying that since Israel could not get the disarmament of Hamas they settled for killing thousands of civilians? That’s a political victory?

That's something antisemites keep saying. These people are racist scum and can be ignored IMHO. I don't care what racists think about anything.

So, it would folllow that you don’t care what you think about anything. Nice self-own.

 

[Tigers!]

There were a lot of Gazans rejoicing in their streets after 7/10. Hardly seems like they are not committed to endless violence.

How many is "a lot"? What proportion of the population was it, do you think?

One is one too many. Since Hamas does not allow anything what we could consider freedom of speech we do not know what proportion of Gazans rejoiced.
But if you have inside information I am all ears.

 

[Tigers!]

Killing 1200 and kidnapping > 200 is now just a provocation?

Where did you get the word "just" from?

In post no. 11,931 you said

Hamas chose to provoke a war.

They did. Totally unnecessary.

The vast majority of Palestinians were not consulted.

Do you mean Palestinians or Gazans? As was pointed out earlier the terms are not strictly interchangeable.
That is true and will stay that way until Hamas are removed from power.

And Israel didn't have to respond to that provocation with genocide;

You introduced the term provocation not I.

They have been provoked many times in the past without doing so.

When was the last time that 1200 Jews were killed in a morning? Hint in WW2.
You expect Israel not to respond to such a death toll? The government's job is to protect its people.

 

[ZiprHead]

Unless you haven't noticed, Muslim countries tend to be police states. Clearly there's something about the culture that keeps pushing these countries towards these kinds of governments. When Egypt had a free and fair election the Muslim Brotherhood (=police state) won an overwhelming majority.

Compared to what it had before the MB assumed government?

So what? Muslims aren't animals. They're not retarded sheeple. They're actual thinking humans. They have the same access to information as we do. You know that the developing world also has smart phones and Internet? They're not dumber than us.

You seem to have zero respect for Muslims.

Doesn't answer my question at all.

 

[Emily Lake]

I just did a Google search and it told me there about 50-53 Muslim majority countries in the world.

It then said;

Because “police state" is a political term rather than a formal academic classification, international monitoring organizations assess these characteristics—such as a dominant security apparatus, heavy government surveillance, and the suppression of civil liberties—using standardized categories like "Authoritarian Regimes" or "Not Free" status. [1]
According to data compiled by independent watchdogs like Freedom House and the Economist Intelligence Unit (EIU) Democracy Index, roughly 25 to 30 of the 50–53 Muslim-majority nations are officially classified under these highly restricted categories.

So around 50-60% might qualify.

I can paste in more of the Google response but I think this addresses my question.

Pretty much all of the muslim countries in the middle east and northern africa are extremely restrictive, and score very low for freedoms. There are a few in eastern europe as well as southeast asia that aren't quite as bad, but most are less free and more restrictive than europe, north america, australia, and NZ.

 

[Emily Lake]

Cultures aren't binary. They're continually evolving and adapting. Its a continuum. A persons culture is basically what values are good to have in order to be successful in that society. There's a huge variety out there. Ones culture can be different depending on social class, etc.

Muslims aren't a monolith. They're different depending on where they live. Muslims living in the west who are successful are of course well integrated. That means western values. As well there's resentful and bitter Muslims who try really hard to be good Muslims, but only get shit for it. There's all sorts.

Its completely normal for immigrants (or anyone really) to have several sets of conflicting values.

But there are some patterns. We can look at populations and draw conclusions. If a group of people keep doing something then that's information.

We can either see the failure of democracy in Muslim countries as super super bad luck. Or (more likely) a result of Muslim culture.

I think there's also a difference in assimilation tendencies depending on whether the muslims in question are voluntary immigrants who actually wanted to become americans (or germans or whatever), versus those who landed here as refugees or asylum seekers. The latter tend to hold more strongly to the culture of their original nations and try to keep it going in their destination country. The latter tend to already want to be part of the culture of their destination, which is why they moved here and sought citizenship in the first place.

 

[Emily Lake]

I just did a Google search and it told me there about 50-53 Muslim majority countries in the world.

It then said;

Because “police state" is a political term rather than a formal academic classification, international monitoring organizations assess these characteristics—such as a dominant security apparatus, heavy government surveillance, and the suppression of civil liberties—using standardized categories like "Authoritarian Regimes" or "Not Free" status. [1]
According to data compiled by independent watchdogs like Freedom House and the Economist Intelligence Unit (EIU) Democracy Index, roughly 25 to 30 of the 50–53 Muslim-majority nations are officially classified under these highly restricted categories.

So around 50-60% might qualify.

I can paste in more of the Google response but I think this addresses my question.

What are you doing? This is so desperate. Who is going to be convinced by that? I don't think you believe what you are writing. Because its so dumb.

I suggest you concede the statement and try to figure out why Muslim countries are in such a sad authoritatian state. It'll be a more productive conversation.

I don't think Shadowy Man is actually arguing with you on this.

I get it, it's often hard to tell, and this place is so combative it's easy to read everything as contention. I'm just not sure that's what's going on here.

 

[Emily Lake]

Indeed. And yet you seem to think that lumping "Palestinian", "Gazan", and "Hamas" together as a set of synonyms is somehow helpful. It's not.

What's the meaningful difference between palestinian and gazan?

Gazans are Palestinians, but not all Palestinians live in Gaza. For example. there are Palestinians living in the West Bank, in Jordan, in Lebanon, and the United States. Does that help?

Sure, I suppose. Just not sure that's a material distinction in this discussion. I think they're more or less interchangeable for this topic, and we can all reasonably assume that when someone says "palestinian" they're talking about the ones that live in gaza. Unless they specify otherwise of course.

 

[Emily Lake]

Nobody alive today can be this ignorant. So I don't think you are truly disagreeing. But I'm not sure what you are driving at?

My guess is he's looking for a technical gotcha. You know, like the democratic people's republic of north korea isn't communist because democratic is right there in the name? And you know, some countries with muslim majorities still manage to have a reasonable degree of freedom, like Albania.

Or maybe he wants a few facts along with that oversized plate of opinionating Dr Z likes to serve.

Yeah, following posts made that clear. The initial post read as oppositional though, so I get how DrZ ended up there. Subsequent post didn't seem as much of a set up for argument.

 

[Emily Lake]

I do not think Z would want to live in a Muslim majority country. You would not want to openly preach conversion to another religion or promote atheism. Or be critical of Islam.

In Saudi Arabia there is the death penalty for apostasy.

Or you know... be female.

 

[steve_bank]

I do not think Z would want to live in a Muslim majority country. You would not want to openly preach conversion to another religion or promote atheism. Or be critical of Islam.

In Saudi Arabia there is the death penalty for apostasy.

Or you know... be female.

Or gays.

Before all this current conflict in Iran there were roving morality police. A woman or a man could be beaten for improper dress. Their are a set of approved hair styles for men.

Afghani tn for women is horrible.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Nobody alive today can be this ignorant. So I don't think you are truly disagreeing. But I'm not sure what you are driving at?

My guess is he's looking for a technical gotcha. You know, like the democratic people's republic of north korea isn't communist because democratic is right there in the name? And you know, some countries with muslim majorities still manage to have a reasonable degree of freedom, like Albania.

Or maybe he wants a few facts along with that oversized plate of opinionating Dr Z likes to serve.

Yeah, following posts made that clear. The initial post read as oppositional though, so I get how DrZ ended up there. Subsequent post didn't seem as much of a set up for argument.

My initial post was in Response to DrZ saying “Muslim countries tend to be police states.” Then I asked him about the statistics of that statement (which I have now posted after a Google search) because although that does seem true to some middle eastern countries I wasn’t sure if that is a general rule and wanted to see the statistics on it. I didn’t view that as “oppositional” as you put it. DrZ then accused me of gross ignorance for not knowing what should be obvious to everyone in the world, followed by other inaccurate accusations. I do not have interest in arguing against the person, though, I just wanted to know the facts.

 

[pood]

It amazes me how long this idiocy has gone on.

To those reprobates here who condemn people here as being anti-Semitic, I’d say:

No one here is anti-Semitic.

We just don’t want Jews to do to others, what was evilly done to them.

Hard to follow?

 

[steve_bank]

That is actually the issue for me.

The oppressed Jews after attaining power quickly became the oppressor.

Given the WWII Nazi experience I would have thought there would have been some empathy for Palestinians as the Jewish state arose..

 

[DrZoidberg]

Cultures aren't binary. They're continually evolving and adapting. Its a continuum. A persons culture is basically what values are good to have in order to be successful in that society. There's a huge variety out there. Ones culture can be different depending on social class, etc.

Muslims aren't a monolith. They're different depending on where they live. Muslims living in the west who are successful are of course well integrated. That means western values. As well there's resentful and bitter Muslims who try really hard to be good Muslims, but only get shit for it. There's all sorts.

Its completely normal for immigrants (or anyone really) to have several sets of conflicting values.

But there are some patterns. We can look at populations and draw conclusions. If a group of people keep doing something then that's information.

We can either see the failure of democracy in Muslim countries as super super bad luck. Or (more likely) a result of Muslim culture.

I think there's also a difference in assimilation tendencies depending on whether the muslims in question are voluntary immigrants who actually wanted to become americans (or germans or whatever), versus those who landed here as refugees or asylum seekers. The latter tend to hold more strongly to the culture of their original nations and try to keep it going in their destination country. The latter tend to already want to be part of the culture of their destination, which is why they moved here and sought citizenship in the first place.

I think that is a middle-class vs working class difference.

The middle-class has never had a problem adapting for success. While the working class are often too proud to adapt

 

[DrZoidberg]

Nobody alive today can be this ignorant. So I don't think you are truly disagreeing. But I'm not sure what you are driving at?

My guess is he's looking for a technical gotcha. You know, like the democratic people's republic of north korea isn't communist because democratic is right there in the name? And you know, some countries with muslim majorities still manage to have a reasonable degree of freedom, like Albania.

Or maybe he wants a few facts along with that oversized plate of opinionating Dr Z likes to serve.

Yeah, following posts made that clear. The initial post read as oppositional though, so I get how DrZ ended up there. Subsequent post didn't seem as much of a set up for argument.

My initial post was in Response to DrZ saying “Muslim countries tend to be police states.” Then I asked him about the statistics of that statement (which I have now posted after a Google search) because although that does seem true to some middle eastern countries I wasn’t sure if that is a general rule and wanted to see the statistics on it. I didn’t view that as “oppositional” as you put it. DrZ then accused me of gross ignorance for not knowing what should be obvious to everyone in the world, followed by other inaccurate accusations. I do not have interest in arguing against the person, though, I just wanted to know the facts.

Its still obvious to everyone in the world. Including you, I think. I think you knew you were talking shit from your first reply. I think you thought you were being clever. Didn't work out.

How about we stop this childish nonsense and shift the discussion to why Muslim countries so often end up as authoritarian police states? The interesting discussion, imho.

 

[bilby]

I think, if Israel controls Gaza and south Lebanon, and Golan there's nowhere left for terrorists to launch rockets

Sure. Nowhere at all.

Oh, wait:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Iranian_strikes_on_Israel

In the 40 days from the start of the war through the 8 April ceasefire, there were a total of 650 missile attacks from Iran to Israel, the majority of which carried cluster munitions. About 16 of the missiles that made it past Israeli missile defenses carried conventional warheads, while 50 had cluster munitions. The attacks killed a total of 24 people, all of them civilians, and resulted in more than 7,000 injuries. Of the 24 civilians killed, 14 were struck by warheads with conventional explosive warheads and 10 were victims of cluster submunitions; two of the deaths were inside a sheltered space, with the other fatalities being people in unprotected areas.